Yep, it's a definite. She's one month along.

And sorry for giving you guys a shocker.
(sorry, couldn't help myself)

Well, unfortunately, one month is not a definite--3-4 is usually a definite.

She's one month and has no interest in having this guy be a father? There are, um, options. Does the guy know?

He knows, and he's being supportive. It's not that she doesn't want him to be a father, it's that she has no interest in being in a long-term relationship with the guy. She is keeping the baby, however. She told me last night, and it doubtful that she'll change her mind because she seems to have made up her mind, and to be pretty sure about he decision.

That's tough. I don't know what to say.

Hi Scotty, I know we don't know eachother but I thought I'd join in. If she's having a baby with this other guy, is she still planning on moving? Will she be willing to take the baby away from it's father?

What the hell is wrong with you?!?! (Stanley)

This is a tough one scotty, another case of life smacking us around. One of my brothers started dating a girl when she was at this stage, and ended up in the delivery room with her. They are now married, and he is the only father this boy has ever, (or will ever) know. He now has two little brothers and how he got here makes no difference to my brother, or to any of us. It may to him someday, but there's no helping that.

Good luck on this one.

You've clearly had some long-term plans with this girl, and I can understand why they'd be tough to abandon.

She's going to go through a lot of emotions over the next few months, whether she likes the baby's father or not. If you plan to stick by her, you're going to get a baptism by fire. Just be careful, Scotty.

Wow scotty that is a bombshell but I know how much you like this girl and if you can handle the situation then take it slow and see what happens. Good luck with it scotty

today a gentleman told me I had stunning eyes. I did not flirt back. He was kinda odd, well atleast I thought he was.

Agreed 100%. It's beyond sweet that you love her enough to stick by her side during the whole ordeal, but things are going to drastically change once she gives birth. And like they say, baby makes three. Plus, the baby's daddy is gonna be in the picture somehow, even if the girl doesn't want the support from him. Still, I admire the fact that you're willing to go above & beyond for her. It's nice to see a guy that doesn't find a girl's baby from another guy extra baggage. That says alot about your character. As for myself, I could never involve myself with a guy who has a child from a previous relationship. I mean, I don't ever want children, period, & to be with a guy who has a kid who isn't mine isn't my idea of fun .

I'm gradually starting to get over the guy. My dad said it best, in which that if the guy didn't respond to me, chances are he doesn't like me. It sucks, but what can I do except move on. Like I said, he's not the only remaining guy on the planet. It'll be tough, but if I don't talk to him, it'll make progress that much easier.

Scotty, that was very 'attention ho' of you. Bad boy.

Wow, that's a tough one. Are you sure she wants a future with you? And why didn't you talk for 2 months?

Wow Scotty.

I have pretty strong opinions about this type of situation, which I've shared here in bits and pieces. Scotty your statement that she said she likes the guy and all but not enough to have children with him is the most telling part of it, and it is the main reason why I get so angry at couples who put themselves in a situation that results in pregnancy when they aren't married. I know mistakes happen, but with all the birth control options available I find it so difficult to understand why mistakes happen. And then there's the whole abstinence issue. And there are people who make a very compelling point that a pregnancy is the least of your worries when you are sexually active outside of marriage.

Obviously I don't know this girl, but I know you a bit and she must be a good person for you to feel that you could have a life with her. But is this really how you want your life to be? You can't un-ring a bell. What's done is done and now the consequences for her, you, the father, the baby, the baby's grandparents, your parents, etc., will be lifelong and life altering...in ways you cannot even imagine. The thing is that a baby deserves every advantage, every opportunity, every ounce of love and attention that it can get, because the baby is the innocent one here. Life isn't about you or her or the dad anymore. It's about the baby. It never goes away, it's never free. Being a parent is a responsibility that, if you do it right, is the most rewarding and sacred thing you can do with your life. So don't say you want this just to be with the girlfriend. I hope you really take some time to consider everything, and I hope you have someone you can talk it out with who you trust and who has the same values as you.

And one more thing....like anyone wants to hear one more thing from me on this subject! I know that my opinions are pretty conservative and some might think I'm out of touch with reality, and a few years ago I might have been the first to say you have a point. But, for the past two years I've been "grandma" to a little slice of reality. That's fine for me, but my heart breaks for what could have been for her parents.

Well, BMaC, I agree with your 'out of touch' opinions.

BMAC, so do I. It's not a joke. I think I mentioned this before. The sole reason Jay was born is because MOY had numerous pregnancies that ended either willingly or unwillingly before this one. Rumor has it that she was told that this may be her last chance to have a child. So instead of saying, I'm 22 , a heroin addict, have no job, no money, the child's father is an addict, a child does not deserve to be born into this life, she said, what? This may be last my chance? Well, I want a baby and I'm having one.

And here we are, 7 years later, with a kid who is going to know more suffering then any kid should. Who has already known more than most kids I know, because MOY was thinking about herself.

Babies are serious business. Sometimes it gets forgotten that they turn into people.

I'm not trying to dissuade you Scotty, or anything like that, but I just really want you to think about this.

Scotty,
I hope you know now how lucky you are to receive all the excellent advice and wisdom everyone has shared. The world would be in much better shape if everyone had such wise counsel.

I can only add that there is no reason to make a decision about your relationship's future now. As others have said, big changes are in store, and they may bring you together or push you apart. Agreeing to put off any serious relationship for now takes the pressure off you both. The best thing for her, and the baby, would be to know she has a supportive friend.

*Thinks about last time she saw scotty* Nope it is not me....

UMMM darling? who? what? where? when? and how?



Oh man that is sad. I know she is a really cool girl, it's all good scotty, even if you were a step-dad you would be a good one





You gave me a heart attack... keep us informed!



AND SCOTTY... Don't ever scare me like that again!

She said she is still interested in moving down here, but you never know what will happen. She doesn't like where she lives, and she has family down here, and there are better jobs, but it's all up in the air pretty much. She said something about the guy willing to move down here for the baby. I really don't know much about what's going on yet. This is still the beginning of a big ordeal, so I'm going to take things very slowly, like everyone's saying.


I realize that was attention ho of me. Sorry, i was a little intoxicated when I posted that, and I doubt I realized how shocking it actually sounded.

And about why we haven't talked for 2 months...that's a long story. Basically, there was no way for me to contact her. She lost her cell phone, moved back to Iowa, didnt' have a computer, blah blah blah. Also, I believe we were both a little discouraged because we thought we shouldn't wait around for each other. It's a huge thing I don't want to go into. I don't really feel like discussing the pregnancy issue either, but I felt like I should tell you guys since you're my friends. And don't worry, things will be considered carefully, and then reconsidered even more carefully before any type of decisions are made. Things will move slowly, and , now that you know the situation, I will give you guys some updates from time to time. I appreciate and respect everyone's opinions and thoughts on the situation. Thanks!

*EDIT*
Pam, you know you're the only e-girl for me.

Sigh, men...

This article should be a real conversation starter.

Wow. There were maybe a few phrases here and there that I agreed with, but overall? Me personally, I have not experienced that level of disillusionment yet. And I don't think I would EVER let it get that far. It's nice that you wrote an article, but try working on your marriage.

Wow.

interesting article, but I wouldnt take marriage advice off of the Oprah show. It bugs me that she telling women how to have a great marriage and she's not married. I kinda giggle when people go I dont need a piece of paper it doesn't mean anything. So why would you be scared to get married then?? I know it doesn't belong here, but I can't take the Suzie orman either. She's full of it.

I don't know why she assumes that most, if not all, women feel this way. Obviously, she is unhappy with her choice. But I think most women love their spouses much more than that. Sure, we've had rough times, but I just wanted things to improve, not end. And it certainly wasn't over shoes left in my path. I also resent her implying if you don't admit to feeling that way, you're delusional. She must not know many happily married couples.

I get what she is saying, though it could have been said a shade or two nicer. Without giving away too much of my own marriage, there are times I do wish I was single(even w/the kids) but I never regret getting married. Is that that too weird or un-understandable?

Nothing is perfect in an imperfect world.

becca, the article was just on Oprah's site for some reason. Oprah didn't write it.

OH--I agree with you. There have been times when I have just wished to be alone and not have to worry about how my decisions affect someone else ,or more to the point, how his decisions (and family) affect me, but I would never think of divorce or just be like, hey, I'll give it ten years, if it doesn't work I'll just get divorced.

I think this author is miserable and hasn't gotten the courage to get that divorce. She's trying to make herself feel better by reminding herself that yes, that option is still out there. And she's hoping that there are other women who feel the same. But as I said earlier, talk to him, try and fix it. Tell him you are unhappy and go from there. Then follow through.

If Tom hit me with a car though, because he wasn't paying attention? That may call for a trial separation. Or at least him sleeping on a couch!

I guess she was being tongue-in-cheek, but her "humor" was pretty biting. I totally understand the occasional desire for freedom or personal space. But if she really has that feeling over so many little things...sheesh.

I wonder how her husband feels about her?

Geez, that article could have been written by either of my parents. Granted, each of them makes exceptionally poor choices about who they end up marrying (except for my first stepfather, whom my mom married when I was 15... even though she's been divorced from him for decades, he is still more of a dad to me than that biological so-called father I was so blessed with). The thing is, each one of them walks away from their current partner at the slightest possible instigation, and each claims the same thing: "Well, I'm not completely happy."

So what? The US Constitution gives us the right to PURSUE happiness, but guarantees nothing about happiness itself. Life isn't a theme park, built to cater to our good times. Sometimes people tick us off, and can be completely annoying. But I think if you can walk away from a vow "to love someone forever" just because you're a little dissatisfied, then you clearly didn't take the vow all that seriously when you made it in the first place.

Of course, there are certainly instances that would almost mandate a divorce as far as I'm concerned. My "non-negotiables" are infidelity and abuse - and I know that there are other people out there who could handle these things, but would be destroyed by something else altogether. But just finding someone annoying because he mis-buttons his shirt? And blaming a guy for hitting you with a car when he's known for being a little spacey (and where is her personal responsibility? I don't walk in front of ANY car without knowing that the driver sees me and has stopped for me)? I'll bet she is no bundle of delight herself. I'm almost certain that Brad Pitt and George Clooney aren't clamoring outside her door to gain her attention, no matter how fabulous (compared to her spouse) she thinks she is. Because what she doesn't say here, but what I know for certain in my own experience with this, is that she doesn't fantasize about divorce because she wants to be alone... she fantasizes so she can be free to meet someone better.

People change. They rarely get prettier or sexier through the years. But I know, with my husband, any habits that he has that annoy me, well, I have my own share that annoy him. But we have both seen the havoc that is wreaked when people walk away because they are feeling restless, or like they can do better. This woman would likely have a much happier relationship if she developed a little empathy and kindness. Stop going through the motions, lady, and see what it's like to try to make your husband happy. You might be surprised at the positive spin it puts on your life too.


(Whew - soapbox city! Sorry guys... I guess this is one that hits me at a really personal level!)

Oh my god, WOS, your signature!

I understand it even better after reading your post.

Wow WOS! That was awesome!!

And yes, my two are infidelity and abuse as well.

Oh, and if I am ever asked to provide housing to any family member (aside from Jay) who needs it, the response is "They have nowhere to live? You go get a place with them then, because I'm not living with them".

I WILL NOT live with POY, BILL or the step-father. EVER.

Oh yeah, and I don't think I can do better, even when he aggravates me!

I saw that article yesterday and almost posted it as well. I know her tone is harsh, but I recognize things in it as true. And I think most importantly for me personally, the way I viewed marriage when I was getting married at 27 (after swallowing the Disneyland/happily ever after/Prince Charming will ride in and save you kind of bs I grew up with), is not the way I know marriage to be now. I have a happy marriage, but I think she's right when she said "it doesn't take work, it is work", (maybe they're the same thing). In my case it's well worth it, but maybe understanding that up front would smooth out some of the rough patches I know we encountered. I also think she makes a good point that unlike our mothers, we will get divorced if we have to, (abuse, infidelity, etc.). That doesn't mean everyone's running for the door at the first hint of a seven-year itch. It just means staying in the marriage every day is an active choice and decision. That wasn't always true.

You should write for Oprah.com. Seriously, you should respond to her column with this.

It's important, too, to understand that abuse isn't limited to the physical. We're not talking about the occasional insult or critical remark or one-upmanship, either. It's a daily life- and spirit- destroying campaign waged by one person over another one - or more - persons. It's tough to get some people to acknowledge that it's a real issue.

Sammy, I agree 100 percent with what you say here... there are people who can be so cruel, who can eat away at your very soul, that staying with them for any length of time can shatter your life. I think that a person who is able to escape this sort of mental abuse is as brave as anyone alive, because to do this, the person has to find inner strength to "out shout" the voice of doubt and worthlessness that these abusers plant in their partner's head.

I think the reason this got to me so much, is it sounds exactly like what I've heard my entire life, and it irritated me that while the woman was clearly writing with her tongue firmly planted in her cheek, she was kind of lying. A person thinks about divorce to escape a marriage when it is truly bad, when their health (mental or physical) is at risk. A person who thinks about divorce because their spouse is annoying is simply bored (and therefore, probably pretty boring).

People who are escaping a devastating marriage aren't hoping to run out and find their dream partner. They want to get on their own and heal. People who are walking away from a less-than-sparkling partnership are on the prowl for someone fabulous - they want heat and fire and passion. They want to feel young again by feeling what they felt when they were young.

Wow. So true.

I won't give up on the hope that someday..... But currently my healing involves a lot of studying and learning and working and being alone with myself and (mostly) living by my own rules. Some days I really hate it. But I'd hate it and myself even more if I did something desperate just because I was lonely.

I should have known!

And how are you supporting that e-baby?

I know I've said this before, but IMO, if you don't like someone enough to raise a child with them, you shouldn't be sleeping with them.


Wow, that is one miserable woman. Didn't she think about her chices before she got married???? No one forced her into this.

I bet her husband doesn't read her stuff - that complaint will show up in her next article.


Exactly. And you should post that on the Oprah site.

I think a lot of people do not realize that love is a verb - it's an action, a conscious commitment, not a feeling. That's why it's work. Feelings will change, like an ebb and flow, but the vow remains. Sure there are reasons to divorce, but that woman sounds cranky and self-absorbed.

I know, people are gonna say Veebs has never been married. True, but you have all seen the commitment I have toward my parents. I wouldn't give any less to a spouse.

You guys have seen me post about my ex's recent health problems. When we met, I was 16 and he was 19. His ex had left him a month before because her family didn't want her dating him because he wasn't Albanian. Anyway, we were talking and he actually said to me, "If I had been Albanian, everything would have been fine with us, and you wouldn't have existed". WTF? Yeah, I wouldn't have been his girlfriend, but I still would have existed. And it was pretty much 7+ years of that. Which, come to think of it, explains a lot of the insecurity I have now.

This is my way of saying that I agree. And if we had been married, which I did think might happen at one point, years of that would have been grounds for divorce. Not the fact that he left his towels on the floor.




I don't think anyone here would say that--and sometimes you recognize things better when you're not involved in it. Do you know how many times during the Jay situation I had to hear how since I don't have children, I don't know how to be a mother? All I know is, I was an awesome foster mother/aunt and I am a good wife (just not yesterday ). Having a baby doesn't make you a good mother, woman or person and having a marriage license doesn't make you a good partner.

Don't temp me. I'll say it....


That's an excellent point, Wedd. I totally agree that you don't need legalities to prove that you are/know how to be something.

Sammy, you've been on an amazing journey, and the changes that you have made for yourself (not to mention the stellar example you have set for your daughter) are astounding. I don't doubt that true love is in your future, but more importantly you deserve every bit of honor and admiration I can muster for taking care of yourself and rebuilding your life after your divorce. I don't know much about your daughter's dad, other than the few times you've mentioned how he (in just a few words) can devastate her, and about how she has tried to rebel against him and ended up hurting herself.

Watching the grace and class you have shown as you leave him behind and enjoy your independence and power will be her shining example of what to expect in her own future relationships.

I think you're splendid! When you do come across Mr. Right, you'll be ready!

I understand wedd Oprah didn't write it. I just get annoyed with her trying to fix people and all that BS she spouts out about the secret. She entertaining and fun at times but when she starts in about fixing yourself and and reflections I get super annoyed.

It's not like nearly a week since i've talked to my best friend on the phone about her man issues. I give my advice, she doesn't like what I have to say, she's gotta figure it out on her own and if it means she gets hurts then so be it. She's not 16 she's 30.

The crazy guy friend I have got really friendly with me earlier this afternoon. In fact he well lets say asked for some. WTH??? He's been really mean to be lately and all and today I think he hit his limit. He said we're going to meet up and when we do I think we should ya know. Completely nuts. I told him never gonna happen.

WOS, you always put so beautifully into words the things I think but cannot say. So, ditto, sammy.

Tres dittos!

Um, what's next in French?

Okay, I agree too. In plain English!

Quatro dittos!
Sammy, you have always impressed me with your strength and courage. I'm not sure I could have made it through what you did.



I don't think any less of people who have to end bad marriages, aren't thrilled with their spouse, or just want to be single. I know I'm lucky to have found the right person, a very good person, the first time. I know I'm lucky to still be in love with my husband after 25 years.

What I didn't like was how the author trivialized divorce by saying she thinks of it several times a day for the least little thing. Instead of funny, she sounded bitter and whiney. And I really resented how she put down women with different opinions. She said your husband cannot be your best friend. Well, mine is. She hates it when women say "my husband is my lifeline." Mine is. Why is that bad? Why is it bad that I am closest to, and lean on most, the man I'm married to? She also implies I'm delusional if I think marriage is wonderful. It's not perfect, but who the heck ever said it was? Not my mother. I guess I didn't go into marriage with unreasonable expectations, so I was pleasantly surprised with how good it could be. Yes, we have had unhappy times, but they didn't last a decade or two. Not every marriage is great, but some are. Most days.


sorry for the rant, I guess she really rubbed me the wrong way

I think she annoyed a lot of people. Just because your marriage sucks and you think about divorce when the garbage is taken out, don't try to convince the rest of the world to do the same.

She should just file for divorce already and shut up.

The guy is no longer talking to my friend, hasn't since he got his 100 bucks from her. And she was thinking of moving to a different place and asking him to move in as a room mate, with his own room. You all think I move too fast... she's a speed demon

^^^I laughed out loud. Thank you!!!!

Don't thank me. Thank G4, and my boyfriend's lameness. And it's not because he doesn't have a job either!

I'm getting that on a shirt!

I think we should respond to her column with all these comments. Seriously.

Hottest, that is so funny - and true.

you mean cash doesn't attract women anymore