Hey, Jazzman - this back-and-forth kind of cracked me up because it is the same debate I regularly have with my husband. I think that men - particularly men of European/Anglo descent - are the targets of all sorts of humor simply because they are the people in power. It's a way to level the perceived and real inequalities that exist.

For example, it's perfectly (societally) appropriate to mock the US president when he makes a bumbling hash out of the English language. What is funnier than clownish incompetence exhibited by the perceived "leader of the free world"? However, take another man, same age and ethnicity, but make him homeless and completely powerless. If he jacks up the exact same sentence, it isn't funny at all. Why poke fun at someone who doesn't have the power to poke back?

Frankly, blonde jokes are basically the same thing. Blondes are perceived to have some extra power because of their alleged beauty (which supposedly helps them win out over more competent and deserving brunettes in a sexist world). So, what is better fun than to mock these "privileged ones"?

I can just about guarantee that if there were ever equality in pay, representation, and opportunity, the humorous (and not-so) war between the sexes would go away. But for now, when I earn $.73 for every dollar an equally skilled male earns, I'll be happy to point out their foibles. It makes me feel a lot better about my role in an otherwise completely biased, unequal society...


----

Oh, and for the record, if a man is described as a dog, it's often because of his success with (and commensurate lack of respect for) females. There is a grudging kind of admiration in the term. When a woman is described as a "female dog" there is nothing flattering in the term at all. She is considered to be exhibiting every characteristic that counters the male ideal of femininity: mouthy, strong, unwilling to tolerate garbage. In a man, those characteristics would make him strong - a leader. In a woman, those make her simply unpleasant.

And guys wonder why we make fun of them!

Ok, so now that we are even, i say i do have to agree with Jazzman. The current state of western, namely US culture is rough for the man. If you take a look at the culture of this country, the male is portrayed as a dumb, bumbling idiot. The culture imasculates the male. Even the office does it to quite a large extent.

The only strongly male figure in the show that is regarded as intelligent is also viewed as somewhat duplicitous and that is Ryan.

Michael is as stupid as they come. He does have skills as far a sales, but even then he is treated as an idiot savant. He is also the most immasculated figure on the show. He is totally subservian to Jan and even when he gets the stones to dump her, he reconsiders because she gets new boobs.

Dwight, who is quite intelligent is viewed as socially retarded and facist.

Kevin is stupid as well as a horn dog.

Oscar is gay.

Stanley is apathetic.

Andy has no control over his emotions as well as being duplicitous and a suck up

Creed is just Creed. Old, wasted, horn dog, no morals.

Packer is stupid and a horn dog.

Jim is not a good example for men. Jim is what women want men to be.


And dont forget, this is supposed to be the prototypical american workplace. So what message are we sending here? Men are stupid and horn dogs? That is the message that i get.



Then again, we make a dollar on the dollar and women only make 75 cents on the dollar, so...

I do not believe calling a man a 'dog' has any suggests any redeeming qualities at all. To me it means that he is driven by his sexual urges with no regard to his mind.


And i think b|tch just means someone who is aggressively unpleasant. I dont think Hillary Clinton is a B|tch, however i do think Anne Coulter is one.

^^^

Are you kidding? If you're feeling bashed by portrayals in TO, what about the women?

- Pam - smart but unmotivated. Weak. Mousy. Not even that good at the art she loves. Never allowed to forget her "place" and relegated to taking care of the men. Always. No future for her, because she's just going to get married and have babies.

- Angela - uptight, unpleasant, myopic to the point of blind about her religious beliefs (and completely intolerant of everyone else). She loves cats. She hates people. Try to find two nice things to say about Angela - there is no way you can.

- Kelly - ignorant, boy-crazy, ditzy. The entire office times her on how long she can be stupid. All she wants is to get married and have a baby so she can name it "Usher."

- "MaryBeth"/Meredith - a drunk s!ut. Negligent mother. Terrible driver. Ouch!

- Karen - as one of the more balanced characters to ever hit the show, she has been shown to be unfair, manipulative, unkind. She lies. She cheats. She is as hated as a character can be.

- Jan - "a real horndog" (a quote from this board). Her once promising career is in flames because she is so neurotic. Can't keep a man. Gets breast-augmentation surgery to try to. Who is more pathetic than Jan? No one.

Frankly, the only female character who is portrayed nicely at all is Phyllis. She is the most real character on the show. She is perhaps the only one who is treated well, and is shown to be competent.

Roy, you just elevated yourself to "favorite person status" with this sentence! I will never male-bash you!

I dont feel you can discredit the steps pam has taken this season. Towards the end of this season, i believe she has become a fine example.


Also, who do you blame pam's timidness and unmotivation on? Roy. He was the one holding her back like when she wanted to get the internship in new york.

You forgot - unrealistically hot!

The writers could have at least given her some bad qualities.

Me-owch!







( )

Excellent. No wonder she liked it. Who doesn't love watching the Fighting Irish get their azzes handed to them.

Me

I even sat in the cadet section as a little kid at the U.S. Air Force Academy stadium and watched Joe Montana dismantle the Falcons. I was hit with paper airplanes the whole game

I was the lone person in Colorado screaming 'Yes!' when Rocket Ismail ran back a kickoff to pull ahead of the Colorado Buffaloes for the national championship. Then came the phantom holding call 5 seconds after the play

Alright, let me rephrase that. Who doesn't love watching the Fighting Irish get their azzes handed to them other than Irish fans.

There is only one thing in this world more evil than Notre Dame Football. Terrorists.

Yup, this is a bad year for Golden Dome fans. But I get teased about being a fan even with the Irish are decent

^^^Boys, do you need to take a trip to the "Sports" thread?

While you both have some very good points that I agree with, realistically you could say this about anyone. In one fashion or another (more or less) we all share these qualities.

Often the bad characteristics that people have outshine the good and are the ones people focus most on.

I think it pretty much evens out; The portrayals of men vs the women in The Office (obviously...not the best characteristics)

.....just think of what could be said about you.

you don't have to take care of anyone else when they get sick. here I go tonite being nurse maid

A gay man could tell her that, and get away with it.

Which friend is this?


Link please!

Awesome: I had a terrific date with the most incredible girl last night.

Awful: She doesn't want a second one because we don't practice the same religion.

I knew I should have lied about that.

Now that I think about it, I should have known something was up when she ordered one of the cheapest items on the menu.

No, it was not the gourmet hotdog.

Her loss Diapers! Keep on fighting the good fight!

love is war!

I find it amazing that some people are like the girl diapers went out with. I guess religion is still a big factor in making a realtionship

What was her religion? And if it was so important to her, she should have asked you about it before she agreed to go out with you.

*whispers* Diapers is still single.

It is.



I agree with VB though, if it was so important to her she should have mentioned it prior.

Diapers can't post right now, so he asked me to do it for him. This is cut and pasted:

It's not necessarily about religion per se. It's a cultural thing. She wants her kids to be raised the way she, her parents, grandparents, and etc. were raised. To bring them up any differently would be to let down her entire family. I wouldn't have stood in the way of that, but it helps if both parents are fully on board. For the record, she had mentioned it ahead of time, but wasn't sure if it would be a deal-breaker. We talked about family a lot during our date, and that probably made her realize what a big deal it would be to bring somebody into the family who was different than everybody else.

I'm not mad at her. I'm upset that it didn't work out. I still think she's a great girl and we're probably both missing out on something special.

He also asked me to say this-



She was amish. She said my motorcycle was a tool of satan. That was the last straw.





Also, Roy is awesome. Way better than me.



That is all.

Oh yeah. I forgot that part.

That is why he keeps CC'ing me things that have nothing to do with me.

*sigh* Dating is hard. Especially when you're older, and looking for someone to build a life/family with. There are a lot more non-negotiables, as you begin to understand yourself more and more, what you will embrace, what you will put-up-with, and what you won't tolerate.

It's weird that we get pickier as we get older, because when you're 20, 'Til death do us part' is a loooooong tim. At 40, that 'Til death do us part,' just isn't that far away anymore.

Remember how I mentioned that cute guy who apparently took drugs a while back? Well, apparently he landed a role in that new show "Aliens in America" & he's supposed to be in episode 9 or 10. Anyway, once he confirms his role with me, I'll say it here so you all can see what he looks like. I'm actually kinda excited...

being raised differently and wanting to raise kids how you were is a huge deal. It's patrly why my jerk brother and his GF are splitting. It's why the brit and I are getting annoyed with each other over his daugther.

I could never be with someone very religious. I'm just not a firm believer. I am interested in learning things about religion but I'm not committed to being apart of one. The brit is the same way, so we don't fight about that. My ex was catholic and he always used to get me to go to church. I never did and it was always a awful fight

I think this group is a good idea and I just wanted to say hi to everyone. It's nice to discuss the single life with others and share experiences. I do like the freedom of the single life though sometimes it gets lonely. I do hate the societal stigma that is attached to single people though, as if there must be something wrong with them that leads them toward the single life. Well, I rambled more than I had intended to, but I just wanted to say hi....so hi.

P.S. Go Packers!

^ Welcome . I like your insight on the single life & yes, it does get lonely but at the same time we get to discover ourselves in a way that we couldn't with a bf/gf at our side.

Tonight at my friends birthday I met a gorgeous foreign exchange from Brazil. He couldn't speak English very well but phew, his accent made me melt . I can't remember his name but I do know that he's here for 6 months, & that's he not getting away. He was there because my friends aunt & uncle are having him stay in their house so I asked her to pass on just my email address to him. I think I picked up on some vibes, or maybe it was wisful thinking. Ooh, and he looks like Michael Bubble . I got so giddy around him, but none of my friends noticed . All I gotta do is see what happens next...

You know VB I had never been one of those girls who thought forever was a long time and I could be alittle more picky. I think you right that most girls are that way.

oh PIP men with accents are so yum. When the brit opened his mouth and that deep english accent came out I just had to bite my lip. I know what ya mean

I wonder if it is the reverse too. I wonder if i go to england or someplace, will they fawn over my american accent as you women do to the brits or just about anyplace other than here.

Our cultural class was on accents today and we watched a video that talked about how certian people were attracted to certian accents.

This guy said he would change his accent according to what made certian women "hot for him". I was just thinking WOW some men will do anything, eh?

And women won't????

Where do I begin? (now, that's got a sappy song written all over it...) Botox, padded bras, makeup in general, "no, just a salad, thanks"... the list goes on and on.

BTW: why do men give women chocolates for Valentine's Day when all the women go on about is how much weight they're putting on?? Looks like a disconnect from here.....

Okay granted some women do that...I am just not one of them.. but yes women do do that. But most of the time women are doing that to impress and look better than other women. I knwo that when I am going out with a bunch of girls I dress up more then when I am going out with a group of guys.


Oh and I so agree about the chocolates for Valentine's Day! If you ask for chocolate do not whine when you gain weight!

On the whole I hate Valentine's Day, and NO it is not becasue I do not have someone to spend it with. it is becasue my birthday is right after V-day, and I never get any good presents becasue of it. I always tell people ( my BF to be exact) that if you want to buy me something nice save it for my birthday. I would rather just get a card on V-day then get nothing on my Birthday.

Also I really think Valentine's Day is just a day that men go crazy trying to get it all right and womens expectations are never met.

I think opinions on Valentine's Day change depending on where you are emotionally. When I was kind of seeing my husband, he told me he "might" stop by the local bar. That resulted in me sitting at the bar, waiting for him to show up, which he never did. It also resulted in me saying to him the next day, "I don't know what made me feel worse, the fact that you didn't show up, or the fact that I was stupid enough to believe that you might". You know, typical drama, broken heart, he didn't even show, end of the world. Fast foward seven years. This year we went to dinner the night before because it is easier to get a table, bought each other some cards and called it a day.

Too much stock is put in that day. Send me flowers on a random Monday and it will mean more to me than you buying me a car because the calendar says you have to.

Agreed!!

I know on V-day my ex forgot to get me anything and I was heart broken. I mean I really thought he was going to be romantic and get me something.

The next day his best friend brought me one single red rose and said for you becasue getting a rose on Valentine's day you are just like any other women, but getting a rose on a random day makes you a princess in more then just one man's eye. From that moment on Valentine's day has no meaning to me.

( And people wonder why I broke up with my ex.. and well you can figure the rest out on your own... that was not one of my better moments)

Um, I meant a card. No one needs to buy me a car, thank you!!

Hey, Pam, pretty smooth line by the best friend--I like it!!

It does Roy. I'm married and thus not out looking for women, but I've had a few 'I like the way you talk' comments over in Europe.

Judging from your podcast, you have one of those smooth fm radio dj type voices, so I think you'd have some luck with your accent over there.

Speaking for myself, a woman with an English, Irish or Welsh accent can turn me to butter. On the other hand, all my nasal twang seems to do is to send the ladies fleeing in droves...

We must think of the same wave lenght becasue I read it as card!

I know.. he was a regular Jim Halpert!

The things he said and did are ones for the record book!

The problem is when your boyfriend leaves for a month and a half to go to Peru and the girlfriend and best friend get a little to comfertable with eachother. ( i.e. Pam and Jim)

I have to tell you the story of what he did when my ex told me I needed to lose some weight... when I come back from class!

Me too I once had the pleasure of having a short casual conversation with Sinead O'Connor (no sarcasm, she's a very nice lady). Wow!!! She has a very pleasant and sweet Irish accent. On tv her voice sounds very nice, but in person it's very breathy and soft (a quality not heard on tv or the radio).

I have zero attraction to Sinead O'Connor, but after hearing her voice but knees started shaking and I was getting a little smitten.

So I do not know what to make of this...

There have been boys asking me out and I say NO.. I am way to happy being single. Right now there is no way in he11 I want to be attached.

Then today I get a PM from " best friend/jim" who is mentioned above.. and suddenly my heart is screaming lets go on a date.. and my mind is saying no.. no boys.. you do not want to date remember.

why does he always show up just when I have it all under control?

^^


You don't have it all under control. You think you do. You want to date. Do it.

HAHAHA.. oh I KNOW I do not have it all under control.. but I do feel better telling my self that!

No, you see he just said hey how is it going and wished me a really belated happy birthday.. he said nothing else.. I on the other hand gave him my e-mail and told him to send me a line sometime. Thinking in my head all the girly things we think.. you know the stuff that gets us in trouble.

( and the guys asking me out.. not worth it I swear.. I mean can you say clingly?)

ewww some guys take polite for I want you. I feel for ya pam.

I couldn't get over how guys in london would react when they would hear my friend and I talking. I'm standing there really to melt to the ground over their dishy accent and they keep saying to us, you've got a lovely accent.

A good voice is important. I think I'm lucky. I've had guys in my life tell me I have a very nice voice. When I had to cancel a account, the guy on the phone started hitting on me and by the end was calling me baby and telling me he'd pay my bill if I just took his number and got to know him better. Those are scary moments of being single to me

Roy, fact: women love accents.

Thank you. . That is true. I hate how some people must rely on their significant others to define who they are. One should develop a sense of identity without having to rely on a significant other.

But yeah, I LOVE accents! I especially love british, scottish and Australian accents. I would be giddy around a guy with an accent as well, which makes me nervous, and I turn into a klutz. Very embarrassing.

certain word as well sound so much better when there is a accent. My fiance is english. When he says No. I just giggle. It's stupid but those little things are so hot. I've never been a fan of the french accent though. welcome aboard KM

I totally agree with you. And WELCOME!



In regards to an accent, sure they are great and all..but I just as much prefer a masculine smooth and deep voice, but not too deep. I dated a guy who's voice was soooo deep, you could hear him from 100 feet away and know it was him. Hmm...although I did like it, especially when he whispered so never mind I suppose.