Sharpie, do you know this girl at all? Maybe she needs a little warning about him.
I'm sorry he turned out to be like that. Sorry for you, not him.

So.. Even though that guy didn't come over yesterday we had a 2+ hour chat last night on AIM. It was pretty hilarious. We were talking about if he would've come over, and he asked if I would've cooked for him?? I said sure. And he said that he loved Jellybeans so I told him we had a whole bag of his favorite kind, and he said that if I gave them to him he would come over. I said come and get them.

I forgot to mention that this was the first time I had seen him since that fateful night 2 weeks ago...




I know I'm better than that and I am giving my all into letting this go...but when it's flaunted in your face, that is awfully hard to do.




I'd be glad to, but I deleted it. Just one of the many things I've done to put it all behind me.




You mean last night? I was going to leave, but then I thought that that would be stupid. I have to face it sometime, ya know? So he completely ignored me and I ignored him too, but a little later I commented on his bowling score and he replied like nothing had happened between us, and I said something later too and the same thing happened. He did not once meet my eyes though. He could never look me straight in the eye. Same with my best friend, who stared him down the whole night...he would never make eye contact with her.

Or do you mean since that event 2 weeks ago? Because I'll pm you about that if I haven't already. Let me know.





I don't know her at all...but she sure is beautiful. Sigh. But you know what? SO AM I! She does need a warning...but it's not my place to tell her (even though I've thought about it.)

And thank you, but you know what? I'm glad I found out all this stuff about him now instead of later down the line. I deserve a man with integrity and character and he has none of that.

Sharpie, I'm really sorry to hear what happened to you. If it makes you feel any better, I've been there. I had a very close guy friend of 10 years. I mean like, best friend, we were so close. I was having some issues w/my boyfriend, so the friend told me to break up with him because he could treat me better than he ever could, and that he was crazy about me, blah blah blah. So I almost did it. Come to find out, he had a girlfriend the whole time. I really thought I could trust this guy, and that something great was going to come of it...needless to say, I have one less friend.

And you are right! You do deserve someone so much better! So F him, and don't settle for anything less than you deserve!

I understand sharp. It will be hard to let go because of the situation that happened, but you will, it will just take time. It's very rare that you meet a man at any age who is a real man about relationships. Doesn't play games, takes your feelings lightly. Even when you find a good one it's not perfect.

Thats nice you had a chance to talk to him last night jam. It made me laugh that even at that age men are like you gonna cook?

Coward. He is soooo not worthy Sharpie. You deserve so much more.


You say that now.

No, I meant last night. I stand by my earlier statement.




Wait, what? What did I do?

ah I sent him a text can you come keep me company. No reply.
makes me think last night, my friend said to me. I don't know if I want to really get married after all. Maybe I'll just live with someone. What good comes out of marriage? Everyone seems so miserble when you are married. If he's getting the idea not to change things cause they are fine the way they are well it seems to me a waste of 3 years.

Please don't throw garbage at me, but I think a lot of marriages start to feel the strain when the kids arrive. Every decision you make has to be for their benefit, not for yours. A lot of people resent losing that freedom and there starts to be that well-I-do-more-than-you do issue. Tom and I lived together for 3 years before we were married and after the wedding, everyone was like, do you feel different and we were like, no, we're the same. And we were. The issues that we are having now are directly due to the stress of our situation. We are a little different because we didn't have time to prepare for Jay, but we are now dealing with things we never had to before and we are seeing some differences in how we feel about things. We still love each other so much, but what we really want is to be alone. Thankfully, that will happen someday, but that's not the case for everyone.

First of all there are no perfect marriages. I dont care what any happy happy joy joy couple says. Nothing in life is perfect. That is not me being sad or mean towards men, its just my statement.
I think marriage is like a rollercoaster, ups and downs, coasting and speeding up and slowing down and rinse and repeat.

Children always change the equation because they change you in a sense, whether you want to change or not. It doesnt mean your personality changes or you cant do what you did as a single/kidless person, but the subtle change is there!

Dont get me wrong I miss being single and kidless sometimes, I wont lie about that but in general I am pretty happy with stressful moments thrown at me by life.

My friend just goes back and forth on the good and bad of marriage. And then I get to thinking and the brits dragged his feet a few times and then ms. thang hasn't help.
It sucks cause I want to get married but the whole ready made family thing especially with a preteen makes me want to reach for the door at times.

I hope kids do change me, my own that is. I need to be more settled and focused.

You don't have to say d1ck. You can say dick.


I agree it's a huge transition time. Hubby and I had been married for 9 years when Supergirl came along. We still had to reevaluate sooooo many things about our relationship because of this tiny, third little person who'd joined us. Liz is already going through a bit of that with the Brit's daughter, but it's never quite the same until it's your very own kid in question.

Maybe your friend has only seen miserable marriages liz. . . .

Ohhhhh...I will keep that in mind!!

I was thinking that very thing. She may not listen, but I think she should be warned. Maybe your pastor?



He ignored you?????? What a jerk. Of course he couldn't make eye contact - he feels guilty. Also, you know how when you look straight at the sun, it's so bright and shining it hurts your eyes? That is also why he couldn't look at you, because you are bright and shining and beautiful, and it hurts his rotten eyes. As for your friend - he was afraid of her, as he should be.

You most certainly deserve a man of integrity and character, we all do. No more dating lame-ass men. We're too good for that! Don't lower your standards.

I didn't know we could say dick.

Ahh. Tomorrow should be awesome.

Veebs, you're so sweet. Next time I'm down in the dumps, I'm coming to you!

I know, right? How awesome is that? I see the words "dick" and "FOY" being used in the same sentence in the near future!

Ok.


Oooh, you may have to experiment with other adjectives as well.

I'm sorry to hear that Sharpie . You're better off without him, because it seems like that his balls haven't dropped yet. I guess he's being a dick to make up for a lack of well, I dunno if I can say it here . He's definitely a coward for avoiding eye contact. Would it have killed him to have said a simple hello? I bet he's kicking himself for not presenting an ounce of manners. You're way too smart, beautiful & witty to be with a dud like him. It sucks you had to find out that way but now, there's a guy out there waiting for you who is just ready to appreciate what a kick@ss woman you are. As for the current guy, he's obviously oblivious to the coolest person he can get. But, it's his loss for his mistake.

LMAO!

a wonderful afternoon with the brit I did catch him off guard we were both just quiet and sitting and out of no where I asked so have you ever made a xrated tape? He did choke on his drink and laughed til I thought he was going to pee himself. He asked where did I come up with that? I said just asking. The answer was no. And trust me when I say no tape will ever be made in the future. I thought I'd just catch him off guard.

Sharp you have to be reaching your limit of patience with him. I can't say what's going on in his head. Maybe he does feel bad for the situation and he can't go back to being friends like that cause things have changed. I'm not saying that in a bad way so don't get upset, but sometimes guy do get like that. But if he's not mature enough to talk to you then your better off and be the bigger person.

I love the idea of having a few kids with nick. But having a relationship with a person whos got a child with independent thoughts and all, that's beyond tough. She's made up her mind about me and I can't change it. When they are your own it's easier in a sense cause they are your kids and you understand their thinking and behaviors to a degree. She found out about me and from what her dad told her at first and stuff she was wasn't changing her Opinion of me

Did any of you ladies marry your highschool sweetheart? If so, do you regret not dating around before settling down? If not (or if so too I guess), would you recommend dating around before settling down? I've been so torn lately and just can't seem to figure out what's going to be right for me in my current situation. My bf and I dated in highschool for a year, and then started dating again 2 days before I graduated. It's now been 4 years, and I'm more lost than ever. Every little bit of advice helps

I married my high school sweetheart, but we had three years when we were apart in college and dated other people. When we got back together after college, I KNEW I wanted to be with him, not someone I had never had the chance to meet. If I had to do it over again, I would do it the same way.

It sounds like you answered you own question. Doesn't make it any easier though.

Hey, Minki (and by the way, I love how you got your name!) - I don't know if this qualifies, but I came very close to marrying my high school sweetheart (and he sounds a lot like yours - the man was a complete slob in all aspects of his life, and while he didn't have the long hair, he did develop really frightening hygiene problems, along with being the laziest person I'd ever met). In fact, he was basically a professional-looking "Roy" (he could pull his basic look together enough to hold down a job... you just didn't want to stand down wind of him).

After we'd dated for nearly five years, I just couldn't take it anymore. I was tired of living such a small life. About a year or so after we broke up, I met my now-husband (after dating a few other guys), and couldn't believe how much better life was because I was willing to shake things up. Weirdly, this new man and I also went to high school together. Old boyfriend had been a high school star - crazy smart, pretty popular, seemingly on the road to success. The moment he left high school, his long, slow decline started (and having seen him at our 20-year reunion, he just got worse and worse, and now resembles Jabba the Hut almost completely). My now-husband was a party boy in high school, with a rocking 1.1 GPA, and a reputation for being a complete pot-head. He's now a doctor.

I guess the point is, unless you see some possibility that this man can improve, why waste your life on being miserable, when doing so keeps you from enjoying your own life? It will be hard to build the life you want, if you are the only one doing the heavy lifting.

This is one of the more difficult kinds of decisions you will ever make, but you haven't been happy for a while. If he doesn't love you - or himself - enough to try to fix this, I think you have your answer.

Good luck to you, dear!

I know I've been so back and forth about it for so long. And unfortunately, I think the bottom line is that I'm just too scared to face the truth.

Wow. That is just wow. No wonder you are an editor. Brilliantly stated.




I think I may have went into this story before, so I will try to keep it short. From 16-23 I was with the same guy--he was 3 years older. He refused to take me to my prom because he "doesn't dance, doesn't like Manhattan, doesn't like my friends". He refused to do things for me that he wanted done for him. We never left the house. I would go there, he would play video games and I would sleep. Sex was boring and not right, which I didn't totally realize until I got with my husband. His door could only be locked from the inside, and his mom had a little dog, so I couldn't leave at the night or the dog would run away. On nights when I didn't want to do things, he would pretend to be asleep so that I was trapped there. And I would wind up doing them so that I could get the he11 out of there.

I knew, even before the prom thing that I needed to get out. But I stayed for five more years because I was afraid--I knew he would stalk me and his did, and I didn't want to hear my friends say I told you so. I kept giving him more and more chances but I was miserable. Then he got suicidal, and I was in college and working and I would say, I'm working until 9 and I have a final at 8 am, I'm staying in and he would say, then you may never see me again, and I would let him come over. On the rare occasions I didn't, he would just show up. My GPA should have been a lot higher than it was.

One New Year's he refused to go out and his parents stayed home. He went to the bathroom at 11:59--when the clock struck midnight his parents were sleeping on the couch, he was in the bathroom and I was alone. When he came back I said to him, "This is the last New Year's we are ever going to spend together and you missed it". And then I didn't break up with him until Dec 27, 11 months later because I couldn't live with myself anymore.

I'm not saying that what happened to me was normal, or what is going to happen to you, but I knew pretty early on that things weren't right, and I kept trying and trying and beating my head up against the wall for nothing. I wasted so much time. And that is even more evident today--I could have married Tom at least a year or two earlier (Tom and my ex were friends and Tom had trouble getting past that--it took him a long time to get over the fact we had been together for 7 years). Things may have been different. If we had married earlier his stupid sister wouldn't have been at our wedding. We could have had another year or two of solo happiness before we had to take Jay in. A lot would have been different if I had been strong enough.

If he is trying and you are trying, that is one thing. But if you're just trying and he's ignoring you, move on. After I finally left, my ex told me he wanted to marry me (when I said no is when the stalking started). Maybe leaving will make him realize what has been going on and he may come around. Then you can decide if you want to give him another chance or not. But if I had it to do all over again, when he refused to take me to the prom I would have walked away and never looked back.

Wow, Thank you! I couldn't have asked for better advice Very well put!

^^^

Wow, Wedd - you did have it bad with that clown! And our stories have some things in common, too. My ex refused to take me to prom as well (I ended up going with my best guy friend, and had a ball - one of the few times I ever acted smart during the dark years I was with this jerk). I seem to remember him saying that I wasn't worth the money he'd have to spend on it.

Yeah, nice.

And my ex became a crazy stalker too, to the extent that I had to get a restraining order after he broke into my house on one occasion, chased me in his car on another occasion (after waiting for me in the creepy dark parking garage where I worked), and then killed my dog.

It was so weird - in every other aspect of my life, I was direct and motivated and strong. Where he was concerned, I never found my footing, and was always miserable and tolerant of his truly awful behavior.

I'm really glad that we both survived these monstrous men, Wedd!

Wow Now that is just...wow. You and Wedd seem to have had it worse than my current situation, so if anything, this is definitely making me grow the kahonaies I need to make a decision before things get worse.

WOS, WTF? He killed your dog? We both have psycho exes and crappy fathers. That's a mistake you make only once. Thank God we are both out of that. Suddenly no floors and sick nephews don't seem that bad. Well.....

minki, let me tell you something about that suicide bullsh1t. One day, after I stood my ground and said no, I have a final and if you come over I am not opening the door, I came home from the final and called him. No answer. I called the entire neighborhoos searching for him ,frantic since the last words he said to me were "You'll never see me again. Goodbye".. Finally, I thought to go up to the park to see if he was watching night league softball. And there he was, sitting on the bleachers, smiling and laughing. I started screaming at him for scaring me and he yelled right back that I was embarrassing him. I stormed out of the park, and if I remember correctly, he didn't come by that night.

When we were close to breaking up I said to him "You never thanked me for calling in sick, missing school, not studying for finals, for doing everything I did when you were having a hard time". And he said, "I didn't realize your life was affected, I was the one going through the hard time"

Please run, okay?

I got chills when I read those words because he has said that to me before, and whether he means it or not, it is NOT something you say to someone to guilt them into staying with you. To guilt them into anything for that matter. And of course, he runs off to his friend's houses as soon as he says that too. Like nothing ever happened. While I'm sitting at home worried out of my mind.

Ugh!! I can't believe the feelings this conversation has brought out! I am running, don't worry, and thank you!

Wedd and Minki, I heard all of those claims about being suicidal as well. Wedd is completely correct - if that is one of the holds this guy is using over you, it is a clarion call to run fast and far away. That is a disgusting thing to do, and here is where you need to be really tough. Right now, it clearly sounds as if he's using this to manipulate you. However, if he were stupid enough to act on this (and I hate to be cynical, but my gut reaction and personal experience tell me that he might do something to make you think he's harming himself - even to the extent of doing something non-fatal for effect), this has nothing to do with you. It is all him. You are not responsible for him or his actions - he is.

Everything you write about this guy sounds broken. You have nothing to lose by stepping away from this - if leaving becomes the wake-up call he needs to get his life in order, then great. You then have the choice of whether you want to have the "improved" him in your life - or not. As it stands now, though, you seem to be staying for all the wrong reasons (even though your kindness and generosity speak very highly for you).

Choose what you want for once, and see how you like it. Any lonliness of being single is a whole lot easier to take than being smothered and unsatisfied because you are with the wrong person - in this case, a person who is an energy vampire, sucking all the life and happiness out of you because he's too lazy to find it for himself.

Whew - can you tell I feel strongly about this?!?

Yes WOS, very strongly! lol. But it is definitly the honesty that i need to get my a$$ out of this. Thank you girls so much for all of the words of advice...I have some big moves to make, so I'm off to bed to take everything in. Thank you!

jesus sammy he killed your dog? That is the scariest thing I've ever read. Glad you are out of that.

Min, I hope you reach your choice soon.

Awww minki! Saying those kinds of things is a HUGE alarm bell. It's not normal, it's not healthy. There are clearly some disturbing underlying issues, (maybe shown by the way he (doesn't) take care of himself). Listen to your gut! It's telling you the right thing. It's not a healthy place to be. Take care honey.

So true!!! Why do we make such bad choices????

Bottom line, if someone is trying to manipulate you into doing something you don't want to do, get out.


I dated 2 guys who ended up stalking me, but nothing, and I mean nothing they threatened to do, or did after I broke up with them, compared to the relief I felt because I was no longer trapped in that relationship. I didn't realize how oppressed I was until I got out of the relationship and could breathe again. Just do it, and your true strength will start to shine.

All the suicide threats, or any other threats are just other ways to manipulate you into doing what they want. It's sick, it's wrong, it's abusive, and whatever they choose to do, it is NOT your responsibility. It is their choice.

And it is in both of your best interests for a clean break. Don't take his calls. Don't check up on him, call him write him, anything. He has friends that can do that. Any attention you give him will give him hope that the 2 of you will get back together.

We love you, sweetie.

stay strong Minkiloo. You'll come out fine

My ex used guilt to make me stay..it took another 6 months for me to finally leave.

minkiloo, you've already received lots of great support and advice, so I just want to encourage you to keep moving.

This guy will continue to manipulate you every time you get uncomfortably out of reach - just long enough to get you back where he wants you. Each time that happens the trap gets a little tighter, the hole a little deeper.

After hearing the things you've told us, there's nothing this guy can do that would make it worth the rest of your life to stay with him.

Yeah, we're talking about the rest of your valuable life here. And it is valuable. Don't forget it.

I am in 100% agreement with all the women here and and especially Sammy.

This is your life to live, not to live for someone who isnt going to appreciate you and just drag you down to their level so they can have misery in company.

You are SO WORTHY of a man equal to you that will treat you with kindness, understanding, honesty and that also thinks well of himself.

Minkiloo you can do it. Sit down, write out what you want to do with your life starting with this month then move on to what you want to do next year. Any type of goal is good to formulate, even if it is a simple one.

Hugs to you Minkiloo we are all behind you cheering you on!

I definintly am now, but I really think that you guys all gave me the good advice, and the push I need to get it started. Thank you!


I love you guys too!! This place has become such a safe haven for me because of all of you!



Thank you It's been hard to make decisions soley for myself, I always have him in mind when I make any and every decision. It's time to make my life MY LIFE!

Good for you!! Please keep us updated!

Thank you OH! It feels so good to know that you all are backing my decision, and I can come here to vent if it gets tough! And your idea of making a plan for myself is a wonderful idea. I've actually already made a new savings account I've been putting money away into to buy my own condo within the next year!

Thank you again everyone I told him last night that I need my space. That I need to do my own thing, and if I come back to him, I come back to him. If not, then it will be clear that we weren't meant to be. Clean break. That's all I said, then I got off the phone, and turned it off for the night. Phew! It actually feels like a relief!

If someone could pm and talk privately with me or just give some advice I would really appreciate it, I'm not sure if I want to post about it.

Min lets us all know how you are doing. I was sharing your story with a friend over dinner and we were talking about what if were with our high school sweet hearts. She thinks your very brave for wanting more and having to give it lots of thought. Change can be hard and scary. Good luck

Thanks, liz! I'm actually doing pretty well today. I'm not too sad as long as I keep my mind occupied. It makes me feel special to know that you think of me outside of the boards

*hugs* yeah min I do. I think about lots of people outside the boards. I'm a worrier so I worry about everyone when things seem to be tough in their lives.

That kid wasn't even grateful of the jellybeans..

awww jam sorry. The pit falls of liking boys.