It can't be easy sharp, but I think your handling things pretty well. You'll make the choice that best suits you when that time comes. None of my friends approve of nick, cause of the age and my mom thinks he's too old for me. If this guys asks you later why you didn't tell him about her calling you, just simply state what she told you. You know what don't listen to me...I believe a 12 yr old is trying her best to make me leave her dad for good

I need all of you to tell me does this sound like flirting. My friend who likes a guy she works with had a yelling match with a co-worker. She felt bad for the guy she likes cause he was upset by the event. On her break she drove to a candy shop and the cali people will know this place I bet more than others, See's Candy. She bought him 3 different candy bars and then a card that had something to do with you are appericated and stuff and gave it to him. His response when she gave it to him was, do I owe you money and she said no, it's a gift. he said nothing more. She asked me if it was crossing the line. I said yes. I told her that if you see him at work, why give him a card, words mean more when your face to face and 3 candy bars? I think the whole thing was out of line and a nice talk and a hug would have been okay, depending on how close you are to the person.

Sharpie, you need to run from this right now. If she's calling you already (and really, she saved your number a while ago and just decided to call now?) she's not going to go away. And considering she is the mother of his newborn, she really can't. Concentrate on your internship--you may find some hot guys there, you know, and let this guy take the summer to deal with all of his baby's firsts, because there a lot of them. Concentrate on you.

Doesn't sound funny to me. So basically there are three people in this relationship. Hmmmmm . . . . Sharpie, please be careful. If I were still in love with my ex and had a 3 month old infant with him, I'd probably have made that call too. I'd probably do everything I could to keep the father of my child with us. Are you ready for that?

My responses in purple.You're right, it is hard, but it's not impossible. Trust me, I've been there, and it will only lead to heartache. I really appreciate your honesty to us in this, but please, I beg of you, heed our warnings. We want what is best for you, we want to spare you heartache and protect you from needless hurt.

Of course it feels good, he makes you feel beautiful, wanted, loved. But you already are all of those things. You don't need a man who has a wealth of problems to tell you that.

It's not just the baby, it's the woman, the baby, the driver's license, his job, his lack of faith - it's the whole package, and if Todd Packer brought it, you'd have to change carpets.


The reasons why I don't approve of Nick have nothing to do with his age. It has to do with how he behaves and how he treats you.

Yeah, your friend overstepped her boudaries.

Wow, dating is scary.

Thanks, Veebs. You just repeated one of the wisest things my mother ever said to me - word for word. I wish I'd listened.

I hope you're listening, Sharpie.

I got a call this morning. I got my phone back hun. I said what do you mean back. Mom and ms,.thang said I didn't need to spend my recovery on the phone. hmmmm your right cause talking to me would hinder it. I told him, I don't like them. He said oh hunny I was ill and I was drugged up most of it. I said I don't care I'm not just anybody I was supposed to be your fiance, but I guess even that doesn't matter, I'm not blood so I'm crap. He got upset with me, but that's basically right. Then said, well I have my phone back so I have my lizzy back an we can spend lots of time together talking again. I can't go out anywhere though but we can have cuddles. hmmm pick up and start right where we left off and ignore the fact yoru family was beyond rude.
As my friend would say....why can't it be just the two of us.

I keep starting posts about being lonely and then deleting them because I can't phrase what I want to say the right way. Being alone, being lonely, it's not a bad thing. And you can still feel alone in a relationship. You will be alone when his baby runs a high fever and he rushes to the ER to make sure h/she is okay and he asks you not to come because it will be awkward.

I love my husband, but even before all this drama, there were times I would feel lonely and I would talk to him about it. It happens in and out of relationships. It happens in a room full of people. It happens, but you can't make decisions based on never having that feeling again.

I'm not trying to be difficult or mean, it's just that life is hard enough when you get things thrown at you unexpectedly. Why deliberately walk into something that really doesn't sound like it can turn out too well? He needs to learn to be a father first, not a boyfriend. And she still loves him and wants her family to be together. The loneliness you may feel now is going to be nothing compared to the drama that will be upcoming.

my friend sent me a text, the same girl I posted about above. She said one word. awkward. I have to call her at work.

Becca, no matter who you're with, it's never going to be just the two of you. There are always family and friends brought into the mix.

Sharpie, you need to buck up and do the right thing - even though it may be the hardest thing you've ever done. The results will be worth it.

To me, this is the core of the situation. Guess what? He brought a child into the world and he has a responsibility to be a father whether he wants to or not. And frankly, Sharpie, you should be telling him that, not trying to figure out how you can have him.

Of course the mother wants her family together. That's a natural instinct. The three of them are a family...I don't care that they aren't married or if he can't stand her or whatever. They are forever parents to a child and that is sacred.

And another thing, what can possibly be attractive or appealing about a man who will not be with the mother of his child. He had a baby and then left her .... what makes you think he won't do it to you???

You need to listen to this woman. It will make you think twice.

I get it, tough love. I know you all care for me and don't want to see me get hurt.


I'll go into a little further detail and you all can call it excuses or a likely story or whatever.


She is 19 now, they met when she was 18 (he is my age exactly) and they were together for 3 months before she got pregnant. Apparently (and yes this is his side) they had been fighting a lot and he was ready to call it quits and he sat her down to tell her so on the day she told him she was pregnant. He wasn't going to be the douche that dumped his pregnant girlfriend so he stood by her throughout. Nothing got better and he was miserable....although apparently she wasn't because she is still in love with him. Anyway, they broke up a couple months after the baby was born.

He is an excellent father and loves his daughter dearly. He focuses on her like no one else. Everything he does is for her and that is the way that it should be. He is incredibly responsible and works his ass off so he has enough money to support her. I've never tried to take him away from his ex or his daughter and I made sure that I had nothing to do with him breaking up with his ex.

I know this situation is clearly drama ridden. I mean...for pete's sake she called him over 100 times last night while we were out on a date and I am not exaggerating one bit. (She kept calling me and leaving voicemails and texts too.) I don't know why I like him so much or why the fact that he has a baby and a crazy ex doesn't seem to deter me. I know I wrote about being lonely and wanting someone and I re read it just now and I see how that sounds. I TRUELY like this man a LOT. I don't want him just to make me feel better. I'm just so happy when I'm with him and he is with me. He's a good guy who isn't the douchebag you all seem to think he is.

Yes I feel bad for his ex. I mean...this situation truely sucks for her and I told her that on the phone and that I was sorry, but a relationship is not meant to be one-sided.

this isn't directed at you sharp, but I wish people would use birth control instead of having babies when they don't need em.

Sharp if you like him and like him then there must be a reason especially if things don't upset you the way they might with someone else, the baby, the ex and so on. So take it slow and good luck with it, your a big girl and you can make what ever choices you want.

They dated for 3 months, he was ready to call it quits, but she was already pregnant. So she was good enough to sleep with, but not good enough to stay with. He may not be the douche that dumped his pregnant girlfriend, but he's still the douche that fathered a child with a girl he didn't love. Now, the ex is now stalking him, and you.

You like him because he's nice, he's charming, he makes you feel valued and loved, and he's a bad boy. He's the boy everyone you know will tell you not to date.

You say that's all in his past, but he still has a lot he needs to get together in his own life before he can even think about another girlfriend. Is him dating you right now really in his best interest?

Also, is he willing to have a celibate relationship with you?

We love you and we want what is best for you. Is he Mr. Right, or Mr. Right Now?

Sharpie, before you get any more involved with this man, you need to answer that question. You said you truly like him a lot, and you don't want him just to make you feel better. Why do you want him? You say he's incredibly responsible and works his ass off to support his 3 month old baby. He's going to be doing that for the next 18 years. What does that have to do with you and your future? Do you think these values are somehow going to be an asset to you? They won't. If you're not careful, someday you might become another obligation to him rather than a pleasant distraction. He'll come to resent you as much as he resents the baby's mother.

You're witnessing and sharing in the drama that his life has become. You can field some of the wacko phone calls and offer him sympathy and respite. In turn, you get the adoring looks and the affection. You're comforting each other. That's it. You will never, ever be a priority or an equal in this relationship. All you're really doing right now is offering him the support and the energy he needs in order to attend to his real responsibilities.

I don't know if he's a douchebag or not. I can't speak for Veebs or anyone else, but from my perspective, this isn't really even that much about him. I'm not going to give him that much power here. It's about you and your values and your potential and how this relationship will affect those things.

Look, it probably feels like we're beating you up here, but that's not the intent. You know that.

You're smarter than this, Sharpie. You have your whole future in front of you. Don't ruin it.

Exactly. You have so much going for you right now, a great internship, you're going to finish school soon, you have your whole life ahead of you - so many awesome possibilities!

yes, you are comforting each other, but there are a multitude of things he needs to address on his own.

Not only that, if he ex is really calling that much, she's got some serious issues, that the two of them need to deal with now, before things get worse. Because of unwise choices in my own life, I have been the victim of stalking twice, and not only is is scary, it's creepy, and it starts out with phone calls. This girl already has your phone number and has called you numerous times. He needs to put a stop to this now, before she becomes your problem as well. The ex may need counselling, she may be suffering from post partum, he may even have to call the police on her.

You need to think less about what you want, and how you personally can help them, and think more about what's best for them and what they need.

And yeah, I don't mean to sound harsh, but this situation really worries me. Again, thanks for your honesty, I know it's scary to put it all out there, but I wish I had people who cared about me as much as you do, and who is as tough on me about my choices when I was younger.

And frankly, I wasn't as honest with myself or my friends as you are.

I just want to say that I really hope you don't feel that you are being ganged up on here. It's just that people outside a situation are always able to see things more clearly and we just don't see an upside to this situation.

And I talk about myself a lot, but I have to say this. I love Tom with all of my heart. But if I had known that marrying him would bring the drama and disruptions and legal issues and everything else with it, well, I would have thought really hard about it and honestly, maybe said no and tried to live without him. We were married for four and a half years when this whole mess started and it has put a strain on our marriage. We still love each other, but different people cope with things in different ways. I would never leave him over this (unless he wanted POY to move in with us and that is a deal breaker and he knows it), but I just cannot imagine starting off a relationship like this, with drama and threats and 100 phone calls and an innocent baby.

We could all be totally wrong, but I think you need to step away from this awesome guy (who is willing to put you through his drama) and concentrate on yourself and your internship right now.

I posted my single stuff in my vent thread it could have gone in either

Wow, that^^ is going to get old REALLY SOON. I can't for a second see you living with that indefinitely Sharpie. But she has a kid with him, she now has a reason to call him whenever she wants to.

Hey Sharpie, I bet you feel a bit ganged-up on too. Gee, having 1/2 dozen or more people all responding negatively would make anyone feel that way. But you know that's not the intention at all. It would sound off warning bells for me if everyone was saying the same thing to me though. I admire you for your honesty putting this story out there. You know by doing that you're automatically inviting everyone's opinion, and boy do we have them.

I don't know this guy. He may be a perfectly nice guy. People do make mistakes when their young, (and often when they're older and should know better too). It's encouraging that he's clearly made a personal commitment to be a father to his daughter. That will make all the difference in her life as she grows up. And he needs to be supported to become the best father he can be.

I just can't help thinking that you're in that heady, intoxicating, infatuation stage. It's the best feeling in the world, and it can derail common sense sometimes. Unfortunately that stage doesn't last. Ever. Eventually a couple settles down into the real relationship itself, the more hum-drum day-to-day stuff. That's when you decide you really don't love this person, or you do, and are really ready to work to build something lasting. Most relationships don't make it past this stage. I guess what I'm rambling on about is that I suspect that when the infatuation wears off, the reality of all the baggage that comes with this relationship is going to hit hard. And while it's not a certainty, the chances are you're going to be hurting in one way or another. I also think sammy has a point. You're getting something out of this besides just enjoying his company. You're getting some kind of validation, or positive psychological payback. Otherwise, I just can't imagine your usual common sense leading you down this path based on what you've said in the past. It's worth thinking about anyway. I bet the reason you enjoy spending time with him so much but can't explain why you like him, in large part has to do with something inside of you, not him.

And I don't believe that there's some hand of fate putting you together even when you know you shouldn't invest. I know this sounds unromantic, but relationships take W.O.R.K. There are too many things that pull any two people apart. No one puts us together, and keeps us together except ourselves. We make a conscious decision to stick with the other person. We have to decide whether the many sacrifices are worth it. But we should never sacrifice ourselves, or what we know to be right. Then we lose ourselves. You're a grown woman obviously, and you make your own decisions. No one here can tell you what to do. Take care of yourself. You're an amazing young woman, and you're right on the edge of a bright, exciting, future.

Wow, mixed, that was amazing and beautifully worded. Just wow.

I just made a giant giggling a$$ of myself at a grocey store. I was with my friend andera and we were in the veggies section and I look over there was this incredibly goregous man. I mean you looked at him and couldn't help but smile fine. I only noticed him after I was doing my little stupid 80's dance ala breakfast club tribute. We did shortly make eye contact and I kinda smiled at him. So we shopped and she was like who? were is he? And he showed up in the ice cream section and we were in the check just around the corner so she stucj her head around and saw him and came back up becca is he so hot. There is a express lane with hardly no one in it and I'm waiting in the regular line, my friend behind me and that guy gets in line behind her and he could have gotten in the express lane, but he didn't. As soon as he stepped in our lane, I couldn't stop smiling. I was biting my lower lip, so I wouldn't smile or giggle cause I was ready to burst. we briefly looked at each other. He's so pretty. just under 6ft, tan, eyes so sexy that you could get lost for hours in them, dirty blond hair, hat, green shirt with peck muscles just showing, arms and shoulders that were perfect. When I finished my purchase and moved over so my friend could do hers and I still was bright red from blushing and she finished and I couldnt help myself. We started to walk away and I didn't care, I said out loud you are so goregous, totally fine. You're so damn hot. Everyone was smiling cause yeah I made a fool of myself. He just smiled alittle and when we left we drove by his truck leaving the parking lot, I waved at him. If I see him again in town my friend it's a sign to make a move on him.

I agree!

he was such eye candy wedd.

That was beautifully said, mixed. I tend to be very straightforward, and a lot of times it comes out abrupt. I don't mean to be rude; you're a very good example.

no phone calls, texts or emails from him since sunday morning. I deserve better than this, especially after his, I just need you to give me 3 weeks.

I agree. Does he think he just bought himself three weeks by telling you that? Don't take his calls the next time he tries to reach you.

And that trip you are talking about with your friend? Take that in three weeks.

You sure do deserve better.

This is the same 3 week deal you mentioned in the venting thread? He thinks an occasional surprise is worth waiting for rather than giving you some quality time every day. He just doesn't get it.

So I don't even know if I'm single or not. My husband and I are separating, but sometimes he says we're just on vacation, and other times he says he doesn't even know what he feels towards me anymore. Yet if he's ***** thats another thing. But thats kinda ok, cause I get ***** too Anyway, sometimes he makes it sound like we're done and other times he keeps me hanging by a thread. Sometimes he seems like he can't wait to get out of the house, yet when he got approved for the apartment for June 1, he said he wasn't unhappy about it and kept hugging me. I dunno ponies anymore.

^^^

That is very unfair of him to string you along Myalika. So do you think there is still hope then?






Well stated and genuinely gave me something to think about. But I can't honestly say that I am keeping him from attending to his real responsibilities...because he already does that very well.




They are working it out. The next time we went out she didn't call as much...a few times yes, but she didn't blow up his phone.

You don't sound harsh. I appreciate everything you all have said to me. The thing is that you all know that I already know all this....right? I'm not stupid and I totally see this as a bad idea, but it's still probably what I'm going to end up choosing for now. I know that sounds horrible, but I'm just being honest.




I don't feel ganged up on. I know you all say it because you care and I appreciate that.




Ding ding ding! Wiiiiiiinnnnner! Mixed and Sammy! Yeah...y'all are right. I feel worth something, cared for, beautiful, and just plain amazing when I'm with him. This is a bad idea. I know it. It will never last and I am going to get hurt. In fact if I ended it now I would already be hurt, but like I said earlier I know I'm making a mistake getting involved and it's foolish to do so. He is ultimately not what I am looking for and why would I even waste my time? IDK.

I guess sometimes we just have to learn from the mistakes that we make. Why put myself through unnecessary heartache? Well...the feelings I have now (even though they won't last) are almost worth the fact that it's going to suck later on.

I'm a fool. I know, but I'm just being honest.

Well at least you're being honest. Brace yourself Sharpie, you know we lobe yoy.

I have a friend who basically said, fine but don't expect me to be there for you when your world comes crashing down, because you know you are making a bad decision and I told you so.


I can understand why you all may be that way too, but I know you won't...and I appreciate that. Over the past year you all have come to mean so much to me and often this is the only place I can truely express myself and my feelings. Thanks for being there...even when I inevitably fall.

Myalika sounds like he doesn't know what he wants and is hoping you'll tell him by making the choice for him. Stay strong.

Sharpie- you're a smart girl and if you know there is a chance that its going to hurt later on down that road well at least you didn't go into it blindly.

Yep sammy you are correct. it's the same 3 weeks in the vent thread. 3 weeks for what? who knows. 30 mins of his time? A date? doesn't make up for the fact he's not bothered with me since sunday.

Sharpie, your honesty is refreshing. We all want to protect you from hurt and heartache, but that's not realistic. At least you're going into this with your eyes wide open. I don't think you'll hear "I told you so," from anyone here.

I guess what I wish for you is a relationship that makes you feel all the things you feel with this guy, but without the obstacles. I think there's someone out there for you without a history, so that you two can experience things together for the first time....courtship, love, marriage, baby...if that's what you want eventually...

I don't know if that makes any sense or if I'm just very naive to think that it's possible.

I've gone through these feelings with a close friend and one of my siblings. When you care about someone, you want them to have the best. I have a difficult time accepting any other relationship they find themselves in when it is someone they already know is not "the one" from the get-go. I get frustrated, feel like they're wasting their time, that they're going to miss Mr. or Ms. Right because they're involved with Mr./Ms. Right Now. But the truth is, not many people find that person right away, and along the road to "the one", there will probably be others who we are going to find totally inadequate for the person we love. At some point we just have to accept that, and as BMaC said, we will be here if things go wrong and be your shoulders to cry on in the end.

That means a lot to me Bmac. I certainly hope that is not naive, because I want it more than I can express. And if it's meant to happen, then it will happen. I think he's out there.

Absofruitly!!!!


In the words of Meredith, he needs to "**** or get off the pot."


My heart aches for you, but you read us so well, and we've all said our piece. You know we love you, you know we won't say, "I told you so," even when it hurts more than you ever imagined, and you know we'll be here for you no matter what.


Frankly, I think that's what the brit wants, too.

It won't let me say ****, and Meredith said it on the show.

Sharpie, I've been in a place similar to where you are. I forged ahead with two very unwise relationships when I was your age and younger, and got terribly hurt in the process, even though I knew going in that I was doomed to failure. But I kept going because I was lonely and felt that those relationships were my only options at the time.

I know how this is going to feel when it's over, and I don't want that for you. You won't get an I told you so, but my heart is going to ache right along with yours. That's partly why I've been so vocal about this.

Agreed!




And agreed again!




!

oh veebs

well with him and I not talking...no one is making any decisions

I seriously think he is planning a wedding. What are you going to do if he springs that on you?

I dont think he is. I think he is using a stall tactic I hate people who try to pacify you to kill time or be evasive

How can he plan a wedding if he cant pick up a phone or people take the phone away from him yeah I said that

Be strong Becca, if you dont want to wait, dont wait. I think you have waited long enough and deserve SO much more.

I'm not waiting...Like I said before I'm not running after him. I've done all the chasing, compromising and understanding. If he's got anything going on I don't know and how can he do that behind my back and I not feel upset? It's not for me, it's for him in the end isn't it?
I just want to be treated like a equal and I'm not.

Wow Becca, you've come a long way, and we're really proud of you. But it still sounds a little like you're waiting for him to call. Maybe you need to be the one to make the decision and tell him (a la Ryan) "You and I are done."

You seem to be doing so much better these last few weeks - so much more like yourself, more sure of yourself, spending time with friends and looking for jobs. I like seeing the real you again.

And yeah Sharpie, I am coming from very much the same place as sammy - bad choices = really really bad hurt and pain, and I want to spare you that. But as one of my best friend's mothers used to say to us when we were in college, "Do what you want. You will anyway."

I won't lie I am waiting for him to call so I hear why he can't be bothered to call me for days on end and why it's okay. This outta be the the worlds best excuse.
I've been doing more and such an it's been fun and awful at the same time. So what kelly said, does have a slight ring of truth to it even if it was from kelly

and I thought I would be married by now. What a joke

So did I, Becca. So did I.

my friend andera and I were talking around 11:30 tonight til about 1:20 am. I totally busted her bubble on men. I said you know you are never the same person when you are with someone you change. You have your life but you think in terms of us and do a lot of giving. It's not til you either break up or get fed up that you start to feel like the person you were when you were single.
She got so quiet and the silence could have shattered glass it was that bad Yeah I moaning about me, but I think she understood what I meant

veebs, it's never too late I'm not giving up hope.

The thing is, if things change, they are supposed to change for the better. I mean, a lot of times a partner brings out good qualities in people, things they didn't even know they had in them. But partners aren't supposed to make people withdraw or stay locked in the house or feel badly about themselves. When that happens, it is time to be alone, I think.

I 100% agree, . . . not a chance in hell.

It's still pretty early days Becca. You've only started to move on, so it's going to be like this for awhile. But it will change and get better.

no call from him. 5 day actually of no contact.

Wedd, you are right a partner should bring out the better, soemtimes they don't.

Yep mixed it's early and it's very confusing. I don't get how he could tell me 5 days ago to wait and that he loves me. And then do this.

yeah, my high school music teacher got married for the first time at 81. She met him in the retirement home.