NBC > JAM Therapy

Beeswax_Not_Yours_Inc.

Apr 29 2007, 04:29 PM

QUOTE (officerules07 @ Apr 29 2007, 03:12 PM)

Okay, so I must admit I caught myself being negative today. I think it's b/c there was zero JAM interaction in Product Recall compared to some good interaction in Safety Training. I've been saying that it will all be okay b/c Pam is going to tell Jim before S3 ends; he will realize that he still loves her & wants to try. So I decided to watch the last 4 episodes of S2 (like someone suggested somewhere). This really made me realize how far we went in those last few eps!

Michael's B-Day (Product Recall)
Friendly/flirty but a touch of sadness by Jim
Definitely had a little bit of filler feel

Drug Testing (Women's Appreciation)
Friendly/flirty, very sad, esp. break room scene – "Jim, you can tell me anything" (yeah, except the most important thing) – Pam knew something was up

Conflict Resolution (Beach Games)
Not much interaction
Jim was exasperated ("What does Roy think?" "I try not to bother him w/ this stuff" "Like your thoughts & feelings?").
Pam was hurt b/c Jim told on her.
Jim starts feeling like everything in his life sucks (Dwight pranks, Pam's wedding is quickly coming up) so he applies for transfer as way out.

Casino Night (The Job)
They are friendly again but in a more guarded way.
Pam's trying not to upset him by doing wedding stuff. He figures his time there is short so why not be friendly.
Opposite feelings – Pam: "I'm pretty happy these days. I'm getting along w/ everyone at work." Jim: "I have no future here."
Pam: "Jim is great. Being w/ him takes all of the stress out of planning my wedding."
*All of the above leads to his finally laying all of his cards on the table (going "all in"), telling her he is in love w/ her & then kissing her.

So I guess I'm back in the hopeful camp. TPTB proved last year they can cover miles of ground in a very short time period. Pam WILL tell Jim before S3 ends, and even if he somehow turns her down, I think we'll at least have the HOPE that they will be together before S3 ends. I just don't see them totally recreating CN. Finger crossed!! Sending lots of positive JAM vibes!!!

*EDIT: I had another thought after reading Beewax's post. There has been some discussion about how good relationships don't require tons of work - if you're meant to be together, it just works out. (That doesn't include the day-to-day trivial challenges of living together & such.) Although Pam & Jim have had a tough road so far, I think once they are together as a couple, they will be in sync & their relationship will flow. (Does that make sense? I don't want people thinking just b/c things have been rough for JAM that they don't belong together b/c that's just not true!)

Awesome breakdown/comparison of the final four, FNOR. I really think watching those last 4 is a JAM Therapy requirement before season's end. Very insightful and you get to see how cute Dwight looks in his uniform. I miss that uniform.

ushoulddunder2

Apr 29 2007, 04:32 PM

QUOTE (dinknflicker @ Apr 29 2007, 12:53 PM)

Good question. MAYBE stick around to wait for an explanation after he acknowledged that. But once I'd have seen Jim and Pam giggling under the sombreros I would have been so out of there. Got dignity, much?

Not much.

Evidentally Karen isn't as self-confident as she looks. Only someone with some self-delusion and/or self-esteem issues would stick with a guy who openly admitted he still has feelings for a girl he 1) has years of history with, 2) works with every day, Monday thru Friday, and 3) obviously shares much in common with (sense of humor).

Some have talked about Jim being in denial about his feelings for Pam. I say Karen is in denial about Jim's feelings for her.

hollystangland

Apr 29 2007, 05:00 PM

Here's another tidbit of hope I just culled from Product Recall:

When Michael is sending Jim out to the high school and insists on him bringing someone, Karen doesn't volunteer, and Jim doesn't suggest her; he just wants to go alone. If you were really happy with your girlfriend/boyfriend, wouldn't you jump at the chance to get out of the office with her/him for the day!?? Jim is so not into her...as if we didn't know that already.

Cathyg

Apr 29 2007, 05:08 PM

QUOTE (FancyNewBeesly @ Apr 29 2007, 06:00 PM)

Here's another tidbit of hope I just culled from Product Recall:

When Michael is sending Jim out to the high school and insists on him bringing someone, Karen doesn't volunteer, and Jim doesn't suggest her; he just wants to go alone. If you were really happy with your girlfriend/boyfriend, wouldn't you jump at the chance to get out of the office with her/him for the day!?? Jim is so not into her...as if we didn't know that already.

HA good catch. The death knell is sounding on that relationship. But have you ever thought about what that call would have been like if, say, Creed had gone? I think a lot of the kids are already customers of his fake id company.

officeobsessed

Apr 29 2007, 05:35 PM

It's torture watching Jim and Karen as a "couple". Even though we know they are probably doomed, it's like every minute he wastes with her is a minute he could be happy with Pam. It's soooo painful to watch. I am trying to find comfort with the "Final Four" comparison with S2, but these last three weeks are just killing me. I find myself thinking about JAM so much. It's ridiculous. I am hoping after the finale, I can look back and see how everything came together--just like in the "Final Four." But the journey is excruciating.

I am a relatively new Office flan--I only started watching mid-February (but got all caught up on S1, S2 and S3 in the course of about two weeks!) So I did not have to live through this last year or over the summer. I am used to immediate gratification with the Office and this just plain sucks!

I have been reading spoilers (don't worry, nothing really to give away and nothing to impact what I am writing here) and just hate myself for it. It's like staying away from chocolate and then in a moment of weakness eating a whole bag of M&Ms. You feel sick afterwards. Yup. That's me.

I just hope TPTB know what kind of emotional roller coaster we are all on and that they are going to give us something to smile about May 17th!

ushoulddunder2

Apr 29 2007, 05:50 PM

QUOTE (FancyNewBeesly @ Apr 29 2007, 06:00 PM)

Here's another tidbit of hope I just culled from Product Recall:

When Michael is sending Jim out to the high school and insists on him bringing someone, Karen doesn't volunteer, and Jim doesn't suggest her; he just wants to go alone. If you were really happy with your girlfriend/boyfriend, wouldn't you jump at the chance to get out of the office with her/him for the day!?? Jim is so not into her...as if we didn't know that already.

Awesome catch FNB! And as clingy as we know Karen to be, if things were going well on the JAREN front, she would have spoken up in a milli-second and said "I'll go."

I see this as another sign of the breakup to come that we are all waiting & praying for.

sedimentary

Apr 29 2007, 06:00 PM

QUOTE (ushoulddunder2 @ Apr 29 2007, 05:50 PM)

Awesome catch FNB! And as clingy as we know Karen to be, if things were going well on the JAREN front, she would have spoken up in a milli-second and said "I'll go."

I see this as another sign of the breakup to come that we are all waiting & praying for.

Remember in Traveling Salesman when Phyllis chose Karen, her and Jim looked at eachother and you could tell they would have picked eachother...there was no such looks this time around. Good catch you guys!! Good sign, I think!

Vinny_V.

Apr 29 2007, 07:59 PM

QUOTE (ushoulddunder2 @ Apr 29 2007, 04:32 PM)

Evidentally Karen isn't as self-confident as she looks. Only someone with some self-delusion and/or self-esteem issues would stick with a guy who openly admitted he still has feelings for a girl he 1) has years of history with, 2) works with every day, Monday thru Friday, and 3) obviously shares much in common with (sense of humor).

Ironically, while viewing the MiniVids thread today, I found what may be the only evidence of Karen having any sense of humor...

QUOTE

Some have talked about Jim being in denial about his feelings for Pam. I say Karen is in denial about Jim's feelings for her.

Agreed. Also ironically I just mentioned that very issue in my response to SB's analysis in the Pam Dichotomy thread tonight.

Beeswax_Not_Yours_Inc.

Apr 29 2007, 08:02 PM

Woo-Hoo!

Everyone give yourself a pat on the back! We've reached 1000 posts!

That just goes to show, JAM is alive and kicking.

Beeswax_Not_Yours_Inc.

Apr 29 2007, 08:06 PM

QUOTE (sedimentary @ Apr 29 2007, 07:00 PM)

Remember in Traveling Salesman when Phyllis chose Karen, her and Jim looked at eachother and you could tell they would have picked eachother...there was no such looks this time around. Good catch you guys!! Good sign, I think!

Congratulations Sedimentary!

You are the 1000th post!

To thank you for your time and effort, I award you with this:

You get to share Jim's ipod with him and sway together to one song. Have fun, you two, and don't do anything I wouldn't do!

ladama

Apr 29 2007, 08:19 PM

QUOTE (Vinny V. @ Apr 29 2007, 06:59 PM)

Ironically, while viewing the MiniVids thread today, I found what may be the only evidence of Karen having any sense of humor...

This is the most chemistry I think we've ever seen between these two and it was a good 4-6weeks before they started dating and also happen in Stamford (where Karen was much more in her element). It's been downhill since then, remember that, JAMmers

officerules07

Apr 29 2007, 09:39 PM

QUOTE (Beeswax Not Yours Inc. @ Apr 29 2007, 08:06 PM)

Congratulations Sedimentary! You are the 1000th post!

To thank you for your time and effort, I award you with this: You get to share Jim's ipod with him and sway together to one song. Have fun, you two, and don't do anything I wouldn't do!

Man, LUCKY Sedimentary!! If I'd known this was the prize, I would've lurked longer...

Beeswax_Not_Yours_Inc.

Apr 29 2007, 10:07 PM

QUOTE (officerules07 @ Apr 29 2007, 10:39 PM)

Man, LUCKY Sedimentary!! If I'd known this was the prize, I would've lurked longer...

Sorry!

I got to have a practice sway with Jim, just to make sure everything was in working order for the 1000th poster, so I can't complain.

Is it wrong that I asked him to dress up as Dwight for my swaying session?

fleece_it_out

Apr 29 2007, 10:09 PM

QUOTE (Beeswax Not Yours Inc. @ Apr 29 2007, 10:07 PM)

Sorry!

I got to have a practice sway with Jim, just to make sure everything was in working order for the 1000th poster, so I can't complain.

Is it wrong that I asked him to dress up as Dwight for my swaying session?

That's cheating.

And I see nothing wrong with that.

officerules07

Apr 29 2007, 10:52 PM

QUOTE (Beeswax Not Yours Inc. @ Apr 29 2007, 10:07 PM)

I got to have a practice sway with Jim, just to make sure everything was in working order for the 1000th poster, so I can't complain.

Is it wrong that I asked him to dress up as Dwight for my swaying session?

Lucky again! Honestly, I'd pick Dwight as Jim over Jim as Dwight, but give me Jim every day of the week & twice on Sundays!!!

fleece_it_out

Apr 29 2007, 10:58 PM

QUOTE (officerules07 @ Apr 29 2007, 10:52 PM)

Lucky again! Honestly, I'd pick Dwight as Jim over Jim as Dwight, but give me Jim every day of the week & twice on Sundays!!!

I'll take him twice everyday

maxwell3

Apr 29 2007, 11:01 PM

QUOTE (Beeswax Not Yours Inc. @ Apr 29 2007, 03:06 PM)

Yes, there is certainly no spark between Karen and Jim. On paper, they seem like they would be great together, but they just don't jive. Jim has shown more emotion and connection in one look to Pam than he has ever shown to Karen, and (cover your ears here Jammers), Karen and Jim have most likely had "relations"!

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Jim and Pam are soulmates. They formed a connection the day that they met and, as difficult as things have been lately, that connection still exists. Jim and Pam are an example of love at first sight. Some people don't believe in love at first sight, but I do. I think it is rare, but possible. In my opinion, true love at first sight is two souls destined to be together. Obstacles may be put in the path of true love, but they will be overcome. Remember, love is like oxygen, love is a many splendored thing, all we need is love.

Jim and Pam have a love that they cannot control and sooner or later, their love will transcend all of the boundries and issues that have plagued them. Our love birds will be together, it's just a question of when.

Ok, I'll step off my romantic soapbox and step back down on to the reality of the ground. Oh, wait, I have one foot hanging off the soapbox, so I will give one more quote:

The JAM Force is what gives a Jammer his/her power. It's an energy field created by Jim and Pam. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds us all together.

This whole post makes me smile

.

QUOTE (OfficeObsessed @ Apr 29 2007, 06:35 PM)

I have been reading spoilers (don't worry, nothing really to give away and nothing to impact what I am writing here) and just hate myself for it. It's like staying away from chocolate and then in a moment of weakness eating a whole bag of M&Ms. You feel sick afterwards. Yup. That's me.

I just hope TPTB know what kind of emotional roller coaster we are all on and that they are going to give us something to smile about May 17th!

I know how you feel OO. During the hianous I went spoiler crazy, and now I know everything that is going to happen this Thursday. I feel so guilty and ashamed... like I just ate an entire chocolate cake and now I have to go to the gym to work it off. Only, there is no treadmill there for running off Office spoilers. Luckily I am off the spoilers now, and the last 2 episodes are going to be a complete suprise. I just know we are gonna get some beautiful Jam though!!!

sedimentary

Apr 29 2007, 11:22 PM

QUOTE (Beeswax Not Yours Inc. @ Apr 29 2007, 08:06 PM)

Congratulations Sedimentary!

You are the 1000th post!

To thank you for your time and effort, I award you with this:

You get to share Jim's ipod with him and sway together to one song. Have fun, you two, and don't do anything I wouldn't do!

Wow, Beeswax...thanks!!! What a prize. Your topic is the best topic of all the topics!!

I'll have to politely disagree with Pam...it is dancing and it was awesome! Thanks for the virtual dance, Jim, courtesy of Beeswax! Ladies, everyone can now take a turn because without you this never would have happened! And guys...sorry...despite what Todd Packer thinks, Jim is definately straight and he's not making room on the dance card for you! But I hear Pam may be available if you're the 2000th post!

Marissa87

Apr 30 2007, 01:04 AM

QUOTE (fleece_it_out @ Apr 29 2007, 11:58 PM)

I'll take him twice everyday

Niiiice. Wouldn't we all. Hey it's Monday! Only 3 more days...well 4 if you count thursday....nah three sounds better.

Beeswax_Not_Yours_Inc.

Apr 30 2007, 05:24 AM

QUOTE (sedimentary @ Apr 30 2007, 12:22 AM)

Wow, Beeswax...thanks!!! What a prize. Your topic is the best topic of all the topics!!

I'll have to politely disagree with Pam...it is dancing and it was awesome! Thanks for the virtual dance, Jim, courtesy of Beeswax! Ladies, everyone can now take a turn because without you this never would have happened! And guys...sorry...despite what Todd Packer thinks, Jim is definately straight and he's not making room on the dance card for you! But I hear Pam may be available if you're the 2000th post!

I'm glad you two had a good time dancing. I'm sure we'd all let Miss Beesly cut in if she came by! Pam Halpert and myself would probably get them into the supply closet and make them work out their differences.

I love that picture of Krasinski for so many reasons. I'm getting that same ipod for my birthday, so that's one. The other is how giant his hand looks holding the ipod. Tiny ipod, big hands, cute face, Jim hair...*swoon*

sedimentary

Apr 30 2007, 07:19 AM

QUOTE (Beeswax Not Yours Inc. @ Apr 30 2007, 05:24 AM)

I'm glad you two had a good time dancing. I'm sure we'd all let Miss Beesly cut in if she came by! Pam Halpert and myself would probably get them into the supply closet and make them work out their differences.

I love that picture of Krasinski for so many reasons. I'm getting that same ipod for my birthday, so that's one. The other is how giant his hand looks holding the ipod. Tiny ipod, big hands, cute face, Jim hair...*swoon*

I'm all for getting them in the supply closet. After all, if two people find eachother, what should stand in their way?

Most pictures of John Krasinski/Jim make me weak in the knees. I think it's because he's not pretty boy handsome...he is just every day good looking...which makes him even that much more loveable! He'd sure give me motivation at the gym in the morning...so much more than those typical gym rats!

Pam_Halpert_1

Apr 30 2007, 08:53 AM

QUOTE (Beeswax Not Yours Inc. @ Apr 30 2007, 06:24 AM)

I'm glad you two had a good time dancing. I'm sure we'd all let Miss Beesly cut in if she came by! Pam Halpert and myself would probably get them into the supply closet and make them work out their differences.

I love that picture of Krasinski for so many reasons. I'm getting that same ipod for my birthday, so that's one. The other is how giant his hand looks holding the ipod. Tiny ipod, big hands, cute face, Jim hair...*swoon*

I would have to get Jenna/Pam... because if I had John/Jim and was taking him into a supply closet.. well I don't think I would let anyone else in HAHA

herecomestrouble

Apr 30 2007, 08:57 AM

QUOTE (sedimentary @ Apr 30 2007, 06:19 AM)

I'm all for getting them in the supply closet. After all, if two people find eachother, what should stand in their way?

Most pictures of John Krasinski/Jim make me weak in the knees. I think it's because he's not pretty boy handsome...he is just every day good looking...which makes him even that much more loveable! He'd sure give me motivation at the gym in the morning...so much more than those typical gym rats!

Its all about Jim. John K is a hottie because Jim is so awesome. If John K was playing Packer . . . well then. . . .

sedimentary

Apr 30 2007, 09:23 AM

QUOTE (HereComesTrouble @ Apr 30 2007, 08:57 AM)

Its all about Jim. John K is a hottie because Jim is so awesome. If John K was playing Packer . . . well then. . . .

Enough said...let's keep that image out of it...this is a happy place! Happy thoughts! Happy Jim. I wonder if John Krasinski is as nice in real life as his character is. I would like to think so!

Marissa87

Apr 30 2007, 10:02 AM

QUOTE (sedimentary @ Apr 30 2007, 10:25 AM)

Yeah, that episode broke my heart too. Especially when you watch the deleted scenes...great acting! I just wanted to hug him. Why did Pam say she was cold...do you think she knew what he was feeling...or do you think she was so clueless and was actually cold?

No Pam knew, she's not stupid. She was just trying very hard to ignore it/think nothing of it.

Also the pic of JK up there with Ipod. Looks like he's in the Apple Store on 5th Avenue. I bought my Ipod case there!!! Ahhh so exciting...It's pathetic how i get so excited about being places where I know famous people have been. lol

sedimentary

Apr 30 2007, 10:16 AM

My husband and I watched e-mail surveillance and The Client last night. Both of which are in my top 5...except Pam had to go and ruin the mood by being snarky about the whole dancing comment. When I asked my husband why she was so snotty about that, he said she had to be because she was engaged. I know I should be mad at Jim for swooping in on someone else's fiancee, but let's face it, Roy was wrong for her and she knew it, Jim knew it and we all know it!! So that absolves Jim of any wrongdoing in my opinion. Plus, BFD, engaged ain't married!! (That has got to be my favorite Michael line of all time!).

officeobsessed

Apr 30 2007, 10:20 AM

QUOTE (sedimentary @ Apr 30 2007, 08:25 AM)

Yeah, that episode broke my heart too. Especially when you watch the deleted scenes...great acting! I just wanted to hug him. Why did Pam say she was cold...do you think she knew what he was feeling...or do you think she was so clueless and was actually cold?

This has been said before by someone else on the MB, but I love it. Paraphrasing: 'Pam was not cold on the deck with Jim. She was red hot. She went inside to cool off by Roy!'

If only Jim had spoke during that 27 seconds of silence! *sigh*

herecomestrouble

Apr 30 2007, 10:23 AM

QUOTE (OfficeObsessed @ Apr 30 2007, 09:20 AM)

This has been said before by someone else on the MB, but I love it. Paraphrasing: 'Pam was not cold on the deck with Jim. She was red hot. She went inside to cool off by Roy!'

If only Jim had spoke during that 27 seconds of silence! *sigh*

Niiice. But no wishing he had spoken during that silence . . . he should have attacked her! A kiss was what was called for then. A big, sloppy one. Then Roy could walk in and see them and Jim could have thrown him overboard.

sedimentary

Apr 30 2007, 10:25 AM

QUOTE (OfficeObsessed @ Apr 30 2007, 10:20 AM)

This has been said before by someone else on the MB, but I love it. Paraphrasing: 'Pam was not cold on the deck with Jim. She was red hot. She went inside to cool off by Roy!'

If only Jim had spoke during that 27 seconds of silence! *sigh*

Oooh...niiiice! I always wondered about that...I like that...she went inside to cool off by Roy. Don't you think you would have stuck around, even just out of curiosity? I guess I have no moral center!!

But would it have made any difference if he had said anything during the 27 seconds of silence? Who knows!!!

Marissa87

Apr 30 2007, 10:44 AM

So I gave my friend the rest of season 2 to watch. Which I hope she did. I would have liked to watch it with her, but it was easier to just let her take the dvds home. Hopefully she can finish watching ALL the episodes by thursday.
3 dayssss!!!

Vinny_V.

Apr 30 2007, 12:05 PM

QUOTE (OfficeObsessed @ Apr 30 2007, 08:52 AM)

Poor Jim. He broke my heart in that episode. I hope Michael's words come back to him soon..."never, ever, ever give up." It seems like he has given up.

Agreed, but honestly, what choice has Pam given him? He can't keep pursuing someone who turns him away at every crucial moment of honesty. Aside from CN and Booze Cruise, I think back to The Return where Jim confronts her outside after work and apologizes... "sorry if it got weird". Pam responds by denying any hurt feelings or emotional attachment, saying... "you can do whatever you want... we're friends". Also, I was watching The Fight the other day, and recalled that Pam got upset with Jim after she realized others saw him pick her up when they were wrestle-flirting. Then she gave him the cold shoulder the rest of the day. Why that was justified, I don't know, but Jim was hurt and got another signal that Pam is not interested in anything more than friendship.

Add the events of PW to the mix and it's moments like this that lead to Jim's reaction in The Negotiation breakroom, caused him to bury his feelings, and put JAM where they are now.

Fear not though, it's clear that FNB is on a mission to correct these errors from the past. Karen is but a speed bump on the road to JAM. The bigger obstacle is time, and how receptive Jim will be. Much ground will be covered in the last 3 episodes of this season.

unshun

Apr 30 2007, 12:48 PM

I noticed in many posts that Jim's Breakroom reaction in The Negotiation seems to be listed as an example of Jim burying his feelings. I may be odd (check that I am odd, but that is another issue entirely) in that I think his reaction to Pam was the most honest expression of his feelings we have seen since Casino night. Yes it might have seemed hurtful for him to tell Pam that he was certain that Pam and Roy would find their way back to each other. I submit to you however that he was truthfully telling Pam his big fear/source of continuing disapointment/hurt. If Pam wants to know why Jim is keeping his distance, Jim has told her. It may have been slightly passive aggressive, but at the same time it lets Pam know she has to prove to Jim that this time she isn't going back to Roy.
My appologies if I misinterpreted anyone's post. Also let me know if you think I am stark raving mad. (The wind is currently north by northwest.)

sedimentary

Apr 30 2007, 12:53 PM

QUOTE (unshun @ Apr 30 2007, 12:48 PM)

I noticed in many posts that Jim's Breakroom reaction in The Negotiation seems to be listed as an example of Jim burying his feelings. I may be odd (check that I am odd, but that is another issue entirely) in that I think his reaction to Pam was the most honest expression of his feelings we have seen since Casino night. Yes it might have seemed hurtful for him to tell Pam that he was certain that Pam and Roy would find their way back to each other. I submit to you however that he was truthfully telling Pam his big fear/source of continuing disapointment/hurt. If Pam wants to know why Jim is keeping his distance, Jim has told her. It may have been slightly passive aggressive, but at the same time it lets Pam know she has to prove to Jim that this time she isn't going back to Roy.
My appologies if I misinterpreted anyone's post. Also let me know if you think I am stark raving mad. (The wind is currently north by northwest.)

I agree with you on this...I think he honestly believes that Pam will go back to Roy...and you're right, she needs to prove to Jim that he's the one she has the strong connection with!

ladama

Apr 30 2007, 12:56 PM

QUOTE (Vinny V. @ Apr 30 2007, 11:05 AM)

Also, I was watching The Fight the other day, and recalled that Pam got upset with Jim after she realized others saw him pick her up when they were wrestle-flirting. Then she gave him the cold shoulder the rest of the day. Why that was justified, I don't know, but Jim was hurt and got another signal that Pam is not interested in anything more than friendship.

Do you hold every bad thing Pam has ever done in the entire history of the show against her? Sometimes it seems like you do

Anyway, that was a long time ago, and you are right, at the time she was not interested in anything more than friendship. When people accused her otherwise, she felt like they were saying she's cheating on Roy. Not that Meredith was thinking that, she just turned because of the noise, but in that split second, Pam thought of how them play wrestling must look to an outsider, and part of her may have even thought that Roy would somehow get wind of it (and we all know about his temper). The only way she could allow herself to have the relationship she had with Jim was to constantly tell herself it was friendship, nothing more.

QUOTE (Vinny V. @ Apr 30 2007, 11:05 AM)

Fear not though, it's clear that FNB is on a mission to correct these errors from the past. Karen is but a speed bump on the road to JAM. The bigger obstacle is time, and how receptive Jim will be. Much ground will be covered in the last 3 episodes of this season.

That's the spirit, your comment in PD had me worried.

Vinny_V.

Apr 30 2007, 01:39 PM

QUOTE (ladama @ Apr 30 2007, 12:56 PM)

Do you hold every bad thing Pam has ever done in the entire history of the show against her? Sometimes it seems like you do

No, but I do recall those crucial moments of emotional dishonesty. Actually your comment is the very heart of the matter... everything she has done that has confused Jim and/or caused him to question where he stands with Pam to this point is very relevant, and warrants consideration. The whole of JAM is a sum of it's parts... past and present. I read many thoughts here about the problems with Jim's wall. I don't read nearly as much about the actual bricks he used to build it.

This is why nothing can take the place of a direct confession from Pam, and soon. We all seem to be in agreement on that.

QUOTE

Anyway, that was a long time ago, and you are right, at the time she was not interested in anything more than friendship.

Actually, I am of the belief that she always had feelings for Jim and was very interested in more than friendship, but out of obligation and moral dilemma she never acted on those feelings.

QUOTE

The only way she could allow herself to have the relationship she had with Jim was to constantly tell herself it was friendship, nothing more.

Agreed, but again I see this as emotional dishonesty. You don't flirt with and kiss someone back when they kiss you if you're not interested.

QUOTE

That's the spirit, your comment in PD had me worried.

We're all pulling for JAM, and for FNB to emerge victorious. I'm just trying to offer my opinions on the relevant reasons why Jim has buried his feelings, and why Pam has a struggle to overcome the conflicted past.

Fancy_New_Beasley

Apr 30 2007, 01:46 PM

QUOTE (unshun @ Apr 30 2007, 10:48 AM)

I noticed in many posts that Jim's Breakroom reaction in The Negotiation seems to be listed as an example of Jim burying his feelings. I may be odd (check that I am odd, but that is another issue entirely) in that I think his reaction to Pam was the most honest expression of his feelings we have seen since Casino night. Yes it might have seemed hurtful for him to tell Pam that he was certain that Pam and Roy would find their way back to each other. I submit to you however that he was truthfully telling Pam his big fear/source of continuing disapointment/hurt. If Pam wants to know why Jim is keeping his distance, Jim has told her. It may have been slightly passive aggressive, but at the same time it lets Pam know she has to prove to Jim that this time she isn't going back to Roy.
My appologies if I misinterpreted anyone's post. Also let me know if you think I am stark raving mad. (The wind is currently north by northwest.)

I totally agree- this was actually very honest from Jim! I think also that he didn't just bury his feelinngs or run away; he honestly didn't want to have this conversation AGAIN. It probably seems to him that Pam really will run back to Roy, so why open himself up for more pain just to get smashed again? But I think Pam got the message, because she was very clear in breaking things off with Roy, and she's really trying to show how happy & independent she is without him. But as much as Jim will probably notice that eventually... she's gotta get a move on! The boy is not just sitting around waiting for her anymore.

Quick NEWBIE question: I can not find the episode summaries for the rest of the season- just the next one that will be on! (I'm not looking for a bunch of spoilers, but everyone keeps talking about the NBC synopsis and knows the titles of the last episodes.) Can anybody direct me where I need to go?

bubblewrap_1

Apr 30 2007, 02:36 PM

QUOTE (Fancy New Beasley @ Apr 30 2007, 02:46 PM)

Quick NEWBIE question: I can not find the episode summaries for the rest of the season- just the next one that will be on! (I'm not looking for a bunch of spoilers, but everyone keeps talking about the NBC synopsis and knows the titles of the last episodes.) Can anybody direct me where I need to go?

Just go here: officetally.com. Look at the right hand side- the episode titles are in the corner. If you click on the title it goes to a different page with the synopsis. Hope this helps

Beeswax_Not_Yours_Inc.

Apr 30 2007, 04:25 PM

QUOTE (Vinny V. @ Apr 30 2007, 02:39 PM)

Actually, I am of the belief that she always had feelings for Jim and was very interested in more than friendship, but out of obligation and moral dilemma she never acted on those feelings.

I completely agree with you, Vinny V.

As I said in my post yesterday, these two have had a connection and feelings for each other from the day they met. It's my belief that Pam probably thought of Jim the same way as she thought about her art. It was a nice dream, but nothing that could become a reality in her life. That mindset was obviously blown apart on CN, but Pam was not emotionally ready to deal with that reality.

Here's the quote from Boys and Girls to sum it all up:

Dreams are just that. They’re dreams. They help get you through the day. Like the thing about the terrace. It’s nice. But, um … I don’t know. It was just something I read in this book when I was 12. Uh, the girl in the book has a terrace outside of her bedroom. And she planted flowers on it. And I just loved that. Just always kind of stuck with me... It’s impractical, I’m not going to try to get a house like that. Um, they don’t even make houses like that in Scranton. So I’m never gonna … (breaks down in tears).

C'mon, Pam, those dreams can come true if you just talk to that man!!!!

officeobsessed

Apr 30 2007, 04:35 PM

QUOTE (Vinny V. @ Apr 30 2007, 11:05 AM)

Agreed, but honestly, what choice has Pam given him? He can't keep pursuing someone who turns him away at every crucial moment of honesty. Aside from CN and Booze Cruise, I think back to The Return where Jim confronts her outside after work and apologizes... "sorry if it got weird". Pam responds by denying any hurt feelings or emotional attachment, saying... "you can do whatever you want... we're friends". Also, I was watching The Fight the other day, and recalled that Pam got upset with Jim after she realized others saw him pick her up when they were wrestle-flirting. Then she gave him the cold shoulder the rest of the day. Why that was justified, I don't know, but Jim was hurt and got another signal that Pam is not interested in anything more than friendship.

Add the events of PW to the mix and it's moments like this that lead to Jim's reaction in The Negotiation breakroom, caused him to bury his feelings, and put JAM where they are now.

Fear not though, it's clear that FNB is on a mission to correct these errors from the past. Karen is but a speed bump on the road to JAM. The bigger obstacle is time, and how receptive Jim will be. Much ground will be covered in the last 3 episodes of this season.

I agree with everything you are saying, but I can still be sad, right? That is why I came here for JAM therapy.

And when I say Jim has given up, I also see his resignation to a passionless, dead-end relationship with Karen as a manifestation of his surrender. It's as if he's given up on the hope of being happy. It's just plain sad.

sedimentary

Apr 30 2007, 04:41 PM

QUOTE (Beeswax Not Yours Inc. @ Apr 30 2007, 04:25 PM)

I completely agree with you, Vinny V.

As I said in my post yesterday, these two have had a connection and feelings for each other from the day they met. It's my belief that Pam probably thought of Jim the same way as she thought about her art. It was a nice dream, but nothing that could become a reality in her life. That mindset was obviously blown apart on CN, but Pam was not emotionally ready to deal with that reality.

Here's the quote from Boys and Girls to sum it all up:

Dreams are just that. They're dreams. They help get you through the day. Like the thing about the terrace. It's nice. But, um … I don't know. It was just something I read in this book when I was 12. Uh, the girl in the book has a terrace outside of her bedroom. And she planted flowers on it. And I just loved that. Just always kind of stuck with me... It's impractical, I'm not going to try to get a house like that. Um, they don't even make houses like that in Scranton. So I'm never gonna … (breaks down in tears).

C'mon, Pam, those dreams can come true if you just talk to that man!!!!

Isn't that just the saddest thing you have ever heard? Well, except for "I can't."

Has anyone seen (I think it's called) Housesitter with Goldie Hawn and Steve Martin and Dana Delaney? Where Dana Delaney is talking about Steve Martin's character being a dreamer and that when she sees him through Goldie Hawn's eyes, that she realizes that a dreamer with someone who believes in them can do great things. Sorry if I didn't get that quite right...

That's Pam...once she gets with Jim, she can do great things. (even if the the great things are only with Jim-wink wink). In all seriousness, if she ends up with Jim and never gets the house with the terrace, I doubt she'd be crying like she was in the TH. She just needs to "grow a pair" and tell him already. How could it get any worse than it is now?? Unless she just WANTS to forever be friends...

Monday is almost over!! I'll get through tomorrow by watching American Idol...same with Wed and then Thurs is always a jam packed day...ha ha! I can't wait for the new episode! It shall be great!

unshun

Apr 30 2007, 04:47 PM

QUOTE

And when I say Jim has given up, I also see his resignation to a passionless, dead-end relationship with Karen as a manifestation of his surrender. It's as if he's given up on the hope of being happy. It's just plain sad.

I would give Jim more credit than that. Think about Booze Cruise, after Roy sets the wedding date Jim has every reason to throw himself into his relationship with Katie. Riding the emotional high of the Roy-Pam re-engagement Katie starts talking seriously about the future with Jim. Jim knows this isn't what he wants and ends it so fast Katie had no idea what hit her. Have faith Jim will not settle. It wouldn't surprise me if Karen's undoing is pushing Jim to commit and he just steps up again and says no.

sedimentary

Apr 30 2007, 05:04 PM

QUOTE (unshun @ Apr 30 2007, 04:47 PM)

I would give Jim more credit than that. Think about Booze Cruise, after Roy sets the wedding date Jim has every reason to throw himself into his relationship with Katie. Riding the emotional high of the Roy-Pam re-engagement Katie starts talking seriously about the future with Jim. Jim knows this isn't what he wants and ends it so fast Katie had no idea what hit her. Have faith Jim will not settle. It wouldn't surprise me if Karen's undoing is pushing Jim to commit and he just steps up again and says no.

That's true...he did dump Katie...rather unceremoniously, I might add. And that was at the low of the low times...when he realized that there was no future with Pam since they had set the date.

I did have this nightmare that Karen and Jim went on their "trip" and they went to Vegas...she got him drunk and then they got married. I woke up in a cold sweat!! NOOOOOOOOOO!

officeobsessed

Apr 30 2007, 05:06 PM

QUOTE (unshun @ Apr 30 2007, 12:48 PM)

Also let me know if you think I am stark raving mad. (The wind is currently north by northwest.)

Nope. Sounds perfectly sane to me!

QUOTE (ladama @ Apr 30 2007, 12:56 PM)

...Anyway, that was a long time ago, and you are right, at the time she was not interested in anything more than friendship....

...The only way she could allow herself to have the relationship she had with Jim was to constantly tell herself it was friendship, nothing more...

After reading your quote it's no wonder Pam was in such turmoil. I disagree that she was not interested in anything more than friendship. I think she felt more than that toward Jim from the start but because of her moral center, whenever anyone else picked up on that (think Meredith in The Fight and Phyllis in E-mail Surveilliance) she retreated to proving to herself and others it was just friendship.

QUOTE (Vinny V. @ Apr 30 2007, 01:39 PM)

This is why nothing can take the place of a direct confession from Pam, and soon. We all seem to be in agreement on that.

I love this song!

QUOTE

Actually, I am of the belief that she always had feelings for Jim and was very interested in more than friendship, but out of obligation and moral dilemma she never acted on those feelings.

Agreed, but again I see this as emotional dishonesty. You don't flirt with and kiss someone back when they kiss you if you're not interested.

Absolutely. See my statement above.

QUOTE (unshun @ Apr 30 2007, 04:47 PM)

I would give Jim more credit than that. Think about Booze Cruise, after Roy sets the wedding date Jim has every reason to throw himself into his relationship with Katie. Riding the emotional high of the Roy-Pam re-engagement Katie starts talking seriously about the future with Jim. Jim knows this isn't what he wants and ends it so fast Katie had no idea what hit her. Have faith Jim will not settle. It wouldn't surprise me if Karen's undoing is pushing Jim to commit and he just steps up again and says no.

I agree. Karen just hasn't pushed him to that point yet. But Vinny V. is right. It won't make an iota of difference if Pam doesn't step up herself and give jim full disclosure.

Beeswax_Not_Yours_Inc.

Apr 30 2007, 05:06 PM

QUOTE (OfficeObsessed @ Apr 30 2007, 05:35 PM)

I agree with everything you are saying, but I can still be sad, right? That is why I came here for JAM therapy.

And when I say Jim has given up, I also see his resignation to a passionless, dead-end relationship with Karen as a manifestation of his surrender. It's as if he's given up on the hope of being happy. It's just plain sad.

I think in terms of emotional happiness, Jim is where Pam was in S2. He is with someone that is good, not great. He is probably thinking the same way Pam was thinking. That life is about settling and dreams are just that, dreams. He tried going for his dream and was shot down, so there's no point in putting in the effort.

I think he will be in for a big surprise soon. Pam is going to make life beyond good for Jim.

QUOTE (unshun @ Apr 30 2007, 05:47 PM)

I would give Jim more credit than that. Think about Booze Cruise, after Roy sets the wedding date Jim has every reason to throw himself into his relationship with Katie. Riding the emotional high of the Roy-Pam re-engagement Katie starts talking seriously about the future with Jim. Jim knows this isn't what he wants and ends it so fast Katie had no idea what hit her. Have faith Jim will not settle. It wouldn't surprise me if Karen's undoing is pushing Jim to commit and he just steps up again and says no.

I agree, but it will take Karen pushing it or Pam laying it on the line for him to make a big change in his life. I'm just worried about the order of these events happening. If Pam doesn't let Jim know her feelings before Karen pushes the relationship, we might have a complication. I can see Jim getting caught up in the "letting go of Pam" phase and if Karen approaches him with the right offer, he may take her up on it just to bury the past and heartache for good.

Fingers and toes crossed, everyone!

Beeswax_Not_Yours_Inc.

Apr 30 2007, 05:11 PM

QUOTE (sedimentary @ Apr 30 2007, 05:41 PM)

Isn't that just the saddest thing you have ever heard? Well, except for "I can't."

Has anyone seen (I think it's called) Housesitter with Goldie Hawn and Steve Martin and Dana Delaney? Where Dana Delaney is talking about Steve Martin's character being a dreamer and that when she sees him through Goldie Hawn's eyes, that she realizes that a dreamer with someone who believes in them can do great things. Sorry if I didn't get that quite right...

That's Pam...once she gets with Jim, she can do great things. (even if the the great things are only with Jim-wink wink). In all seriousness, if she ends up with Jim and never gets the house with the terrace, I doubt she'd be crying like she was in the TH. She just needs to "grow a pair" and tell him already. How could it get any worse than it is now?? Unless she just WANTS to forever be friends...

I just looked up the quote from Housesitter on imdb:

Becky: Do you know why I said no to you that day? It's because you scared me, building this house, putting a big ribbon around it... I didn't want to marry a dreamer. I'm not that brave. But when I see you through Gwen's eyes you look very different to me.

Newton: How?

Becky: Well, I could see how a dreamer, with somebody who believes in him, could do great things.

Nice connection, sedimentary!

sedimentary

Apr 30 2007, 05:15 PM

QUOTE (Beeswax Not Yours Inc. @ Apr 30 2007, 05:11 PM)

I just looked up the quote from Housesitter on imdb:

Becky: Do you know why I said no to you that day? It's because you scared me, building this house, putting a big ribbon around it... I didn't want to marry a dreamer. I'm not that brave. But when I see you through Gwen's eyes you look very different to me.

Newton: How?

Becky: Well, I could see how a dreamer, with somebody who believes in him, could do great things.

Nice connection, sedimentary!

Thanks for looking that up for me...it's been forever since I saw that movie...but that popped into my head with the talk of Terrace Dreams! I see good things coming...fingers, toes and eyes crossed!

jamonmybread

Apr 30 2007, 05:16 PM

QUOTE (unshun @ Apr 30 2007, 04:47 PM)

I would give Jim more credit than that. Think about Booze Cruise, after Roy sets the wedding date Jim has every reason to throw himself into his relationship with Katie. Riding the emotional high of the Roy-Pam re-engagement Katie starts talking seriously about the future with Jim. Jim knows this isn't what he wants and ends it so fast Katie had no idea what hit her. Have faith Jim will not settle. It wouldn't surprise me if Karen's undoing is pushing Jim to commit and he just steps up again and says no.

Wow. You are right. But let's see. What made Jim dump her like that? It was a major event, like Pam's "real" engagement. That means...will he do the same if Pam creates the major event by telling him how she feels? We all know that Karen is merely there to pass the time till he has some sort of life-altering event.

herecomestrouble

Apr 30 2007, 06:26 PM

Karen has already kind of given Jim the type of stimulus that Katy gave him that (with Katy) jerked him out of his funk. The five long nights of talks, the "do you still have feelings for her?", the inevitable talking after the Roy debaucle --- all of those things were far more pushy on Karen's part, than Katy's "Do you think that will ever be us? Why did you even bring me here?"

This just goes to show that Jim's commitment to making his relationship with Karen work goes a little deeper than the one with Katy did.

Sorry if that bums you out. But I dont think it means he wont't leave Karen, just that it wont be from the same impetus for which he dumped Katy. Karen has already gone above and beyond that.

ushoulddunder2

Apr 30 2007, 06:29 PM

QUOTE (Vinny V. @ Apr 29 2007, 08:59 PM)

Agreed. Also ironically I just mentioned that very issue in my response to SB's analysis in the Pam Dichotomy thread tonight.

Dare I say it.... Great minds think alike.

I'm heading over to the PD thread to checkout your posts. I've read a lot of your stuff and find your points are articulate and thought out very well.

Vinny_V.

Apr 30 2007, 06:32 PM

QUOTE (ushoulddunder2 @ Apr 30 2007, 06:29 PM)

Dare I say it.... Great minds think alike.

I'm heading over to the PD thread to checkout your posts. I've read a lot of your stuff and find your points are articulate and thought out very well.

Thanks! I seem to get as much heat for what I say as props, but it's all good.