sorry, y'all, i'm a newbie and alll...

curious what y'all think about peter being able to absorb the haitian's power:

1) if he is able to,

2) what that means for peter's ability to use that power at the same time as others,

3) if that's how he'd defeat sylar--if their fight is like neo versus smith.


again, i apologize if this was already discussed...

don't know ask Tim Kring.

One of the most-asked questions >_>....

I think that Peter should already have the Haitians power. It was when they were on the roof, the Haitian obviously didn't use his power on Peter, and therefore Peter should have been able to absorb it. If the Haitian had shut down his power then Peter wouldn't have been able to get his power. So in effect, Peter should be immune to the Haitian's power. They should just cancel each other out.

If Peter does have the Haitian's power (which I don't think he does) and the power can be turned on or off, the only way they can cancel each other out is if they both "activate" their power at the same time.

I explained this before in another topic. But I believe the Haitian can filter powers, which ones dont work and which ones do. Its not something always on.
-Icenick

i dont remember them ever coming in contact??? can anyone say what episode please...and i would assume he could not because the hatian would stop peter from being able to use powers, which technically his power is to absorb other powers

Bennet and the Haitian tried to shoot Peter and Claude on Charles Deveaux's rooftop. Unexpected.

The power is not automatic, in fact no powers are, the Haitian obviously didnt block Peter's power because he froze time, used Tk, and flew. He should have absorbed the Haitian's ability. The reason he cant use it is because its too cool to handle.
-Icenick

yeah but they wernt close enough to make their powers stop because they were both still invisible and peter was still able to use his powers

The Haitian can block a power if your simply on the same floor as him (Five Years Gone), He just didnt use his ability, which is why Peter should have it.
-Icenick

Yeah I think the Haitian's powers aren't passive, he needs to activate it somehow, otherwise Nathan would not have been able to fly away when they tried to kidnap him.
I think Peter should have been able to absorb his powers, the same way he quickly absorbed Ted Sprague's powers and started using it without even knowing that Ted had it.

Would Peter be able to absorb the Haitian's ability or would the Haitian's ability block Peter's ability to do so?

Wondered when this debate would resurface. The short answer is that we don't know. The Haitian obviously has to activate his ability, whereas Peter's is always on. That seems to indicate that Peter could absorb it before Haitian could block him, but we're not certain. It's something I hope they'll explore next season.

I agree with Synch. It would seem that from the episodes i've seen, the Haitian has full control of his power. Either it's on or off. He can use his power on everyone around him or just concentrate on one individual. So, if the Haitian didn't know that Peter was coming around the corner, then Peter could potentially absorb his power.

The writers did a good job in inventing the Haitian and his powers. It keeps certain elements balanced. However, if Sylar ever got his power, then Sylar would be unstoppable.

I came to the same conclusion, but I think it is more obvious when he is erasing memories then when he is specifically blocking someone's power. I agree that the way they focus on him while he's blocking someone's ability does make it appear that he's concentrating on activating his power. But they do kind of leave it open as to how it works exactly. Off the top of my head right now I'm thinking of the future episode where the Hatian was pretty much guarding the one level so peter and hiro couldnt use their powers. Yet Parkman still had his power. Now, what about when Mr. bennet and the Hatian had Nathan cornered, but Nathan just flew off. Why wasnt his ability blocked? Sorry if my memory is rusty, but I watched so much of it a few months ago that i needed a break.

Makes the most sense.

I think most of us agreed that the most probable answer to this question was that Haitian was working for Mama Petrelli at the time, and she had ordered him to let Nathan go. However, you're also correct in thinking this to be the first instance where we see that the Haitian has to activate his ability. (Retroactively, of course. Many of us had theories regarding this instance, going anywhere from the Unlikely to the WTF Were We Thinking.)

Well in the graphic novel he blocked his fathers unintentionally; but then again so does everyone when they first get their power.

this is a good question and something i haven't really thought about. i hope they elaborate on the hatian a lot more this season.

Then there is the debate on whether he can stop physical powers as well as mental powers, but I would say yes, since all powers come from the brain, and the fact that the other facet of his ability is erasing memores (also in the brain); So I would assume that yes, he can stop any ability, but has to concentrate on it purposely; OR he can block ALL, but can open a hole for someone like parkman BY concentrating. It seems like his own will power and concentration are the only things controlling and directing his ability, with a HUGE scope of varients and possibilities considering the core power is (temporarily or permantenly) blocking access to parts of the mind.

This leave the question, could he permantently "erase" / nullify a power by concentrating on the SG part of the brain as opposed to a memory cluster? Since that is how the power works... and then also begs the question.. since he can temporarily nullify powers... could he give temporary amnesia? Like.. when near him... you go into a panic because you don't know who you are, how you got there, or anything about yourself... make a complete fool of yourself... then when he leaves... or turns off his ability... you remember everything and are extremely confused... haha.

only Peter could sneak up on him........Sylar can't take invisibility anymore.

Why can't Sylar take invisibility anymore?

Thats ridiculous.

i think what he's suggesting is that since peter's actual power is "absorbtion" (or whatever u wanna call it), if sylar ate his brain, or did whatever he does to gain those powers, that he would get peters power of absorbtion and not all the powers peter currently has. however even if that was true sylar could just kill claude and take invisibility.

i don't agree with what he's saying either but i think thats what he getting at

I have no idea what he meant....

If Peter can absorb all of Sylars abilities...I don't see why Sylar couldn't "see" and figure out all of Peters. Yes, the absorbing ability would be the primary gain of killing Peter, but at the same time, Peter has to have some kind of genetic imprint of each ability if he is able to use it, and I'm sure Sylar could see that just as easily as he sees (whatever it is he does) to get the powers in the first place.

Sylar killing Peter would be the motherlode of kills for Sylar.

The Haitian's original power is to erase people's memories, which is a mental power. So it would only make sense that his other power would be to only block other mental powers. He cannot block physical powers, otherwise he would have stopped Ted and would have made Claude and Peter visible. Plus, Bennet would have known he could and would have expected it from him. Which is why he could not have "let" Nathan go, cause Bennet would have been like "What the..? You let him go?"

Going into another level of thinking, I would classify Peter's and as well as Isaac's powers as "spiritual", rather than mental. So added to physical, The Haitian cannot block "spirtual" powers, thuswise Peter's. As to whether Peter absorbed The Haitian's power, we may find out next season.


Sylar killing Peter would be the motherlode of kills for Sylar.

There are several powers that if Sylar took, would make him unstoppable. These include Peter's, Claire's, Hiro's, Candice's, and The Haitian's.

I think of Peter's power as viral. Reason being is that the powers have a genetic base and if Peter's genetic code has the potential for every power immaginable, but only the use in their vicinity and afterwards, it's just doesn't seem right. It's too mystical/magical/dare-I-say-spirtual and unexplainable in a material sense.

If they stick closer to what is real, Peter's power can be explained as a hightened sensitivity to the DNA of another SG. SomeTHING must be changing Peter in some way. It seems this thing is infact a combination of two, his genes and theirs. By incorporating the smallest amount, perhaps a cingle cheek cell caught on a breath, into his own genetic code would give him the ability. It would explain why he keeps the power afterwards and it has a simple explanation.

Peter's knowledge of how to use this power seems to work just like the original SG, by mistake while under duress. Yet, it would think that by watching someone use the power he can gain better perspective on it and how to use it.

This is also in agreement with the theory that Sylar needs to incorporate the DNA of an SG into his own to gain their powers.

So is Hiro's power mental or physical? We know that the Hatian can block Hiro's power and we know the Hatian can block Parkman's power. Also, Mr. Bennet sends the Hatian after Sylar and says "find him, he dies". Suggesting that the Hatian doesnt have to worry about any of Sylar's abilities harming him. I have to admit, though, that blocking someone's power such as Claire's doesnt seem to make sense to me and I would classify her's as a physical ability.

Both of Hiro's powers are mental, notice the hard squinting thing he does. Parkman's is too. Telekinesis is also mental, which is probably why Sylar ran from him. The Haitian cannot stop Claire from healing or Isaac from seeing the future.

Hi!
I am an average person who watches heroes. I think it is a really interesting show and very effective. However it is very annoying also at some points. I usually don't mind such things as West or slow peaced story ... but one thing exists that can make me hate a show. That is discontinuity and where i feel that things not happen cause there is a system behind them but only because the writers wanted that way.

from now i use DC as discountinuity.
So this will not be the biggest DC in the show(eden couldn't manipulate sylar, peter stood there invisible waiting for sylar to hit him with glass, sylar is literally resurrected without answers, candice ultra giga lameness to let sylar kill him( i would kept him in illusions 'miles' away from me and would interact with him only with illusions) )
BUT this is starting to be a big one and it is annoying:
-The haitian has a background power to supress other abilities. It is like a white noise a telephatic white noise.
We know this from season 1 where Matt and the FBI woman were in a car and Matt tried to hear HRG and the Haitian thougts about sylar. He couldn't but the Haitian DIDN'T recognize him so he did not do this consciously.
-We know that the Haitian can empower this effect as we saw it with Eden and in Five years gone.
-Now the first question. If his ability is background then when he uses it it MUST effect all other persons and heroes around. Even if he focuses it the unconscious background effect must still be around.
so THERE CANT BE or couldn't be such events that the Haitian supress peters power while after then Elle gives him a little shock
-This is a DC only from one perspective here is another
-I just have to say that Peter can get abilities.....
-If this is not enough:
If an ability is not conscious it works for him also without needing to know about it:
-Clair went to him after he jumped off the roof with sylar in season 1(the saving of the cheerlader) and he heald
-He also healed after Claude pushed him down
-He also healed after the Irish men knocked him out(he didn't remember that he can heal. And he didn't remember Claire. So he didn't have to feel Claire's presence to activate the ability)
ALL of these implies:
Peter must have the Haitian power with the BACGROUND effect to supress other powers

SO PETER AND THE HAITIAN MUST CANCEL OUT EACH OTHER LIKE INTERFERING WAVES

And what is implied from this. That IT SHOULD BE TOTALLY IMOSSIBLE to see scenes wher the haitian is around and Elle uses her toys yet Peter cant do anything and the Haitian takes him

Another DC-s:
Peter has mental powers also not only the Haitian power. So he must be mentally stronger than the Haitian so the Hitian should not be able to effect him

Another DC:
So peter has the ability to heal. And it is not needed to be conscious as i pointed out before.
Adam told hime that he can heal his brain and get his memories back.
So from this and from the screaming from people who has been cleared by the Haitian we know that the Haitians power literally damages(destroys) neuron connections in the brain.
We also know this because HRG's wife had brain damage after many memory clearings
BUT PETER CAN HEAL AND HE DON'T NEED TO ACTIVELY USE HIS POWER
So Peter could heal from the brain damage the haitian caused him IMMEDIATELY and he shouldn't have his memories cleared.
THIS IS ANOTHER reason why the haitian cant clear Peter' memories.

Ok only one reason remaind why could he. Cause the story is so complicated that writers couldn't figure out the logical implications of certain facts and powers. So the show starts to be totally messed up.
Characters forget to use their abilities while at other times they use them unconsciously.
Abality 'domains'(what they can effect and how) change CONSTANTLY and that is very annoying.
IT is ok that a person can use it more like a pro but the ability shouldn't change so illogically
A person could master his ability and even find crossovers but it should be DEVELOPED. And the RELATIONS to other powers should remain the same. I mean if somebody learn to use tk at a level that he can induce electricity that is ok. But these DC-s are not. Cause they are messed up with their relations to other powers.
Somteims it is unconscious that he can heal and writers build upon it.
Then it is not and writers build also upon it.
This is not 'fair'
Correct it.
It may sound cruel cause i understadn that it is hard. And it is hard to handle strong characters. BUT FIND ANOTHER WAY THAN DISCOUNTINUITIES AND CHARATER LAMENESS. FIND ANOTHER WAY THEN FORGETTING THINGS AND IQ DEGREDATION AND ALL THINGS LIKE THAT. Anyway the idea that Adam manipulates Peter is pretty good. It should be go this way and not with other lameness and iq degredation. It is at least built up. It has past. IT can be understood. How Peter felt himself a prisoner and how he started to see and feel that the company is evil.
And adam used this to his advantge very nicely.

Anyway the show is still interesting for me. I can enjoy it and it is not so bad but these things must be cleared out from it. However i would guess 10 times to start to see a new season from it when this is finished. If these things don't change.

lol, thats a lot to read. u got a cliff notes version?

Wow ok... english must not be your first language because I found a lot of that difficult to understand. I get the basic idea though.



I will be the first to say that I don't recall every detail of this scene, though I do recall the scene in general. How do we know the Haitian didn't recognize him? That seems a bit of a stretch given that he had kidnapped him earlier.

My guess on the supression powers is that he can choose who to suppress. IF he were going to suppress Parkman's powers, he could have just done so. But I am not sure that this interference/white noise is the same as his "suppression" power.

I am guessing that the Haitian was keeping himself and HRG in a "white noise" zone as a precaution - he was choosing to surround both himself and HRG in it. So, he might not have been suppressing Parkman's powers so much as he was blocking mental waves from anyone nearby.

Just a guess though.

I'm fairly certain that HRG and the Haitian knew that Parkman was there. Something along the lines of "Did you really think we wouldn't notice the same car parked out front for two weeks?"

Hehe, too many DC's in that OP.

I see no problem with the Haitian interacting with Peter. Peter's ability is to absorb other's abilities. The Haitian's ability is to suppress other's abilities. The Haitian's ability is the more powerful of the two. He suppresses Peter's ability before Peter is able to absorb anything. Peter's absorption ability is turned off when in the Haitian's presence.

With respect to the Primatech "eavesdropping" mission: the Haitian's primary role there was to suppress the abilities of any other residence SG's. Thus, any time he was at an SG containment facility he would have utilized his blanket ability suppression gift, thus shutting out Matt Parkman.

I do see a discontinuity with respect to the Haitian though. The Haitian has the ability to suppress other people's abilities. He also has an ability to remove/erase memories. These (it seems to me) are separate and distinct abilities. And there is a discontinuity right there since Bennett had told Sylar that Sylar was the first person they saw with multiple abilities.

I've said it before and it will feel good to say it again, the writers of this show have almost no idea what they are doing. There is no consistency checking at all. There should have been some explanation by now what the limitations of each Hero's power is. Each power is vaguely understood and changes based on the needs of the episode. Very annoying. There are way too many questions for a show 8 episodes into it's 2nd season.

Actually we DO know that they saw him. After the raid at Primatech the FBI agent mentions that they have film of him staking out the place from security cameras.

I don't know that we have seen that the Haitian's ability is always active and isn't directed. Eden used her powers in his presence when they captured Sylar, Nathan escaped from him using his power etc etc etc. The "white noise" that Matt heard in his presence even in the bar was probably caused by the Haitian blocking his power as a precautionary method to make sure he didn't pick up any stray thoughts about his impending "bagging and tagging."

I do ahve to agree to a certain extent. The writers may have tried to write about too many things at one time, making it har to keep track of. Not only that, it makes it hard for the consumer to keep track of.

I did raise the subject of why Elle managed to use her abilities in the presence of the haitian in another thread. It is very confusing and i hope the writers make it clearer when they go into the background of the haitian.

The writers will make mistakes though, i just hope these mistakes are minor ones so they dont ruin the show.

On the Haitian supress ability:
-The Haitian has a mind power and he can supress mind powers
-He cannot supress things like cellular regeneration even if there are suggestions that it is controlled by the mind.

-If he could supress them then they could kill Adam easily. But they can't kill him !!!

-Also again from Matt's experiences -> The Haitian generates a telephatic white noise and that can supress mind powers or powers that need high conentration and control. Such as TK, mind reading, etc

-In season one Mohinder said to Peter that his absorbing ability is gene based. Somehow his genes changes themselves as a chameleon changes color and absorb other super gene generated powers.

-So there are 2 distinct level of Peter's power. One is the original power which is cellular based.
Somehow he can feel and catch up what makes up other powers and integrate themselves in his genetic makeup
I got this from episodes not from theories only
-There is another level. His abilities which he got. They are NOT original ablities. He just uses his main power to use secondary powers. So there is a hierarchy.
Because of this the Haitian shouldn't be able to supress his absorbing abilitiy and Peter must have the Haitian's ability.

-Anyway we have another person with multiple abilities. Sylar. He got them by analyzing brains and understands how they work. So he basicly learns thougt and brain activity patterns and learn abilities that way. I think the reason for his loss is: When he died we saw people's who he got power from in his eyes. I think at his near death experience he forgot them. That knowledge is ereased from him.(But if this is not the reason it is not so important this part is just a theory)
So i can imagine that his powers can be completely shut down by the Haitian cause they are all heavily mind powers. Even his understanding power is based on higher mental functions. But with Peter that is not the case.

OK. What i wrote about sylar is not so important. The main thing is that Peter has cellular based absorption power. And if Peter wouldn't have cellular based power than the memory clearing ereased his abilities too.
So the Haitian can't supress his main power: absorption of other powers. Or if he can that is a DC.

That would also explain why he wasn't able to stop Nathan on first season when him and Bennet were trying to catch him and Nathan just flew away.

OP is making too many assumptions. Maybe the Haitian can negate an area, like an aura. Maybe he can also just throw a block on someone in particular. That blows almost all of your problems out of the water. Maybe a negation power like the Haitians can't be absorbed. Or maybe it always have dominance, thus will negate Peter's leech power before it can turn on. Maybe maybe maybe.

All the powers revolve around the brain it seems. Maybe he has actually "will" somethings to heal. Break a leg? Well that won't work for your body, so it auto heals. You would also want it to heal on the most basic level of brain activity. Now if you just lose some memories.....so what? Your body can still function normally. You aren't even aware that something is wrong so why would you, or your subconscious, try to initiate some healing.

Why is this a discontinuity?

I've thought from the beginning that the powers in "Heroes" originate from the human brain, and that all of the powers are simply a result of humans figuring out -- either consciously or subconsciously -- how to "unlock" that portion of their own mind that controls that ability. You know how they say we only use 10% of our brains? My theory is that the other 90% contains these powers, all of them, and that the whole idea behind "Activating Evolution" is that humans are steadily figuring out how to open their minds enough to use the powers.

This explains what Sylar is doing and how he is able to get people's powers... remember he was able to look at watches and instantly figure out how they work? When he kills someone and studies their brain, he is able to visually figure out which portion of the brain controlled that person's ability and "unlock" it in himself.

It also explains why the Haitian's suppression abilities and mind-erasing abilities are NOT separate powers. Since all of the abilities originate from within the human brain, the Haitian is able to temporarily suppress the operation of the power in the same manner he can erase a portion of the memory.

The Hatian can supress any power.

All Sg powers are controlled by the brain.

The Hatian can control your brain, he can supress Claires power or Peters Empathy power


SO.......................................



If the Hatian switches Peters Empathy power off - Then Peters Empathy power can not absorb the Hatians ability.

I thought it was clear , but I understand the misconceptions.

Peter does not have the Hatians power automatically - Unless the Hatian wanted him to have it.

If the Haitian switches off Peters empathy(power absorption), then you would assume he would be powerless, considering it's his empathy that allows him to access these abilities. Since Peter was capable of flying away from the Haitian and HRG on the Deveaux rooftop, then his absorption ability had to have been active.

Who knows, maybe he simply doesn't know how to use the power yet, I mean, we are talking about Peter Petrelli here. The guy jumped off a swing-set multiple times trying to figure out how to fly, so to say the least, the guy is definitely a slow learner.

The Hatian on the roof top either wasn't close enough to Peter or Didn't want to stop Peter .

He was certainly close enough, but I agree he didn't want to stop Peter probably due to his obligations to Angela Petrelli. My point was that if the Haitian was blocking Peters ability to absorb powers, then wouldn't that be the same as blocking all of Peters powers? This gives possibility that Peter did in fact absorb the Haitians ability and just isn't aware of it.

As far as i understood, the Haitians power needs to be turned on.

with Matt it is mentioned that Mr Bennett (HRG) and the Haitian knew that the FBI and Matt were after them so the Haitian put on a perm block over HRG.

It has also been proven that a more powerful SG can break the power of the Haitian.

I like to think of the Haitians power as a bubble, it can expan and contract, so although the haitian was not blocking peter (he was not in the bubble) the haitian power could not be absorbed because the bubble was still around the Haitian, as said above certain powerful SG's can burst that bubble, only then can peter absorb his power. since that has only happend twice (once in show and once in comic) this has not happened yet.

Adam i think was talking about his own power, from his experience. healing the brain is far more complex than a arm or leg.

we still currently do not know everything about brains and how they work unlike legs.

you do make a valid point, but we have not been given sufficient info on the type of brain damage to know if it is scaring or nerve blocking.

I feel you are searching too hard for a reason for certain things and missing some facts.

I am still happy you are enjoying the show. but the Haitian power is explained and the evidence is there i also suggest you read the online comics as they give ALOT or back ground info. and might fill in your gaps!!!

First, ouch. Second, ouch. Now onto discussion as many others have probably said before but I shall again reiterate.

The Haitians powers may be able to do a background effect and may also be able to do a directed effect. He may be able to turn either or both of these on or off at any time. We know nothing so we cannot make assumptions.

Now onto making assumptions . Assuming the Haitian can do both, that means he can turn off his white noise and direct at Peter allowing Elle to spark him without Peter gaining the Haitians abilities. It also means the Haitian can erase Peters memories.

BTW, who ever said they WANTED to kill Adam. I should say who out of the people we can trust has said they wanted to kill Adam.



This is exactly the reason why I think Adam lied to Peter. I don't think it takes healing to remember his memories. We don't know if the Haitians powers literaly destroy the connections but we can assume that whatever he does is not healthy for the brain. In any case, I think if what Adam said was the truth, then Peter should have healed the moment the Haitian left him. Peter required memory prompts to remember so I am one of the few that its a side effect of Charlies powers that allowed Peter to remember through a mind wipe.

Just because you have healing, doesn't mean you remember every single thing that has happened to you in your life. Memory would be a very confusing thing if it were perfect. So maybe his healing power was just having a little trouble figuring out WHAT it should remember. It remembered his mom, when he met his mom in the future. Adam just helped him remember more.
As for Haitian vs. Peter, this is the way I see it:
The Haitian's power over rules all other abilities. It doesn't matter if Peter can absorb other people's powers, he can't absorb the Haitian's powers. It doesn't matter if Peter has Matt's mind powers, he can't stop the Haitian's powers without straining really, really hard.
So how did Elle fire lightning? The Haitian has figured out how to allow any powers to work that he wants to work, such as Elle's lightning and Peter and Adam's healing.

Wow
generally:
Reasonable opinions. I think i can agree with many of them. However i still tend to believe that tha Haitian can't supress cellular regeneration but this topic must be uncovered by the writers in the storyline. I don't think that there was no time when they wanted to kill Adam. And the Haitian was a very loyal member of the company team in those years.

I can agree that it is possible that the Haitian can chose what he wants to turn on or off and on who . He is pretty powerful i think. Probably the most powerful? Cause he degrade conflicts to a level when others can only fight as 'normal' humans while he can fight as an SG. And we saw at Mohinder that he don't need to touch to cause some hour of amnesia or catatonic state. I also wonder if a developoed Matt could 'beat' the Haitian in a possible conflict.

the rooftop incident in season 1: As i read about it here i think there has to be a very high possibility for Peter to have it but due to overpowered issues i think he won't get it. I think they were close enough, but I also think that the writers didn't think in these things so seriously. They didn't think that these things will cause so much analyzing among the community. Think in it. 10-20-30 meters and the logic and continuity has to be totally different. In one case Peter has the ability in the other he hasn't.


I love these theoires but let me a bit OFF:
If this 90% theory is true then Adam has 400 years and an already present SG to experiment with all other powers. So he could be a natural self developing multiple SG!Think in it! 400 years of experience, developing neural and synaptic connections.... . He must have heard about hypnosis, meditation and all things like that. It is impossible that he didn't look around in these topics. He searched such people, special people(p.e. the 12).
So he could train himself to be adept at controlling his brain and should have incredible experience and knowledge. So he should be a multiple SG too
But this is not the case i think and anyway this is a bit off. Just theories about the system