Do you think it is right for Conan O'Brien to be a SCAB and cross the picket line?, Conan O'Brien crossed a picket line of his writers to dance around Options

[Conan_the_shooti...]

I'm still asking why Conan's return was necessary and wish he would've addressed that. As I've said before, I don't think NBC ever extended an ultimatum to Conan saying he must return to the air or they'd fire his non-striking staff. Back when Jay & Conan's plans to return without writers were announced, Conan was quoted as saying: "I am left with a difficult decision. Either go back to work and keep my staff employed or stay dark and allow 80 people, many of whom have worked for me for fourteen years, to lose their jobs."
I am doubtful that if Conan would've stayed off the air, those 80 people would've literally lost their jobs/been fired. There was never anything about such an ultimatum reported on the strike-related websites, which have been posting the less-than-humane memos sent to employees of various shows/networks. When I read Conan's statement, I thought he was exaggerating the truth (about the 80 people who were laid off) to make a better case for his coming back without writers, thinking that those of us reading it wouldn't know any better.

(For comparison, Jay Leno was quoted on the same day as saying: "Now that the talks have broken down and there are no further negotiations scheduled I feel it's my responsibility to get my 100 non-writing staff, which were laid off, back to work." Leno's statement was more straightforward and didn't imply that his staff was at imminent risk of being fired.)

I'm not Conan and I don't know his motives or the details of what goes on between him, NBC, his staff, and his writers. Letterman found the "option B" and respectably returned with writers (and enabled Craig Ferguson to do the same), although the circumstances surrounding the ownership of those shows are different than those at NBC. Maybe Conan could've continued to do what he was doing until NBC execs decided they didn't like the advantage that the Late Show and Late Late Show had with new scripted shows on CBS against their rerun h.ell of the Tonight Show and Conan and would've decided it might be worthwhile to negotiate with the WGA. Too late now.
(The Worldwide Pants [Letterman] deal hadn't been made at the time when Conan & Leno announced they'd return to the air without writers, but there'd been talk that such a deal was in the works, and it was finally made within a few days of Conan & Leno's announcements.)

I totally agree, and Conan even addressed this in the New Yorker when he said, "These shows are the organizing principles of our lives, and the moment they stop you start to go insane." His wife has said (I'm paraphrasing): "I fear the day when you don't have your own TV show" and I think most people in Conan's life probably think along the same lines.

It wouldn't have to be as extreme and reckless as running the show into the ground. Like I said, if Conan went out there and did interviews (only), I'd be happier. I'd at least like for him to not do work that the writers ordinarily do or dabble in anything that the writers started (like WTR).

The other side of the argument is that if a good amount of people still tune in and enjoy the show and even say the show is better without writers, it doesn't need writers, or that scripted shows (like Letterman's) are stale in comparison and thus undermine the writers' cause, couldn't you envision NBC possibly considering cutting some of the writers when the strike is settled? Or when 2009 rolls around?

For the last couple of years, some people have speculated that NBC still may not give Conan the Tonight Show despite his having signed a contract and them owing him $40 million if they back out of the deal. As you said, Letterman thought the Tonight Show was a sure thing for him; then look at what happened. I honestly don't know if a concern with bending to and pleasing NBC makes a difference one way or the other in Conan's future.

And I do appreciate Conan's beard and that it's a way of "wearing" his support for the writers / proof that he's gone through puberty despite all his jokes about not being able to grow facial hair. I also think it's attractive. But I don't think a beard makes Conan the WGA's advocate of the year.

OMG pleaseee Conan's beard has got to go. It's ugly and a little depressing And since like you stated so matter of factly, "...I don't think a beard makes Conan the WGA's advocate..."

In regards to David letterman, since he never had a contract from NBC and Conan does, it is different. And absolutely Conan O'Brien will get the Tonight show!!! OMG Conan is a gold mine for NBC. They must see it too.
Not only is Conan a great comedian and writer, but he is a gifted interviewer as well. That's the killer right there... His knowledge about everything is amazing and so quick on his feet, with his BIG BRAIN, - and how he never lets his guest down, he protects them and helps then shine.
It is a must in this business.
Also, I read Jeff Zucker confirm Conan is taking over the tonight show in several articles which he has never done before. It's definitely a done deal ...

I'm just saying if Conan does something extremely stupid like sabotage his own show like you suggested to get low ratings, omg that is suicide in the business... doing something crazy like that would hurt his future. He is too smart to let that happen. PERIOD. I think that is why David Letterman is shaving off his beard. It is bad for the ratings and a sore eye for the viewers to look at, The shows must please the comsumer, to get the high ratings and what do they want at late night??
Weary, overworked, jadded Viewers just want to be Entertained...




Also, I think Conan on his first show back explained clearly why he had to go back and do his show!!!
Direct Quotes from his Jan 2 Show:

"Appearing with his own full-grown "strike beard," O'Brien wasted little time in expressing solidarity with striking writers. "Let's talk for a minute about the situation we find ourselves in," O'Brien began. "As you know, two months ago, the Writers Guild of America went out on strike and we took our show, Late Night with Conan O'Brien, off the air in support of the writers. This has been a tough time not only for our show, but for a lot of people in the entertainment industry. Good people right now are out of work. And possibly worse, with all of the late-night shows off the air, Americans have been forced to read books and occasionally even speak to one another, which has been horrifying.

"We're back now but, sadly, we do not have our writers with us. I want to make this clear, I support their cause -- these are very talented, very creative people who work extremely hard and I believe what they're asking for is fair. My biggest wish is that they get a great deal very quickly and get back here because we desperately need them on the show. Think about it: Triumph the Insult Comic Dog, The Masturbating Bear, The Walker Texas Ranger Lever -- it's all writing. Well, not The Masturbating Bear. That's just instinct. Which brings us to the big $64,000 question of the evening: What do we do now?"

[latenightgoddess]

if Conan screws over his show and "runs his show to the ground" like you suggested... I ask you seriously... what do you think the AMPTP/NBC would do to Conan? They already have a prime contender for his replacement in 2009. And if Conan jerks over NBC for the writers... WELL you got the picture. Conan must walk the fine line of pleasing his NBC bosses, his fans and the writers... or he may blow his future.

And absolutely Conan O'Brien will get the Tonight show!!! OMG Conan is a gold mine for NBC. Also, I read Jeff Zucker confirm Conan is taking over the tonight show in several articles which he has never done before. It's definitely a done deal ...

So you essentially think the Tonight Show is definitely a done deal for Conan UNLESS Conan does anything that could potentially inspire the AMPTP to want to negotiate with WGA.

I think Conan on his first show back explained clearly why he had to go back and do his show!!! ... "Good people right now are out of work."

Good people such as the people who write Conan's show and the writers and support staffs of the majority of TV shows. Why did Conan feel entitled to do his show without his writers? Why was his return necessary? That was not addressed. And I don't care for the "everybody else (in late night) was/is doing it" excuse to defend Conan.

Weary, overworked, jadded Viewers just want to be Entertained...

Once again proving that self-interest and a lack of knowledge/concern/show of support for the writers could quite possibly trump them in this strike.

[Conan_the_shooti...]

So you essentially think the Tonight Show is definitely a done deal for Conan UNLESS Conan does anything that could potentially inspire the AMPTP to want to negotiate with WGA.

Good people such as the people who write Conan's show and the writers and support staffs of the majority of TV shows. Why did Conan feel entitled to do his show without his writers? Why was his return necessary? That was not addressed. And I don't care for the "everybody else (in late night) was/is doing it" excuse to defend Conan.

Once again proving that self-interest and a lack of knowledge/concern/show of support for the writers could quite possibly trump them in this strike.

So you essentially think the Tonight Show is definitely a done deal for Conan UNLESS Conan does anything that could potentially inspire the AMPTP to want to negotiate with WGA.

No this is this, and that is that... Conan needs to cover his own butt, to protect his show so the writers will have a place to work when the strike is finished.
Why do you put so much weight on Conan, as if his show will make or break the writers strike. You are always boo hissing and targeting Conan like he is the bad guy to the strikers and that is disheartening.


I will tell you this, you think Conan hasn't done enough to support the writers during his show! I talked to some people yesterday and they said i wonder if conan really can't write and hides behind his writers because, clearly leno is doing it all and Conan seems to be unable to do anything but sing and spin his ring on the desk. sigh

I was so upset about that because I know Conan can write his own stuff and amazingly, but he won't because of the strike but some viewers think it is because he doesn't have the talent to do so.
So I wish you would stop blaming Conan for the strike still going on . He is doing plenty to support them.

LNG I need to get back to work. Chat with you later... bye

[latenightgoddess]

Why do you put so much weight on Conan, as if his show will make or break the writers strike.

Conan seems to act like he's insignificant, that what he talks about/does or fails to talk about/do to help the writers means nothing. I think everybody who's out there crossing the picket line to do a show is making a big statement and has a pretty big voice and stake in how things turn out.
Hopefully the writers will still have a place on Conan's show when the strike is finished, but will they be welcomed back (by the audience)? Or will people be upset that they have to watch sketches instead of getting to see Conan being spontaneous and singing and playing and gallivanting around?

I was so upset about that because I know Conan can write his own stuff and amazingly, but he won't because of the strike but some viewers think it is because he doesn't have the talent to do so.

I'd say one reason people might assume that is because Conan has failed to acknowledge any of the actual issues of the WGA strike including that he is a WGA member and thus ethically can't write his own stuff while the strike is going on.

[vicarious122]

I watch Conan nearly every night - I have for years now. Love the show. I must say that these last few shows have been great because of their unpredictability. It has suggested to me that the writing staff allowed the show to become stale by repeating the same bits over and over and over again. That's not to say I don't love many of those segments - I do. But I think the show needed this, regardless of when the writers come back. I know they won't be able to keep this up forever with them, but I am enjoying the change of pace. I hope it continues upon their return.

As for Conan being a scab? Nonsense. I have never been a fan of unions because they discourage individualism and personal liberty. People should be able to negotiate their own wages in my estimation, and if Conan wants to cross the "picket line," he should. I don't see any "morality" in this situation. Unions aren't deities. They're groups of people making decisions, and Conan can do whatever he wants. I admire that he's supporting the rest of his staff by coming back, and it seems perfectly logical. They are greater in numbers than the writers. Why should they lose their jobs because of a union that they don't belong to? I don't want to get into the logistics of the strike, but I think many in the WGA are being unreasonable. So are the producers. I just can't stand how the strikers are being painted as saints while holding their art hostage. Oh well.

Keep at it Conan!!!

[latenightgoddess]

if Conan wants to cross the "picket line," he should. I don't see any "morality" in this situation.

Conan having to choose between showing loyalty and support to the 80 non-writers who work for him and showing loyalty and support to the 15 people who are responsible for ~50% of the content of his show on an ordinary night, and thus producing undesirable consequences for one party, would by definition qualify as an ethical dilemma. He was admirably able to support both parties for the first 2 months of the strike but for some reason didn't continue thereafter. I'm pretty sure the non-writers' jobs still would've been there had Conan stayed off the air until the writers got a fair deal (which I think could've been sooner if he'd resisted the temptation to go back when he did.... but that's speculation and we can never know what might've happened.)

I don't want to get into the logistics of the strike, but I think many in the WGA are being unreasonable.

Letterman's side deal with the WGA proved that the WGA negotiates and is reasonable... how could that be any clearer?

I'm so glad I decided to watch The Daily Show since Jon Stewart made me org@sm multiple times. I am in favor of the 45 year old Jewish male. What he did with his show (making it almost entirely a platform to talk about the strike) was what I wish Conan would do, but times 1000. But Stewart has a topical, political show to begin with so I guess it's easier for him. Stewart even said he'd attempted to make a side deal with the WGA despite not owning his show. Colbert also did well with leaving out words at the top of the show along with "The Word", doing satire about why he hates unions, and ending the show with "Writers: I'll see you in my dreams." It was nice to see that my fantasies of unabashed WGA advocation can/will be fulfilled despite having to look to someone other than Conan. Both shows had guests who could objectively analyze the situation and talked about why unions are important and displayed how what the WGA is asking for is reasonable. Stewart and Colbert actually vindicated their being out there without writers, and I imagine they'll continue to do so until their writers return. I think those two combined will save me from complete madness.

[Conan_the_shooti...]

quote name='LateNightGoddess' date='Jan 7 2008, 10:49 PM'
"Conan having to choose between showing loyalty and support to the 80 non-writers who work for him and showing loyalty and support to the 15 people who are responsible for ~50% of the content of his show on an ordinary night, and thus producing undesirable consequences for one party, would by definition qualify as an ethical dilemma. He was admirably able to support both parties for the first 2 months of the strike but for some reason didn't continue thereafter. I'm pretty sure the non-writers' jobs still would've been there had Conan stayed off the air until the writers got a fair deal (which I think could've been sooner if he'd resisted the temptation to go back when he did.... but that's speculation and we can never know what might've happened."

LNG you seem so pleased with Stewart and Colbert last night performance and yet they came back to do their show, WITHOUT WRITERS just one week after Conan and without strike beards, when their whole show is written!!! Where as Conan's is not. What gives???
Also Some writers were upset about it too.
...............................................................

Comedy Central ordered Stewart and Colbert back to the air after late-night hosts from the broadcast nets were similarly instructed to return.

Earlier in the day, a small group of about 30 striking writers from the WGA East each turned out to picket in front of the two Manhattan studios where the hosts tape their shows. Late-night writers were not asked to picket.

Some of Stewart's early bits appeared polished -- Colbert noted in the hand-off that he was alarmed because "you seem way too prepared" and threatened to call the WGA -- and strike observers will likely be watching the WGA's reaction closely.

But several writers said privately they were confused by Stewart's jokes as well as the fact that they seemed written, and the WGA, as it did with Jay Leno, may be forced to balance the use of Stewart as a spokesman against potential member backlash.

..........................................................................
Again, Colbert and Jon Stewart said they had to come back to do their shows just like Conan w/o writers claiming they were forced into it.

As far as Colbert and Stewart, dedicating more of their time to the writers strike, well it's a cable channel, and not a network station, where they have more freedom to do what they like then the censored network like NBC.
However, I do not expect them to dedicate all or most of their shows to the writers strike on future shows.
Already I've seen articles complaining about this.
................................................................................
..........................................
http://www.usatoday.com/life/television/re...t-colbert_N.htm

"The night before the New Hampshire primary, and what does Jon Stewart talk about?
Jon Stewart.

That can't really be why we missed him.

Returning writer- and virtually humor-free to his Comedy Central series, The Daily Show, Stewart devoted most of his 30 minutes Monday night to the writers' strike. Odds are, every time the presidential candidates made some gaffe or goof over the past two months, Stewart fans were wishing he was around to point it out.

And then he comes back and he pays virtually no attention to the presidential race at all. The first jokes: the strike. The guest: labor expert Ron Seeber, to talk about the strike.

FIND MORE STORIES IN: Comedy Central | Jon Stewart | Daily Show | Colbert Report | Andrew Sullivan
Without any apparent irony, Stewart did make a comment about how hard it was to be the host of a show known for mocking politicians and be off the air when there was so much to mock. The statement was accompanied by a fast clip of Mike Huckabee appearing at a rally with Chuck Norris and a joke linking Iowa to New Hampshire. ("Cold white people have had their say.")

And then it was back to the strike.

It's not unusual, when a problem or subject consumes us, to assume everyone is as consumed as we are. But when you're being paid to entertain, the least you can do is put some effort into making your obsessions amusing.

Stewart's goal, instead, was to educate us on the union's goals, with a side lesson on what he apparently sees as the union's unfair treatment of The Daily Show. Even if viewers were interested *******and my guess is most viewers have no great interest in the strike beyond "when will it end?" and "what's going to happen to 24?" ******* couldn't it wait until after the primary was over?

Generally, The Daily Show is the better of the Comedy Central duo, but last night, the prize went to The Colbert Report.

Yes, there was strike talk at Colbert, but it took a distant second place to politics. And as is usually the case with Stephen Colbert, it was just an opportunity for the host to parody the right-wing fringe.

Like Stewart, Colbert interviewed a labor expert. But he did so at the end of the show, after he had already talked to writer Andrew Sullivan about Barack Obama. And both interviews, like the show itself, were funnier than anything Stewart had to offer.

Tonight, if we're lucky, The Daily Show will focus on national politics and leave TV politics behind.

As for the strike, here's what we want from both sides: Talk to each other, and for the love of heaven, stop talking to us."

[oregondani]

I'm so sick of hearing people call someone who goes to work and does his job a scab. Conan has a contract with NBC to do a job. Because the writers chose to walk off the job, doesn't mean Conan or any other worker at Late Night owes them anything.

I work at a company as a salaried employee that also has union workers. From my experience, the union does nothing but try to intimidate those workers into believing that management is against them. We have union workers who have been found repeatedly sleeping on the job, rampant drug use and all types of violations of company policies. But it's almost impossible to fire those people because the union stands up for them. Even their co-workers want them fired. But the almighty union doesn't want to take the chance of losing any members and will fight for someone who isn't worth keeping. Is that what unions are supposed to be about? I don't think so.

The writers may have some legitimate complaints about their compensation. If I have complaints about my compensation, I talk to my superiors. If I don't feel like I'm treated fairly, I'm free to find another job where my services will be more fairly compensated.

NBC or any other company should be able to pay their employees what they want. If it's not up to par, then they won't have the best writers, which in turn will hurt their product in the long run. It's called free enterprise folks. That's what America is all about!

I just don't get why it's legal to team up and threaten to harm a company or even put it out of business if a group of workers don't get what they want. Isn't that a form of extortion?

Maybe those who throw out those "scab" comments should examine why they think they are entitled to do such damage. (Not to mention what it does to the others who aren't on strike)

Finally, someone I actually agree with on this post. From my experience with other Unions, I find what you say to be true. Unions don't really care about their members, as much as they care about themselves, and a lot of times rather than strengthening the workforce, it weakens it. I applaud Conan for going on with his show...he does have enough talent to carry the show. I don't feel like the show's boring without the writers (sorry). I'm sure the writers that are on strike aren't exactly welfare recipients. Not to say they don't deserve raises, but really. If you don't think you're making enough at your job, find a new one! That's what us non-union folks do!

[EyeJelly]

I don't think NBC ever extended an ultimatum to Conan saying he must return to the air or they'd fire his non-striking staff. Back when Jay & Conan's plans to return without writers were announced, Conan was quoted as saying: "I am left with a difficult decision. Either go back to work and keep my staff employed or stay dark and allow 80 people, many of whom have worked for me for fourteen years, to lose their jobs."
I am doubtful that if Conan would've stayed off the air, those 80 people would've literally lost their jobs/been fired. There was never anything about such an ultimatum reported on the strike-related websites, which have been posting the less-than-humane memos sent to employees of various shows/networks. When I read Conan's statement, I thought he was exaggerating the truth (about the 80 people who were laid off) to make a better case for his coming back without writers, thinking that those of us reading it wouldn't know any better.

Please LNG, remember that you are a spectator to the strike, while Conan has all the information he needed to make his decision. You said so yourself:

I'm not Conan and I don't know his motives or the details of what goes on between him, NBC, his staff, and his writers. Maybe Conan could've continued to do what he was doing until NBC execs decided they didn't like the advantage that the Late Show and Late Late Show had with new scripted shows on CBS against their rerun h.ell of the Tonight Show and Conan and would've decided it might be worthwhile to negotiate with the WGA. Too late now.

There are maybes, "I don't think," "I don't know," and "I am doubtful" in your argument. I don't see the need to jump to conclusions just because legal details weren't released to the public. We may feel critical towards Conan now, but only the insiders know all the options.

[SomeCallMeJim]

I have to admit, I'm really torn here, and part of it comes down to my mixed feelings on unions. I mean, yes, during the industrial revolution in America during the late 1800's and early 1900's, It was the unions that got the hard working citizens of our country high wages and benefits. Of course, on the flip side, many economists also feel the Unions caused the stress on US businesses that led to the great depression and ultimately FDR's decision to take the gold standard off the dollar (which has led to financial instability to this day), so I know that even historically, unions have done both a lot of good for workers, and simultaneously a lot of bad for the economy.

That being said, I am also situated out here in the midwest, where unions for entertainment just don't exist on any great scale. I've seen (and for that matter, been involved in) midwestern production studios who put together and distribute whole films with non-union cast and crew, and in the end, everyone went home with fair paychecks and a great film under their belt. So as far as saying that you NEED unions to get fair compensation, I don't buy it.

Of course, unions do serve a great purpose, in that most unions have pretty strict requirements for union members. When you hire a union worker, you know that they have been through certain training and have certain abilities you can depend on. For a business, you get a certified quality employee, and of course, all the strings that come with it.

I saw someone mention unions as protecting jobs from being outsourced, but that doesn't really apply here, since I highly doubt NBC is going to hire a room full of people in India who can barely speak English to write comedy for Conan O'Brien. Writing just can't be exported. Want proof? Read any instruction manual that comes from China! :-D

Also, it's been repeatedly stated that Conan and Jay going back may have "crippled" WGA talks. I honestly don't think anyone who is fully aware of the sheer size of NBC Universal can honestly say this. You've got one of the largest entertainment companies in history, with TV shows, film studios, and the whole gamut. Putting these two shows back on the air looks impressive, because it's two very popular hours of TV, but the honest to goodness truth is that these two hours of TV make up a very small part of a very large company. They just happen to be the window dressing that we all see.

But ultimately, it does come down to the fact that a worker is worthy of his wages, and writers do deserve to be paid their portion of internet profits. I hope NBC and the others will realize this and get going. While I might not be in love with unions, I do agree with the conflict the union is striking over.

[grt]

The writers may have some legitimate complaints about their compensation. If I have complaints about my compensation, I talk to my superiors. If I don't feel like I'm treated fairly, I'm free to find another job where my services will be more fairly compensated.

And if your entire industry colludes to treat no-one fairly, then what?

NBC or any other company should be able to pay their employees what they want. If it's not up to par, then they won't have the best writers, which in turn will hurt their product in the long run. It's called free enterprise folks. That's what America is all about!

That's not free enterprise. That's tyranny. Free enterprise is when NBC (or any other company) pays the employees what the market will sustain. The writers feel that their work is worth more than they're receiving for it, so they took it off the market until their wages get better. That's what America is all about!

I just don't get why it's legal to team up and threaten to harm a company or even put it out of business if a group of workers don't get what they want. Isn't that a form of extortion?

Actually, you know, it's one of those pesky little "rights" afforded to all American citizens by this quaint old document called the "Bill of Rights." And unfortunately for NBC, there's no constitutionally enshrined right to exploit your workers.

Maybe those who throw out those "scab" comments should examine why they think they are entitled to do such damage. (Not to mention what it does to the others who aren't on strike)

Ding! Sorry, you loose. That one's also in the Bill of Rights. In fact, it's the very first one.

[redtex]

The Bill of Rights guarantees the freedom of speech. It doesn't have anything to do with going on strike. You might want to rethink mixing those two positions.

You chose to use a couple of words like tyranny and collusion. You might want to look up the definition of those words before throwing them out. Tyranny means opressive power. Who's being opressive? The networks are trying to make business decisions that will benefit their shareholders. Don't they have the right to try to do what's best for them?

The definition of collusion is a secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose. I don't believe anyone is doing anything illegal. And you may not like the way the networks are negotiating, but that doesn't mean it's deceitful.

You said the writers took their work off the market. What actually happened is they walked off the job. In a free market, the networks would go out and hire new writers who were willing to work for a set amount. I just don't understand why you think you have the right to tell your employer what you want to be paid. There's nothing wrong with negotiating, but by walking out and trying to cause harm to that employer seems almost criminal. As I've said before, if you don't like the job or you feel you're being treated unfair, you're free to leave.

Now I won't end this post in a childish manner and tell you that you are wrong. Remember, it's just an exchange of ideas...a difference of opinions. "Ding!"