Sounds like a plan to me. Don't feel weird; I was telling Mr. PL that I'm really enjoying it even though I'd just finished reading his very private diary entries. It does give you chills.

This is the first Nabokov I've read though I've really been curious about his other works. His writing is intense and the flow is gorgeous. Charlotte just died and I have to say the only person I really feel for is Dolores. I mean, I feel bad that Charlotte died, but I didn't really care for her character. Humbert is just shocking, but I tend to follow his movements like he's a spider.

It's weird because it's one of the first novels where the narrator whom you are supposed to sympathize with is such a horrible person (I love books like this; my favorite novel is probably Crime and Punishment and it's a similar situation though I don't feel as guilty for liking Raskolnikov). It's unsettling when you realize that you are sympathetic. I love the way that Humbert plays with the reader, leading you on and making you want him to do things that are horrible. The best example of this was when he was at the lake with Charlotte and he's talking about how easy it would be to drown her and make it look like an accident. You reach a point where you're like "just do it already" and he gets you like "Oh now who's a horrible person; you want me to kill her." Just, brilliant.

One of the things I missed until we discussed it in class was the way Humbert plays the reader with regards to his Annabell Leigh and the tie in to the Poe poem. I have to say, I kind of respect him in a weird way. Kind of like the way I respected Tom Sawyer for getting the other kids to whitewash the fence. It's one of those things where you shake your head but you end up saying that someone who let's themselves get taken like that deserves it. Obviously, Lolita doesn't but you have to give the guy credit for making his case so well.

I love Lolita--I need to re-read it again!!

Okay, so here's the plan: we're gonna keep talking about Sister Carrie but the book for May will be Lolita by Nabakov. I'll link it in my sig tonight.

(Darn! I started Crime and Punishment, but I haven't finished it. I'll have to start over...)

I know what you mean about the lake scene. I was sucked in by his descriptions and thoughts about how he would kill her. Awful, terrible, but true. And I was like you, "Just kill her already." I think that for all his craving for Lolita, he's rather almost incompetent. Do you know what I mean? I'm not sure if I'm supposed to think that of him because it's true or because he's leading me on. He's very sly and tricky though I can completely see that at some point, he's going to carry it too far and everything will fall apart.

I missed the Poe reference. Where is it? I mean, I'm not done with the book yet, but was it early on?


Yay, Wedd! Howdy!


Sounds like a plan.

The first time I read Lolita in college, I missed the whole damm thing. I didn't catch any of the references or the throwbacks at all. I had to go and reread it again immediately and then I understood. It's one of those books that everytime you read it you find something new.

My copy of the book is at home but I think it's in chapter two or three (very early in the book). Humbert is trying to explain that his lust for Lolita is rooted in an unconsummated summer love from when he was younger with a girl called Annabell Leigh at a beach resort of sorts.

And here's the poem by Poe:


Annabel Lee

It was many and many a year ago,
In a kingdom by the sea,
That a maiden there lived whom you may know
By the name of ANNABEL LEE;
And this maiden she lived with no other thought
Than to love and be loved by me.

I was a child and she was a child,
In this kingdom by the sea;
But we loved with a love that was more than love-
I and my Annabel Lee;
With a love that the winged seraphs of heaven
Coveted her and me.

And this was the reason that, long ago,
In this kingdom by the sea,
A wind blew out of a cloud, chilling
My beautiful Annabel Lee;
So that her highborn kinsman came
And bore her away from me,
To shut her up in a sepulchre
In this kingdom by the sea.

The angels, not half so happy in heaven,
Went envying her and me-
Yes!- that was the reason (as all men know,
In this kingdom by the sea)
That the wind came out of the cloud by night,
Chilling and killing my Annabel Lee.

But our love it was stronger by far than the love
Of those who were older than we-
Of many far wiser than we-
And neither the angels in heaven above,
Nor the demons down under the sea,
Can ever dissever my soul from the soul
Of the beautiful Annabel Lee.

For the moon never beams without bringing me dreams
Of the beautiful Annabel Lee;
And the stars never rise but I feel the bright eyes
Of the beautiful Annabel Lee;
And so, all the night-tide, I lie down by the side
Of my darling- my darling- my life and my bride,
In the sepulchre there by the sea,
In her tomb by the sounding sea.

Humbert is clearly an intellectual and this is just the kind of thing that would appeal to him, possibly even making up Annabel Leigh entirely and then calling it coincidence that she has the same name as Poe's poem but with a different spelling. It's such a beautiful poem too. I didn't think of it that way until our professor mentioned it. But when you reexamine the passage, there's a lot of similarities in the wording choice Humbert uses.

I know the poem; I love it. I'll have to go back and look for it.

Lenny, guess what? I went to the library and browsed their book sale and I found Angle of Repose for $1. Oh yes, it has now been added to my stacks.


How's Sister Carrie going?

We just finished Beloved for class and are starting The Hours which is a quick read, so I should have some time this weekend to read Sister Carrie. So far I have to agree with her sister and brother-in-law about how she doesn't realize how lucky she is or how her actions are affecting those around her. She's in for a rude awakening.

I love The Hours! A great read.

I know what you mean. I don't want to spoil your perspective, but most of the time, I wondered if she had a brain in her head. I guess the point is that she's more of an emotionally driven person...

Me too, although I actually like the movie adaptation better.

I have to read Fiela's Child over the summer. Has anyone read this book? If so, what is it about?

I'm still not that far in Sister Carrie but classes and finals are almost over (I actually have a huge gap between me two finals so I should get some reading done then). I just reached the part where she left her sister's and is taking Drouet up on his offer of "loaning" her money until she gets back on her feet. I think I got a paper cut trying to slap her through the page. She has met the guy, what, three times and she's accepting money from him for no reason? I'm not sure if she's hopelessly naive or just plain dumb.

How are you doing with Lolita?

It's about an abandoned white child who is taken in by a black family and raised as one of their own, and then years later is forced to go and live with an illiterate white family who claim that he is their son, and the child's subsequent search for his cultural identity. It was originally written in Afrikaans, and is set in 19th century South Africa. It's a beautifully written book. I can't remember the author. It's not an easy read, but it's good.

Ugh, I'm going with dumb. Naive doesn't cut it. Let me know when you get past that part, 'cuz I've got some questions. I was so irritated with her.

Good so far. I'm taking a break, but I'll get back to it soon.

I have no more papers and I only have one final left tomorrow! I finally have time to finish Sister Carrie. How's everyone doing with Lolita?

Yay! Good luck on your last final!!

Lolita is going well though I have been distracted by John Adams. He's gone to pick up Lolita from camp and he's planning what to do next. The man's conceit is astonishing, but it is an accurate portrait. I can't imagine writing like that. It is astounding.

I've been distracted from Sister Carrie by The Parable of the Talents so don't feel bad. That part is one of the best. We had this huge discussion in class about how when Lolita was first published a lot of people had a difficult time distinguishing between the message of the narrator and the message of Nabakov himself.

Also, do we want to do East of Eden for June or for July?

Yeah, I just started Lolita again on May 29th. I do love this book, though.

That's fine Wedd. I've discovered that the month thing is more of a guideline for what we've been reading lately. I'm still only around page 100 of Sister Carrie and I could talk about Lolita forever. I'll post June's book tomorrow (probably) it's gonna be East of Eden by the way and hopefully all of the people who showed an interest in it on the What are you reading thread will come by.

Thunder storms kept me from coming on for any length of time yesterday so here's the update.

June
East of Eden by John Steinbeck

"This sprawling and often brutal novel, set in the rich farmlands of California's Salinas Valley, follows the intertwined destinies of two families--the Trasks and the Hamiltons--whose generations helplessly reenact the fall of Adam and Eve and the poisonous rivalry of Cain and Abel."

We'll still be talking about both Sister Carrie and Lolita as well. Feel free to jump in on any of it.

Just finished Lolita for the fifth or sixth time. It always strikes me how absolutely obsessive he is. It is very disturbing.

When I was in college I told my professor that I wish that there had been a companion book--a telling of Lolita from her side. What went through her mind? How much of what he said was true? Who should be believed?

The reason you end up reading a book like Lolita that many times is trying to figure out what's real and what's his manipulation or his obsession. It would have been interesting to read a companion piece from her perspective but I don't think it would have been any less biased. It would be one of those things where you would never be able to get the objective story. At the same time though, I'm kind of glad that we only get the one side.

The best scene for me (aside from the swimming scene when Humbert is playing with the reader over whether he's going to kill the mother or not) was the ending scene where he killed what's-his-name in the house. It was so crazy and over-the-top, it was perfect.

I am still reading Lolita; I am awful. He is terribly obsessive. His vocabulary seems to grow now that he has Lolita and they're traveling around the country.

Agreed! I would be interested to read that. Especially what I just read, if I read it correctly which is her completely blase and reading a newspaper during a "session" with Humber.

East of Eden sounds great! I'm curious to read it and that sounds just about right. Excellent choice, Lenny!

Lolita is probably my number one top recommendation of the books he wrote in English. I also loved Pale Fire, but mostly because it contained so much fodder for graduate level literature papers... It's not the most accessible book because of its structure, but if you're in the mood, it's absolutely brilliant.

Of the novels written in Russian and which Nabokov himself later translated into English, Despair is my favorite (I like it better than Lolita, if I must be honest). I think that the foundation for Humbert Humbert lies in the main character(s?) of this novel. If you're looking to add to your existential reading list, then Invitation to a Beheading is a must read.

Thanks OH. I sense another trip to Barnes & Noble for even more summer reading books.

Has anyone heard of or read Fiela's Child?

I answered you about this already. Post 263. Scroll up.

East of Eden.

This is the third time I've read it. I love Steinbeck's descriptions of the Salinas Valley. I've never been to that part of California, but I feel like I have when reading this book.
Cathy Ames is one of the most evil, if not the most evil, literary character. Steinbeck's description of her physical features is burned in my brain. She couldn't be anything but evil.

I just read the chapter about Olive Hamilton and her airplane flight. Her geography was her family, her town, her county. I love how she was wondering if she turned off the back porch light as she's waiting for the plane to crash.

Oooooh, nifty!! I'll have to look those up.


Heh heh heh. Yessssss.

I just ordered East of Eden; I'm so far behind. Still reading Lolita. I'm enjoying it, I'm just so darn slow. He's starting to feel paranoid! FINALLY!

I just started reading it last night myself. I had to finish Hocus Pocus by Kurt Vonnegut first but I got through the first chapter and it reminded me why I love Steinbeck so much. The description of the Salinas Valley and the history of the area were so beautiful and just the perfect way to describe the transition. The significance of the different names was wonderful and so insightful.

And Humbert's downward spiral is amazing to read.

Still plugging away on Sister Carrie, very, very slowly. I think we finally found the perfect mate for Franken-whine. His self-pity and her complete ignorance would go so well together, don't you think?

I'm just starting Chapter 8 of East of Eden and I just love the flawless way that Steinbeck is able to allude to Biblical stories. It isn't hitting the reader over the head with it, it's much more subtle and subversive. And the message he sends in using the allusions he does is all the more powerful because of his technique. "The proofs that God does not exist are very strong, but in lots of people they are not as strong as the feeling that He does." Does a better wording of that sentiment exist?

Ah, I just finished East of Eden for the first time a few weeks ago, and it definitely is high up on my favorite books. The way he writes is so fluid and his characters so vivid and real



Olive's airplane ride was one of my favorite parts! =)

I won't be getting East of Eden until mid-July. So I will have to skip it probably here. But whatever the next book is, I'll be ready. I think.

Still reading Lolita...I can't believe the man's conceit.

I was actually going to extend it into July because I mislaid my copy last week and only just found it again this morning (we're redoing the wallpaper in the upstairs hallway so the bookcase was moved into my room and in the rearranging I put it down and then blocked off access to it; yeah, smooth move on my part). So don't worry, we're not going to rush through such a great book. I just reached the part where Adam and Samuel meet. I can't believe Cathy's complete lack of regard for others. So heartless. And yet it's fitting that she and Charles would feel some kind of mutual respect even if they don't trust one another.

Okay, I just bought East of Eden on your recommendation. I will start tonight. Maybe I will actually take part in a discussion this time.

dont be deterred if you find the first few chapters to be slow and boring. It quickly picks up the pace, and it was hard for me to put it down. not too much action, but a lot of symbolism and themes.

I'm a little more than halfway through. There are parts of this book where almost every sentence could be the start of its own book. The whole Cain and Abel discussion between Adam, Samuel and Lee, "thou mayest" ...I had to reread that section a few times.

I gotta say that that was one of my favorite parts of the book. And in my opinion is the message of the book. Lee is by far my favorite character


agreed. Every sentence is written so beautifully and meaningfully. I'm not lying when i say i love Steinbeck and East of Eden

Well, I started a few days late. I am up to the part where Cathy goes to Charles' bed. What an evil woman. And I know it gets worse. . The beginning was pretty slow, but it is picking up now.

Isn't she awful? I'm so glad you're reading this too!! Remember that she slept with Charles...it will help you understand some things that happen later on.

So when can we discuss without spoiler bars? How far along is everyone?

I don't know about lifting the spoiler bars--I'd like to keep them for a while, if possible.

As for sleeping with Charles, believe me, I won't forget that. I am pretty sure that baby is his. As of now, she is still pregnant, but she just told him when the baby comes, she is leaving.

I'm about as far as Wedd. Adam has all of his plans going for the farm and he's started discussing things with Samuel. Whatever bad that's going to befall Adam because of Cathy, I'm not sure how much sympathy I'm going to be able to feel for him. I mean, she's told him that she doesn't want to be there and he just won't listen to her. I know a few guys like that and that kind of attitude is just begging for trouble.

And I love Lee too. His line about how people understand him more when he speaks Chinee because they expect it is one of my favorites so far.

Yeah, I mean, I still don't get the attraction or the reasoning for the marriage. Was it just to escape the farm? He couldn't force his brother to go so he'll marry some beat up woman and make her go? I'm still pretty lost on the motivation here. Hopefully I'll be able to get further tonight.

We quickly see what kind of person Adam and Cathy are. Cathy, by far, is one of the worst villains in any story I've ever read, always deceiving and undermining. It's very easy to tell how Steinbeck views women. And Adam is full of heart, but no conscience, blindly loving Cathy even though she's just waiting for the opportune moment to get away. Adam's unyielding love is VERY apparent when Cathy finds that opportune moment. I won't mention any more than that

I mentioned this before, but Lee is by far my favorite character, because he is the unwavering wisdom and philosophy throughout the novel. He is not affected by all the issues over love and always has a clear head with answers to anything. He serves as a guide for Adam's emotions and feelings, helping us, the readers, to learn a few lessons from their circumstances. Many great messages to the reader come from Lee.

Wow, this is going to be hard for me to discuss! With Lolita I had read it a bunch of times already so I wasn't afraid of spoiler bars, but now I am! If I get spoiled, it's my own fault. I need to try to get through some more of it so I don't get ruined!

If I have one criticism of Steinbeck it has got to be the women in his stories. They are either pure evil like Cathy or they're entirely underdeveloped. Even the strong women who could be role models aren't very prominent or are complimented in a back handed way. Look at the narrator's mother, Olive. The only exception I think I've read is maybe Ma Joad in The Grapes of Wrath.

Sorry, that's coming from the Feminist criticism school of my English major side. It doesn't lessen the value of his work, it's just annoying. But Hemingway is much the same way. Still love them both.

I read another 79 pages this afternoon, and therefore feel qualified to give my English major opinion. I will try not to use too much technical jargon in my analysis:

This b1tch is crazy!

That is all.

couldnt have put that better myself!

Okay, I pulled a marathon and finished the book. And I have to say (and please don't throw garbage at me) I didn't love it. I think I was thinking more of Adam and Charles and Cathy having a huge love triangle, fight for the kids, and I didn't expect Charles to just die and that was it, I thought he would play a role. I was upset when Samuel died and I guess I just didn't have any interest in Cal & Aron. I know they were reliving Adam & Charles' life, but I just didn't care too much. And that whole Abra thing--she loved Cal at the end? Come on.

I'm not going to say there wasn't beautiful writing, but I just didn't care too much. I had my own story written out, and when it didn't go even close to where I thought it was, I wasn't that interested. I do agree with Lenny--Lee is awesome! I'm so glad he made it to the end.

You may shun me now.

i partially agree with you, Wedd. While I loved the book and consider one of my favorites, i do agree that it didn't turn out as i expected, and there were so many things that just made me go "well, crap, why did that have to happen?" The ending was very dry for how deep and profound the entire book was. I like that it ended in the way that it did, but it was very sudden and could have been written to give much more impact on the reader. It was almost as if Steinbeck could have kept writing from there but decided to make it the end, and it was hard to determine the climax of the novel.

despite what i said, i still thoroughly enjoyed East of Eden, but I still felt the need to mention what i didn't care for

oh, and Post 200!! (cuz thats impressive...lol)