I would like to make it known that I never dress like a sl ut. Ever. (Well...certain situations ). My dress style has been pointed out as being "classy." Certainly we want to look pretty to attract guys...that's usually how you get their attention in the first place, but you can get that attention through dressing well...not like a sl ut.

Don't forget posture and mannerisms too Sharpie!

Those are both underrated aspects of attraction. I had always heard stereotypes of women from certain countries being 'sexier'. When I visited these countries, I noticed that the women aren't physically any more attractive, but they did generally have more attractive mannerisms.

Rebelling really only happens if your kids aren't allowed to have an outside life. I have a friend who's parents won't allow her to date, be out past 7pm, sleep over at people's houses, and I don't think she's allowed to go shopping without a parent or her sister present. She's already starting to do things to make her parents mad because she's sick of being locked at home to do schoolwork.

I never get to see her either, or talk since she gets 10 minutes of calls a day.

A lot of times that rebellion comes from teaching rules without values. Most of the kids I grew up with never rebelled because although we lived by what most people would refer to as "strict" rules, our parents taught us the values behind them.
There is a difference between telling your kid "you can't wear that because you'll look like a s1ut" as opposed to teaching your children from a young age to be modest and respect their bodies. I've seen little girls (starting at toddler age) in little skimpy bikinis, midriffs, miniskirts, etc. If their parents dress them like that now, how are they going to tell them that's too revealing when they're sixteen? It's something that has to be taught from the time they're young.

wow, I just said alittle cleveage. I get this picture in my head your all thinking of boobs falling out of their tops As a woman who can't help but have alittle clevage and fills out a sweater nicely, I think it's wrong to sterotype larger boobs. I am a young woman who wears skirts to her knees, the boobs are always inside a shirt, nothing see through, no suggestive hems and I always wear my undies.

RE: Shadows
I thought this had to do with waxing ones upper lip or something.
Like no moms can look like she has a caterpillar on her lip as it would scare the kids.

As far as cruzin' Best Buy...for a woman that wouldn't work around here...it's dork central and I proudly include myself in that group of dorks.

They have really taken to heart "geek squad", that being said there is a hot geek squad girl working at the Best Buy by me. Sort of Goth/Punk meets Geek Squad.

I agree those are the kind of things that will make a kid rebel. My parents were strict but I was able to do things so I would say I am not a rebellious child. Though I have done some dumb things though what boy hasn't tried to master how snowboard on a sled etc.



I sort of resent that since I was the sort of geek squad at Staples. Though it is true.

At target the guy started to scan all my items and he said hi all nice and pleasant then we made eye contact and he actually tired to back pedal from a how are you. I had to chuckle to myself in the car. Only a BF/GF will think you are hot even when your sick.

rebelling doesn't always come from over strict parents. Kids just do things either cause it's trendy, peer pressure or trying not to turn out like their parents. Parents have a lot to do with shaping their kids personalities and need to take charge when it's needed, trust me I know. I know I'm the odd one out on this. I just see things differently coming from my own experince.

No, Liz, you know I have your back here, too! When Jay came to us in July, he was a 5 year old who was still drinking from a bottle, still having his mother wipe his a$$, wouldn't even put his shoes on (not talking about tieing them, just putting them on), would not do ANYTHING. Why? Because parents of the year enabled him and did everything for him (on the rare occassions they were around) out of their own guilt for being the white trash addicts that they are. Anyway, Tom & I told him no, you need to do it on your own, we will show you once and you will go from there. And wouldn't you know, this kid didn't even need us to show him how to do things. He was just taking advantage. JUst like when he sneezed and they would keep him out of school for three days. Tried that with us, I told him that he was still going to school, sneezing or not. Again, another miracle, the dramatic sneezing stopped.

Like Liz said, kids follow the parents' examples. In the case of little girls dressing suggestively, yeah, they will probably grow up to be teenagers dressing suggestively. Parents have to start early and start right.

^^ thanks wedd. I really appericate it. My own experince was my dad always used to say things like your a s1ut and a wh0re and you'll be a teenage mother cause you'll screw anything. I was 10 at the time. I never dressed wild or like a s1ut. In fact I was in drama, choir,I played nearly every sport, cheered, and did history day and I was in orchestra. So my dad used to rule me with a iron fist literally and I never did dressed wildly, drank, smoked or had sex. Thats why I said from my own point of view kids do things cause there are many reasons.

Wedd, I think your doing a great job with jay, you show him by example and with you and tom together, he's going to turn out okay.

just remember you can only teach your kids so far then they start making their own choices and you have to hope that you've taught them well enough that they will make the right choices.

Now did anyone meet anyone at the convention???? A little love connection?

Hmm... There might of been a couple of sparks.. but that also could of been in my imagination!

Actually my "Jim" e-mailed me the first day of the convention and I have yet to e-mail him back because he could wait. I feel a little sad that maybe he is losing some of his charm. I do not know if it is just that his personality does not come through e-mail or if maybe he is not like he used to be. I think I might tell him about the convention and see what he says.

man I am a girl.. I am going to use the test question on a boy to see if he is good material.. oh dear..

That's a good idea. You obviously had a great time at the convention and it was very important to you. See what his reaction is--if he's interested in you, he should be interested in hearing about something that meant so much to you!

That's not exactly the way reverse psychology is supposed to be applied. Wow--that is just bad. There are better ways to bring the subject up. That must have been rough--I'm sorry.

did you get a phone number pam?

all sort of things were brought up when my dad was around. I guess I was lucky to be in shock and didn't up with 6 kids by now.

phone number..not really and I feel weird giving mine first. He writes me freaking books so I do not know what to think. I do not even know if I want to start something again. Do I want to re start this relationship if I have the opportunity?

if you have doubts then deep down porberly not pam. You can see what happens until you make up your mind for sure

I’m not sure if this is a vent or not, but it's about married behavior in a way, so I guess this is the best place for it.

Something kinda weird happened tonight. I work Saturdays, and I get off of pretty late (around 10 pm). A male co-worker, married, called me tonight and said he knew I was about to get off, he was bored out of his mind, would I like to meet him for coffee. I was kinda surprised, so I made up some lame excuse, we joked about it, and that was that. At first I tried to shrug it off as nothing, but the more I think about it, the more it bothers me. And it left me feeling weird. Kinda...squicky. I’ve only ever been friendly with him. No flirting or anything that could even be conceived of as flirting. (I can’t even flirt with the guys I do like.) Just very surfacey conversations now and then.

On the other hand, he has a reputation in the office for being very flirtatious, and I've heard rumors he's had some complaints against him from other women. Maybe it was just friendly coffee, and I’m a big old prude. But thinking back on it, I remembered that earlier in the day he had asked me what time I got off, and what I was doing after work. I didn’t even think about it being odd! I thought it was just friendly conversation. Maybe it was...I don’t know! Gah. But then again I do know if I was married, I’d have a major problem with my husband asking a single woman to go for coffee, outside of work, late on a Saturday night, even if his intentions were truly harmless. Am I old fashioned? Did I mis-read something? Did I give him signals mistakenly? I don’t know.

I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know. Now I just feel weird, and very sad, and horribly guilty for something I don’t even think I did wrong.

You really shouldn't beat yourself up over it. It wasn't you who initiated anything so why should you feel guilty.

^^^

Oh my goodness! Don't feel guilty! What you did was totally the right thing, IMO. I would have done the exact same thing. I love how he asked you earlier what time you got off work and all and then called and used the excuse that he was bored out of his mind in order to get you to go with him. It was obviously premeditated. I would avoid him. But please don't feel bad about it! It was him, not you!

Absolutely, I agree with the two wise people above me. Coffee with a married amn you work with, Maaaybe if you have the same break time, and if he didn't have his history. But late on a Saturday night? No way - he had something more than coffee on his mind. And this is in no way your fault!!!

From now on, if he says anything to you about what you're doing when you're not working, you have plans. Those plans may be to curl up with a good book, or get on the boards with us, or bake some brownies, but they are your personal private plans, and he is not invited.

I hate skeevy pervs.

This married person wants to reassure you that your squicky radar was working just fine. Was it okay for this married man to ask you out for coffee? . . . NO! Did he have inappropriate motivations? . . . YES! You absolutely did the right thing. Continue to steer clear of this guy as much as possible, he obviously has issues, even if he appears pretty normal. And in case I haven't be clear, I would kill my husband if he invited another woman anywhere after work alone. Married people aren't supposed to do this. You feel icky because you're a decent person, and your radar was clanging away, and you'd been drawn into his ickiness. Nice guy for doing that to you.

QoE,

As a married man, I can tell you that your radar is 100% right.

Asking you out for coffee after work doesn't sit right with me at all. Taking breaks at work in the break room is fine, but even that can be troublesome as well if it becomes a habit.

The fact that he has a reputation for being flirtatious is a huge red flag!

I like talking 'The Office' with many women here, but there is no way I'd be going out to coffee with any of you. That would be weird for me, the woman and disrespectful to Mrs RC. My Pam gushing may even be crossing the line, but it's along the same lines as the Clint Eastwood gushing Mrs RC does, so she just laughs it off.

Don't feel sad or guilty QoE! You're a really nice person and he may be trying to take advantage of your kindness. Keep away from him!

Even if you did give him a signal (which I know you didn't), he's MARRIED and he is supposed to ignore it. That's what the ring and the vows are for.



EXACTLY! You're married, you can have friends of the opposite sex, but a Sat night coffee date is UNACCEPTABLE.




Yeah, it's just not right. You are totally innocent and you should avoid this guy as much as possible.

Thank you guys so much. I think part of the reason I was feeling guilty was for even suspecting he might have had something else on his mind. I always try to think the best of people, so having to suspect him made me feel bad for even thinking it, not to mention sad because previously I'd thought he was just a nice guy. Sometimes I feel a little old-fashioned the way I see the world and I thought maybe I was just being too sensetive. Hearing from you guys, no offense to the other singles , but hearing especially from you married people how wrong it was makes me feel better. Now I'm just dreading going back into work and running into him.

Look at it this way - you may just have more respect for his marriage than he does. Even if he didn't have anything inappropriate in mind (which is a long shot) I'm sure his wife would have objected. You can hold your head high at work this week.

I hope he's embarrassed and ashamed. I've been thinking about this, and it occurred to me that a man who is committed to his marriage would be going out of his way to avoid situations that might even look the least bit questionable...not go looking for them.
And don't feel bad if he's walking around work with his tail between his legs (maybe not the best metaphor) but you're not responsible for that either.

Ugh, I worked with a guy like that once. I actually didn't realize he was married for over two months because he was constantly hitting on all of the women on our floor. I was married too, but he would always seem to find reasons to come into my office, and would try to stick around. He definitely gave off the skeevy vibe. Finally I had my husband come into work one day during lunch and introduced them, just to give this guy the hint.

I think the brit broke up with me. No one is taking my calls. No one is in the hospitals I did check. But his lines are all turned off when I called him this morning when I got up. I don't know if I want to go and see whats going on. If he's not called and no one else is getting in touch with me then I don't want to make a fool of myself. I guess he chose his family over working things out.

Oh, liz.

Is it possible that the 12 year old got a hold of him and he is setting her straight right now? Can you call and see if she is in school today? It is pretty early in the day, maybe he is still sleeping. And since he did just have a heart attack, maybe you should go and check on him. If he's there, then have it out once and for all.

And if he did break up with you that way, well, that is just wrong and immature.

^I just can't bring myself to do that right now. I'm trying to just take the morning normally but if it's still like this in another hour or two then I'll be in bed crying myself to death over his brillant way to end it. Not even a reason, a bye or nothing

oh liz! I do not know even what to say.

I don't know where the brit is. I've not seen him and his cell phone is off completely. I can't even leave a message. I can't believe he'd end it like this. 3 years and its simply over? I won't be on tonight I don't think. All I want to do is just cry and cry. Now if you will excuse me there is a box of tissues that has my name on it.

Liz, why are you so sure that this means it is over? It's an inconsiderate thing to do, but I just can't accept that a grown man would end a 3 year relationship this way. There has to be another explanation.

I agree...I don't really think that's what's going on. He would at least tell you.

I just woke up, I've been drained. I know it seems like I am over reacting but this is what he does. When he cuts you out, it's like BAM! When we broke up once before he simply changed his phone number and avoided me at all costs. He didn't give me a reason. For over 2 months I had no idea. It wasn't until he called me that things were explained to me. He's just that type. Where is he? I don't know, does anyone tell me anything..no. He's a grown man who just does things in a black and white manner even if it doesn't make sense or isn't very mature. I will keep trying til tomorrow afternoon but if it's more of the same, I'm going to just give up. I don't have much of a choice

Sorry you're going through this liz. I can't believe he'd be so cowardly that he would just cut off all contact.

thank you. I don't know what to do really. Do I stalk him til I corner him to get answers? Do I leave him be? I feel ike breaking down all over again. I can smell him right now. I can smell his colonge as plain as day all around me.

Oh Liz. I feel bad for you. I wish I had the right words to say. I hope you get to talk to him soon and you get some answers. Try to get some rest in the meantime.

Oh lizzy, I am so sorry for what you are going through. But this not calling you stuff - that's just plain wrong and very immature. Adults discuss things. Adults make informed decisions. Adults make compromises. I know you are hurting and I hope things work out for you. You know we care about you.

lizzie, I know it's easy for me to say, but you can't force answers out of him. You really do just need to leave him be. It doesn't seem fair, but in the long run you'll be better off just giving him some space, and you'll feel better about yourself knowing that you behaved in a dignified manner.

I'm sorry.

Yeah, and he did that once before? That is very immature.




I agree with sammy. Let him be, as hard as it is, at least for another day. But if he goes two days without even making contact with you, then I think you deserve some answers and you should be able to go and get them.

In all honesty, you are a saint for forgiving him the first time he pulled that.

^^ agreed! Give it a couple of days, but I am just impressed that you were able to stay with him after he did this the first time. If you ever need to vent we are all here!

I got a text message from him around 5:40am today. First time I've heard from him in about 48 hours. Simply says, well I've done it this time, I've walked away from everything and everyone. I replied with, where are you, what do you mean? his response, I will talk to you later. No messages after that even though I stared at the phone willing it to send me another message. His phone is on but he's no answering my calls. voice mail kicks in, this phones voicemail is full try again later. He's left me and will proberly tell me later that it's too hard an we're over.

He's 40 something, right? This is not how a grown man acts, even given an allowance for a health scare. It's how his 12 year old daughter acts, and if he's taking advice from her, then God help him.

Liz, I am so sorry and I know you love him, but I also know that you do not deserve to be treated like this. I wouldn't let him off the hook that easily on this one when you do talk to him,whenever that may be. He needs to act like a man and not a teenage runaway.

As a married guy (20 years next March), I can't let this one go by without a response.

I think the knee-jerk reaction of many who posted responses to your orignal issue was misguided. Most of my friends were female at one time, but I've lost them one by one over the years for various reasons. It doesn't mean I was trying to hit on any of them. All it means is that I seem to relate better to women than to men.

It seems to me that posters are attributing ulterior motives to this guy which he may or may not have had. I'm not saying I can read his mind; maybe he did have 'intentions'. But let's not assume it. Maybe he just needed a female perspective on something, and didn't make that known very well. I'm not saying that's what happened or didn't happen. All I'm saying is that 2 different people will look at the same thing and come away with 2 radically different viewpoints. Or not.

Life is seldom so simple that anything is instantly obvious and has only one explanation.

Apply that to Liz's post above as well.

First off, congrats for nearly 20 years of marriage! That's quite an accomplishment! (Especially for Mrs. Jazzman ...I'm just teasing you. You have a great point here, but I think you also need to look at the situation a little bit more. Queenie isn't really friends with this guy. She also states that he is quite a flirt around the office. Coffee with a married friend may be ok during a work break or sometime in the morning or afternoon, but this guy actually asked her what time she got off of work and when that time came (hours later) he called her to ask her to go to coffee with him at 10:00 pm stating he was bored. Um.....does that not sound at least a little wierd to you? Especially given his apparent track record. If he needed a female perspective on something he could have asked her at a different time or asked someone with whom he was better aquainted. Queenie asked our opinion and given all the information she provided us with, I am not surprised at the (nearly) unanimous response.

I tried to call him, the phone rings, the voice mail message kicks in and hangs up on you since it's full...30 seconds later he texts me, I will talk to you later. I've got a shower in and my mom isn't here so it's not like I can go see if he's around since she took the car. I wish I hadn't sold my car now.
Wedd and Jazz you've given me some great advice. All I want is answers. I have this awful feeling that he's just taken off. I'll be upset if he did alone. And I'll be mad if he went with his daugther considering the last few months the strain of the realtionship has been her acting out. I'm not going to feel any better I've realized no matter what he says

Yay, congrats, Jazzman! My parents celebrated their 58th anniversary in May.

Anywhoo, I agree that there are 2 sides to this issue. However, 10pm on a Saturday night with a married man who is your boss? Nuh-uh. I have learned to never ignore that feeling of ickyness, call it intuition, or discernment, whatever, but it's better to heed the small voice inside you.

Well wherever he is his daughter BETTER be with him, (aside from school). He is her only (essentially) parent. He can't leave her behind. Think what that would do to the kid. I know you've had a bumpy history lately with her, but she's only 12, and only has one functioning parent.

who wants a bomb shell? I really think I'm going to go nuts. A series of 3 texts...
1) I just couldn't be bothered by no one and I had been ill. I made sure hat was ok an went. Hat is his daugther.
2) far away enough now.
3) I'm not talking to anyone right now.

Still won't take my calls. So what do I think? I think he took off to see his good friends who live far away. How far? I know he's left the country. Now all my texts are being ignored. I'm going freaking crazy and falling completely apart