Off Topic!, For all our "general" off topic tendencies Options

[devca]

Good question, Dev, and the answer depends on the size of the drops that are being described.

The high speed impact, mist-like drops that Lynne Herold is describing do not fly nearly as far as larger sized blood droplets. If Spector has droplets of blood on him that are larger in size, they would have survived the trip through the air for the longer distance of six to seven feet. A gun shot would result in mostly mist-like drops with some larger sized droplets as well.

Wound type, directionality and angle, type of trauma responsible for producing the spatter are all factors that need to be taken into account when answering that question. And yes, Dr. Henry Lee is the go to guy for blood spatter analysis. He practically invented the concept and has written several books on the subject.

How much blood was found on Spector's clothing, how large those droplets were and where on his clothing they landed are all factors to consider. Were there only a few larger sized droplets (2-3 mm), those would carry away from a gunshot wound. Were they found on the clothing of his torso or his legs? As the blood explodes away from the body the angle of trajectory would increase in size and they would probably hit farther down the body, rather than at 90 degree angles away from the site of the wound.

Why was he hit at all? I would imagine that the largest component of the spatter would be carried away from him, assuming he's shooting across a space of six to seven feet, toward the victim. If he's getting hit by back spatter, it may be either respiratory spray (larger in size than gun shot misting and coming from a severed trachea or bronchi) or it was arterial spurt, which can travel several feet.

There is an interesting tutorial on the IABPA website concerning blood spatter analysis that explains how to determine the position of a victim when spatter was produced. I haven't found anything that discusses exactly how far each of the different sized droplets is capable of moving through the air, although physics says the larger the drop the farther the distance because of momentum.

Linda

Thanks Linda,

That helps me understand better.
Trial in dark today for some reason.

All I can tell bout how he was hit is that the gun was in her
mouth and whether he was holding it there or she was when the trigger was pulled...
How he got a "mist like spray" on the sleeves and lapels has the two experts in tizzy.

As I quoted before the prosecution insists he did it and
he was standing 2-3 feet from her. Which is difficult for me to
visualize if the gun was in her mouth.

We are still waiting for Dr Lee to testify but he is under a cloud
for allegedly removing evidence from the scene and not sharing
with the DA office.

Curiouser and curiouser.

Dev

[Mari Welsh]

I don't usually enter the Message Boards through the 'Show Home', but when I got here on June 23rd, I noticed the Law&Order:CI page on the show listing was going to the mothership page, and the CI page on the L&O portal was similarly affected, so I PMd Supreme Mod NBCSkampy. I notice all is back to normal and the CI page is restored, so I wanted to publicly thank NBCSkampy for her attention to the matter, and once again thank her and the Board Mods and the NBC.com staffers for their attention after the spamming, and to fixing our show board. Thank You!!
Mari (heading back to bed)

[stefanl]

The lightning bugs are here!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually, they've been around for a couple or three weeks just before sunset, but they're still blipping and lighting even late at night. I see them every morning when I'm out with the dog and it's 3 or 4.

Try this nifty adult version of running around the yard swooping them out of the air and into a mayonnaise jar. David Attenborough did it in one of his nature documentaries once and it blew me away that it worked. Practice by yourself before you try it in front of skeptics so you get the timing down. You'll need a small flashlight, the kind you might have on a keychain works well. Hopefully it won't be too terribly bright. If it is, try covering it with a layer of masking tape or colored cellophane or plastic wrap to douse the brightness.

FYI: lightning bugs are lighting up to attract mates; and, occasionally to attract dinner. Some will mimic the light pattern of other species, capture and eat the unfortunate Romeo that responds. Hey, they gotta eat!

Sit quietly and pay attention to the pattern, the timing and the time between sets of flashes the lightning bugs make when they light up. Flash the light in that same pattern. If you get the times and patterns correct, within three or four flashes a hopeful lothario should be hovering near you. Your friends will be blown away. If you direct it down into the palm of your hand, he may just use you as a landing pad.

Most cool.

[peachybc]

LOVE lightning bugs! They've been out here for a few weeks.

Several years ago we got a treat. In the lower portion of our backyard, there were thousands and thousands of lightning bugs. They were only a foot to eighteen inches off the ground. We spied this phenomenon from our deck and walked back to where they all were. Pitch black out except for this section of our yard where the lightning bug convention was happening. It was spectacular, magical! We felt like we were in a fairyland with them all there lighting up! It was quite a treat! I don't know why they were all there and it's not happened again.

Peachy

[stefanl]

Pharoah Queen's Mummy Identified

This is from the CNN website. Although they don't explain whose DNA they used for the final analysis to compare the DNA from the mummy to. So? They've got DNA from the mummy. Don't you need someone else's DNA for a reverse paternity/maternity test? I'm confuzzled.

CAIRO, Egypt (AP) -- Egyptian authorities using DNA analysis and a tooth identified Wednesday a mummy found a century ago as the remains of pharaoh Queen Hatshepsut.

The mummy was discovered in Egypt's Valley of the Kings burial ground in 1903, but had not been identified as that of the queen and was left on site until two months ago when it was brought to the Cairo Museum for testing, said Egypt's antiquities chief Zahi Hawass.

"We are one hundred percent certain" the mummy belongs to Hatshepsut, Hawass told The Associated Press.

He said DNA and other scientific testing of a tooth found in a relic box containing some of the missing queen's organs had allowed Egyptologists to confirm that the unidentified mummy was in fact Hatshepsut.

A woman monarch who called herself a pharaoh and dressed like a man, Hatshepsut ruled over Egypt during the 15th century B.C.

During her famed 18th Dynasty rule, she wielded more power than Cleopatra or Nefertiti. But when her rule ended, all traces of her mysteriously disappeared, including her mummy.

Another mummy, which had been in the Cairo Museum for decades and was long believed to be the queen's wet nurse was initially investigated as possibly being Hatshepsut herself.

But Hawass said Wednesday that a different mummy brought back to Cairo two months ago was in fact identified as the pharaoh queen.

[Mari Welsh]

Don't be confuzzled, oh teacher of the young and not yet jaded....the DNA comparison will be with her grandmother, Amos Neferteri. They are doing mitochondrial sequences even as we speak...they already have the preliminary results. This is a huge deal, of such import to Egyptian archaeology, I am overjoyed. Ma'atKaRa Hatshepsut was a singularity, the woman Pharoah who guided Egypt through a stunning period of history, I would compare her to Elizabeth the First of England. A good potted history, at this link, and a great picture of her mortuary temple in Deir el Bahri Egyptology Online-Hatshepsut.(lots of vendors out front, and some great shade inside, aside from the Egyptological reasons for being there....a nice camel named Isfahan too, who gave me a big kiss...) Good thing this is OT!
Mari

[stefanl]

Don't be confuzzled, oh teacher of the young and not yet jaded....the DNA comparison will be with her grandmother, Amos Neferteri. They are doing mirtochondrial sequences even as we speak...they already have the preliminary results. This is a huge deal, of such import to Egyptian archaeology, I am overjoyed. Ma'atKaRa Hatshepsut was a singularity, the woman Pharoah who guided Egypt through a stunning period of history, I would compare her to Elizabeth the First of England. A good potted history, at this link, and a great picture of her mortuary temple in Deir el Bahri Egyptology Online-Hatshepsut.(lots of vendors out front, and some great shade inside, aside from the Egyptological reasons for being there....a nice camel named Isfahan too, who gave me a big kiss...) Good thing this is OT!
Mari

I know this is huge but they never bothered to explain where the comparison DNA would have come from, just that they had it. Mitochondrial is big stuff too. Definitely links her to her grandmother with that! Would Amos Neferteri by any chance have been her maternal grandmother?

Just saw something about a month ago on Discover Science about the lost pharoah queen and was quite impressed by her grasp of politics and how she held herself as a woman in a man's world. What an amazing woman.

Now about the camel...

[abfirefighterchi...]

LOVE lightning bugs! They've been out here for a few weeks.

Several years ago we got a treat. In the lower portion of our backyard, there were thousands and thousands of lightning bugs. They were only a foot to eighteen inches off the ground. We spied this phenomenon from our deck and walked back to where they all were. Pitch black out except for this section of our yard where the lightning bug convention was happening. It was spectacular, magical! We felt like we were in a fairyland with them all there lighting up! It was quite a treat! I don't know why they were all there and it's not happened again.

Peachy

I love lightning bugs as well. They are quite common in Pennsylvania. When I was a kid my uncle brought his then wife back home. He had met her while stationed in Germany. When she saw lightning bugs, she was terrified!! She actually thought they would burn her! Of course she also walked into a Kmart type store and was amazed by how many choices we had in shampoos, laundry soap etc. She said that in Germany there were only one maybe two choices in anything to choice from. Granted this was in the mid-80's so that may have changed.

[DonnaLucy]

Some very sad, personal news.

Today I had to put down my 12 year old grey tabby. His name was Sticker. He was doing fine for his age, but suddenly he couldn't walk, eat , or drink. He was practically lifeless. We rushed him to the vet, who explained he was having heart failure. There wasn't anything they could do, so my three children and I all put our hands on him as the vet gently euthanized him with an injection. Right now we're all in a state of shock.

My kids did not want to bury him, so we are having him cremated & his ashes brought home. Not sure what we will do with them, but it will be a family decision. My kids were 8, 7 & 5 years old when we got Sticker as a tiny kitten. They don't remember life without him, so its rough.

Has anyone ever had to put down a beloved pet? How long does the sadness last? I can't believe how upset I am, I can't stop crying.

[peachybc]

Oh Donna...

I'm so very sorry to read this. Putting a beloved pet down is one of the hardest tasks a person must do. We've had to go through this so many, many times with all of our beloved older pets. It rips your heart out, even knowing you're doing the right thing, the kind thing.

There is no time limit, Donna. Each person grieves in their own way and in their own time. Each loss is painful, each pet a cherished family member. Time does ease the pain and recalling wonderful, happy memories helps as well. And for us...there was always the need to bring another pet into our home to love and care for another critter who needed us...as much as we needed them.


My love to you and your family!
Peachy

[stefanl]

Some very sad, personal news.

Today I had to put down my 12 year old grey tabby. His name was Sticker. He was doing fine for his age, but suddenly he couldn't walk, eat , or drink. He was practically lifeless. We rushed him to the vet, who explained he was having heart failure. There wasn't anything they could do, so my three children and I all put our hands on him as the vet gently euthanized him with an injection. Right now we're all in a state of shock.

My kids did not want to bury him, so we are having him cremated & his ashes brought home. Not sure what we will do with them, but it will be a family decision. My kids were 8, 7 & 5 years old when we got Sticker as a tiny kitten. They don't remember life without him, so its rough.

Has anyone ever had to put down a beloved pet? How long does the sadness last? I can't believe how upset I am, I can't stop crying.

I had to have my basset hound, Sigmund, put to sleep years ago because his quality of life was just not what it could have been. He was deteriorating rapidly. He had difficulty moving, couldn't eat, couldn't walk or play. Everything that he loved to do was slowly being taken away from him as his body became weaker and weaker. Those sweet, sad hound dog eyes looking up to me to help him, to make him better. I had to do what I did for him. My feelings of loneliness couldn't factor into the decision. His importance to me as a companion was more than I could express. Letting him go was harder than anything else I had ever had to do because I was there the moment he was born. He was my best boy for 14 years.

How long will the sadness last? I cried for days. When I thought I was better, I took out all of pictures of Sig that I could find and cried all over again. But then it was because of all of the wonderful memories I had of him. Remembering him when he was younger and stronger. His old, normal regular, snorty, noisy, goofy self.

Donna, my heart is breaking for you. You'll get better; but, please, give yourself the time that you need to heal.

Linda

[abfirefighterchi...]

What Peachy and Linda said. There is no easy solution, other than to let all your emotions whatever they are come out in their own time. If you need to cry, then cry. Pets are family and you mourn for them the same. You did what was the kind loving thing to do. It is my belief that our pets go to heaven too. So you will see Sticker again.

Now he can run and play like he did when he was a kitten. Remember how much he loved you and your family, and that because of you he had a wonderful life full of love and affection. It will take time to learn how to live around the loss, but slowly you will be able to feel more the love and memories rather than just the grief, and emptiness.

My heart breaks for you and your family. If you need to vent your feelings or share some memories you feel free. We are our own little family here, we will be here for you Donna.

Angy

[Mari Welsh]

Oh Donna, I am so sorry! There is nothing to say that can truly help, and I know exactly how you feel. I watched Susie and Fam struggle, and hoped in vain that they would improve, Lou and Chester died on their own, and Sultan struggled to walk long after he should not have kept trying, my Grandma made the right decision to end his suffering. I would have taken all the pain myself in a heartbeat with no regrets, in the end that is what you had to do. You did what could be done for Sticker, because you loved him and wanted what was best for him. He knows that. There was a funny thing about the pain. It made me angry, angry at all the time I had not been able to spend with them because I was doing something else, angry at the people who thought it was 'only a cat', angry at the world because it kept on spinning, but my world had just been destroyed.
Then there was guilt, that if I had noticed someting sooner, then more could have been done, then everything was so empty, the house was lifeless, and nothing stopped the tears.
Then when I thought of them, it wasn't the end that I thought about, it was something else, something that made me smile. Something that they did that was their trick to make me laugh, or cage a treat from me. Then I would cry again, but the smile could persist through the tears. Then the smiles came more often, the tears did too, but they were even.
I still cry for them. Not for them, that's not true. They are safe, happy and eternal, and I will see them again. I cry because I miss them. I laugh and smile when I think of them, or I can tell someone about them, but I still cry because I miss them. It becomes part of the fabric of life, it becomes strength to go on.
Linda and Peachy are right, the time is your own pace, and you and your kids will work that out together, for yourselves. There isn't a right and wrong timeline.
You all love him, and he loves you, there is no time that is beholden to that.
Mari

[DonnaLucy]

Peachy, Linda, Angy & Mari..

Thank you so much for your wonderful comforting words. It's funny how I wanted to tell you about it. We are a strange little group, aren't we?

Well, I have to go out tonight for my son's basketball game. He wasn't sure about playing, but his team needs him & he needs us to root him on. So I hope I can sit there with my sports mom friends & not burst into tears. We'll see.

Again, thank you all. It helps, really it does.

[whyaskwhy]

Peachy, Linda, Angy & Mari..

Thank you so much for your wonderful comforting words. It's funny how I wanted to tell you about it. We are a strange little group, aren't we?

Well, I have to go out tonight for my son's basketball game. He wasn't sure about playing, but his team needs him & he needs us to root him on. So I hope I can sit there with my sports mom friends & not burst into tears. We'll see.

Again, thank you all. It helps, really it does.

DonnaLucy,

I'm so sorry for your loss. Everything that everyone has said is exactly right. You'll grieve for Sticker in your own time and eventually the fond memories will overtake the consuming sadness you feel right now. And having people who understand how you feel is a tremendous help. I found it very comforting to have friends who understood the loss of a beloved pet.

We lost our cat Taz last October. We'd had her for 13 years, from the time she was so small she could fit in the palm of my hand. She'd had some health issues when she was about 8 and we nearly lost her then until the vet finally diagnosed her with diabetes. With the regular insulin and the special food, she got better and regained the haughty sense of entitlement that was her regular persona. When she got sick again, it was intestinal cancer and there was nothing that could be done. So we made the inevitable decision. I came home and cried for three days.

You'll always miss him but that overwhelming sadness will lessen. We dealt with it by remembering the funny and goofy things she did. She once, as a kitten, dragged an entire steak off my dad's plate when he left it unattended on the table. Another time, the curiosity of what was inside the kleenex box got the better of her and she got her head stuck inside it. So the crying turned to fond laughter. Eventually. There's no hard and fast timeframe. Just give yourself the time you need.

We had Taz cremated. I was unsure about this at the time but I'm very glad now that we chose that route. Her ashes were placed in a small tasteful wooden frame that has space for a picture of her. It's quite understated and frankly, people don't even realize what it is unless we tell them. We put her in a special place and now, with the passage of time, I smile when I see 'Taz's house' (as we call it) rather than cry. I know it probably seems impossible right now that this would ever be a pleasant reminder of a special friend, but it really has become that for us. I say good morning to her each day.

My thoughts are with you and your family and Sticker.

[DonnaLucy]

Thank you, whyaskwhy, for the beautiful words. It helps to hear how others have handled this surprisingly intense grief. I didn't expect to be so devastated, since Sticker was older and animals don't live forever.

I like your mention of the picture frame/ ash holder. Would that be something I could purchase at a pet store? Or maybe on line? If you are able, please let me know where you got yours.

And to everyone who shared their own painful stories - I can't thank you enough.

And I am so sorry for your losses.

[whyaskwhy]

Hi DonnaLucy,

I think it's hard no matter how or when it happens. I'm not sure whether you can purchase the holders through pet stores. Our vet arranged the order of the holder for us through this place. They are Toronto based and don't seem to have online ordering, but there is contact info. I imagine they'd ship everywhere but if you do decide to go with them and shipping is a problem, pm me and we can arrange something.

I did a quick search to see if I could find others with online ordering capabilities.
1.Pets Forever This one also seems to have distributors across the U.S.
2. Speciality Pet products. PA based.
(While cost is probably the last thing on your mind right now, the latter two seem more reasonably priced than the Toronto one.)

I hope it helps. I'm with Angy in the belief that pets go to heaven too, so we'll send a message to our dear pets to give Sticker a great big welcome.

[Ruby-Red]

Some very sad, personal news.

Today I had to put down my 12 year old grey tabby. His name was Sticker. He was doing fine for his age, but suddenly he couldn't walk, eat , or drink. He was practically lifeless. We rushed him to the vet, who explained he was having heart failure. There wasn't anything they could do, so my three children and I all put our hands on him as the vet gently euthanized him with an injection. Right now we're all in a state of shock.

My kids did not want to bury him, so we are having him cremated & his ashes brought home. Not sure what we will do with them, but it will be a family decision. My kids were 8, 7 & 5 years old when we got Sticker as a tiny kitten. They don't remember life without him, so its rough.

Has anyone ever had to put down a beloved pet? How long does the sadness last? I can't believe how upset I am, I can't stop crying.

First of all *hug*

Putting a pet to sleep is absolutely heartbreaking. We had to put our German Shepherd down nearly five years ago, she was 12 years old and we got her before we had our kids. She almost died from a womb condition but pulled through a dangerous operation before making a full recovery and it was a tumour that killed her. We were all devastated because she was such an integral part of our lives. When my husband worked nightshift, she was my company and she was great at getting rid of unwanted salespeople (she was a pussycat in real life, so soft and sweet). We were all in shock for a while, my hubby and myself especially and yes, we cried. We had lost a member of our family so those feelings of bereavement were very, very real and painful. We still miss her a lot even now but now we talk about her with love and affection. She was irreplaceable and we've never gotten another pet since we lost her.

I hope you'll all begin to feel better soon

[DonnaLucy]

Ruby,

Thank you for sharing your story with me about losing your German Shepard. My husband also works late, and in the evenings when my kids are out being kids & having fun with their friends, Sticker & I would hang out together. I think I will miss him more than anyone will.

whyaskwhy,

Those websites are great! When I get Sticker's ashes back, I will order one of the little frame holders. I have to see how big the ash container is first.

Thank you so much for hooking me up. I had no idea such items existed.

[krodgers]

Heads Up!!! Fred Thompson on a marathon of L&O today, started at 12 noon!! He could be our next President!! He will, We need to support Fred!! He's an alumni of L&O!! He has my support for sure!!!