A little over a week ago, I suggested over on the What Book Are You Reading? Thread that it might be fun to have an Office Book Club kind of thread. I was surprised at the level of interest shown. Anyway, I was going to announce the first book choice at the beginning of the month but between vacations and the holiday I didn’t have time. So, the first book will be for the end of July and August. With the upcoming release of the last Harry Potter book it makes sense to spread the first one out and give everyone who wants to participate plenty of time. The announcements for future months will be listed and linked here as well. PM any further suggestions for selections to me. The most popular recommendations will be picked.

July/August 2007: Absalom, Absalom! By William Faulkner


Absalom, Absalom!

In Absalom, Absalom!, first published in 1936, William Faulkner tells the story of Thomas Sutpen, the enigmatic stranger who came to Jefferson in the early 1830’s with a French architect and a band of wild Hatians to wrest his fabulous mansion out of the muddy bottoms of the north Mississippi wilderness. He was a man, Faulkner said, “who wanted sons and the sons destroyed him.” His tragedy left its impress not only on those who knew him personally, but also on those, like Quentin Compson, who are haunted, even into the twentieth century, by Sutpen’s legacy of ruthlessness and his single-minded disregard of the human community.

Bumping the thread and opening up the discussion. I've been busy and haven't had much time to really get into the book yet (my fifteen minute breaks aren't long enough) but I know that the beginning especially is a little confusing. I don't know what's included in other editions of the book (mine happens to be quite old) but mine includes a chronology as well as background stuff on the major characters coming up. Anyone who wants it just needs to PM me.

Okay, this is an interactive thread but I'm willing to be the first to post about the book. I am by no means half done, let alone finished, but that doesn't mean we can't talk about it. I've only finished the first two chapters myself. Looking for an idea about who's going to be joining in, anyone having trouble getting ahold of the book, getting through it, etc. Faulkner was a difficult pick for the first book. Maybe would have been a good idea to go with something lighter. Anyway, in hopes of provoking conversation, some topics for discussion:

What do you think about the first two narrators, Miss Coldfield and Quentin's father?
What are your first impressions of Compton?

Again, this is meant to be laid back so feel free to post any questions about the book that you might have. We're all going through it together. And remember, we're doing this for fun, not for a report or anything like back in high school.

I'm sorry Lenny. I didn't see this earlier. I think this is a fantastic idea. I've been wanting to read more books, but I kind of need a guide to help me decide where to begin. Plus, I really like discussing what I read so this will make it easier and more purposeful for me.

I'll try to pick up Absalom Absalom! soon and maybe even start this weekend, but I can't guarantee anything. (Funny thing is, I was already intending on going to the bookstore tonight to pick up a book for my brother). And just to warn you, I'm a slow reader and my mind is easily distracted by my own thoughts, so I may have a hard time keeping up. But I'm going to try.

No problem BJB. This thread will probably be slow going at first. I know I for one will be reading the new Harry Potter book after I pick it up tomorrow. I guess I picked a bad time to start what with all sorts of members going on vacations and stuff (myself included). Oh well, it's great that you'll be joining us.

Hey Lenny! I just wanted to let you know that I plan on participating too. I've started it but I'm only in the middle of the first chapter, and I have to admit it's been a little overwhelming. I'm an avid reader, and I love the classics, but I'm already having a hard time keeping everything straight. I hope I'm not the only one with this problem, or at least if I am, that others won't mind explaining a few things. In the mean time, I'll press on, and think about your questions!

Lenny, I'm there with ya too, I didn't want you to think I had forgotten about thie book club! I agree that Absalom! might have been a very rough first one to tackle -- or any Faulkner for that matter. I haven't picked mine up yet -- we are in the middle of renovating a new house and packing up the one we are in now, so all of my books are in boxes -- and will be for a couple of weeks at least. I will be reading Harry Potter next week anyway, so when I do get around to Faulkner, it may be a few weeks from now.

I wish I could enter in on the discussion, maybe I can cheat and get online for the cliff notes and add to it.... :0 I would never!

Stick with it Queen. Chapter One is definitely tough but Chapter Two is a little clearer. I can send out the chronology that came with my book and the character descriptions, but I think they may give stuff away. I ended up reading through them a little but then realized something that will probably be revealed much later.

Hey HereComesTrouble. Yeah, we picked a tough one. But I think it'll be fun. Besides, when I realized how difficult it would be, I added August for us to read it during too. Let me just say, that September's choice will probably be really short and easy in comparison.

I'm happy to see all the interest.

I don't know how far everyone is in the book yet, so by all means don't read the question I'm posing if you haven't read at least the first chapter:










There are a few things that we found out through Miss Coldfield's veiled narration. One of the ones that I feel will be big is the fact that Henry (Sutpen's son) killed the fiance of his sister Judith (Sutpen's daughter). I just want to see what you guys think is the reason behind his actions. I have my suspicions but with the chronology and character descriptions it feels like a spoiler (which I don't want to post for anyone who might not want to know). Just curious about what eveyone else thinks so far. Oh, and do you think that Sutpen had anything to do with it?

At the very real risk of irritating people... I just finished "Mr. Darcy and Me". Anyone read it? So light it floats, but a nice distraction from other things.
William Faulkner is a lot of work to read for the summer, to me. But his take on the South and the mentalities there are unequaled. Except for Mark Twain. And that's another angle entirely.
Anyway all, sorry for the Jane Austen reference, but I couldn't find the thread (maybe that's a good thing, it nearly takes on a life of it's own in my experience).

Is this by the lady who writes the books after Pride and Prejudice?

I wish I had known about this sooner! I would've gone out and read the book, especially considering the fact that I love Faulkner and that's one I haven't read. Should I just wait for the next one or is it not too late yet?

No, but I know who you're talking about. It's less contrived than those books are, imo. This is more of a "Nanny Diaries" contemporary perspective with a twist. It's well enough written, though. Sorry not to remember the author's name - it was a library book and I left it down the shore.

We'll be working on Absalom, Absalom! through August because it's such a tough one and there's a lot of Harry Potter distraction going on right now (I know I set the book aside for the few days I was reading Harry Potter). We'll be happy to have you join us Stapler in Jello. It'll be easier to get through if we're all trying to figure it out together.

Anyway, by no means are the other selections going to be as tough as this one (I probably wouldn't have chosen it if I'd realized just how tough it would be; the other Faulkner I've read wasn't nearly as confusing as this one, I mean Wow). I have a few ideas for a pick for September but nothing is set yet (I know, it's a little early to be thinking about it already). Suggestions are always welcome, just PM them to me.

Sounds interesting. I'll see if this one's at my library. If it is, I'll try to start it as soon as I'm done with Pet Sematary. Can you believe I've never read that one?

Okay, it was totally insane to pick Faulkner for the first book but please try to stick it out. We'll all have a tough time of it together. I'm almost halfway through the book and it's a little bit easier going (it's very repetitive at this point and I really hope that something new happens soon or I'll go mad). There's not really much to discuss yet but feel free to post any questions you may have and continue to PM me suggestions for September.

Lenny, I'm sorry, but I don't know if I'll be joining in any of the discussions soon. I was still in the beginnings of the book when I decided to start the Harry Potter books. That was probably a bad idea. Now I'm hooked on them. I'll get to Absalom Absalom, but it might not be until closer to the end of the summer. Sorry!

It is at my library, so I'll give it a go.

Harry Potter is totally addicting. I stayed up until 2 am to finish the last one. Definitely more engaging than Faulkner. Don't worry about it. The book choice for September will certainly be a less intense book. And I'm not sure how much there will be to discuss. I myself have switched it to my on break reading book and have been doing lighter reading. Still taking suggestions for September's book (though I have one in mind; how does everyone feel about Agatha Christie?).

Okay, instead of a discussion of this first book, how about we have a little contest to see just how many of us can make it through the book at all (doesn't even have to be by the end of the month). I know that for me, it's become personal. I no longer really care what happens, I just want to finish it (I had a similar reaction when reading Moby Dick for AP English in high school; of 30 kids in the class, I was one of 3 who actually read and finished the book, and on a side note, the day after I finished our priest preached the story of Jonah and the whale, no joke). When you finish add your name to the list (which the first person done gets to start; I've still got about 220 pages to go). Get in suggestions for future picks (I've pretty much made up my mind what September's book will be and will try to post it on Friday August 31). Don't give up hope. It can be done.

September

Okay, let’s try this again, a classic of a different sort. I know it’s mostly my fault. I was the one who picked Absalom, Absalom! I think it’s safe to say that we won’t be trying to get through Faulkner again anytime soon. But I think that the next choice is a safer one. The sentences don’t take up half a page and there are multiple paragraphs per page. I hope that not too many people have already read it.

Murder on the Orient Express by Agatha Christie

“Detective extraordinaire Hercule Poirot never refused an interesting case – but his services were certainly not for sale. When Mr. Ratchett approached him in the dining-car, he spurned the American’s generous offer.

But when Ratchett was found dead the next morning, Poirot responded with alacrity. Mysterious clues clouded the crime, but one fact was abundantly clear – with the train trapped in the heavy Balkan snowdrift, the killer could not escape!”

Now it might require the use of spoiler bars, but I think this could be fun. One thing that won’t be required but which I hope people will find fun would be for everyone to make their predictions as to who committed the crime when they first reach the murder scene (now I haven’t started it yet so I’m not sure just how well this will work, but I think it’ll be fun to try).

Sweet! I have that! I've read it. I love it.

I'm ready to discuss.

Awesome suggestion Lenny! I'll pick it up this weekend.

I'll try to get it this weekend. Nice choice, Lenny!

I think that it will be easier to get through than Faulkner.

Is everyone too busy watching their S3 DVDs to be reading?

It's been slow going for me (that's the problem with trying to do this book while I'm in two English classes and already have so much out of class reading to accomplish). I'm getting into a routine though and have had time to do some reading in Murder on the Orient Express (so far I've only made it up to the murder and the request for Poirot's help.

It's been a while since I've read Agatha Christie and I'd forgotten how much I love her simple descriptions of characters and scenes. It's so much more effective and enjoyable than, oh, say, the overly verbose and prosaic style of Faulkner. With Christie, it's easy to get at the meaning on the first reading as opposed to wading through Faulkner and maybe being right but not necessarily.

How's everyone else doing on the book? I hope everyone's enjoying it.

I loved it! But I'll wait until people are done to discuss it.

I'm going to finish the book Saturday. I don't care how long it takes me, I'm staying in bed until it's done. I haven't had a chance to read a book for fun in so long it's driving me crazy. Then the discussion can/will begin. I know you've been waiting patiently PaxLux. I've reached the part where Poirot is collecting evidence and getting everyone's stories. I see me on Saturday morning, sitting in bed reading, taking a break and watching some of tonight's episode, and reading some more. I doubt very much that the pjs will come off all day.

Oh, and I'm taking suggestions for October. Just pm me. If there are no suggestions, I may pick one of the ones from one of my English classes, kill two birds with one stone.

I'm ever-so patience when it comes to books. Except, of course, with Harry Potter.

I can't wait to see what you think! I have a suggestion, so I'll PM you.

I just want to say that that was an amazing book. I love Agatha Christie's creativity and although my favorite book of her's will always be And Then There Were None, this is my new second favorite.

The rest of this post contains spoilers for those who have any plans of reading it or are in the process of reading it so continue with care and caution...




















Towards the middle I began to refer to it as Reunion on the Orient Express and I did at one point guess that they had all been involved but I had only been kidding. I have also decided with my roommate that they do deserve to get off for the murder (they get points for their creativity as well as the guilt being divided between the twelve of them would make each only about 8% guilty).

So come on. What are everyone else's opinions? I'm waiting to hear from you in particular PaxLux.

I'll be posting October's pick within 24 hours for anyone who's interested. Jump into discussions of past books at anytime. There are no real guidelines or rules about the discussion. If you have questions post them. I'm looking forward to talking more about Murder on the Orient Express. I thought it was amazing and clever but what does everyone else think?

I love Murder on the Orient Express though I'm like you, Lenny, I prefer And Then There Were None. I love the solution to Orient Express; it's very elegant and clever. It's something, as an armchair detective, that I didn't think of. I mean, you think that at least 2 people were involved, but not that EVERYONE was involved. What an amazing twist. I love it. The thing that I like about Poirot is that he lets it go. He completed understands (as an ex-police officer) and just lets it go. I like the chapter(s?) where he's interrogating everyone. That too is a different set up than how most mysteries (or cozy mysteries) run. I like the structure, I like the caricatures (since there are so many, they're not full characters), I like that the solution has emotion and meaning. I'll cut my literary criticism short (have you taken that class yet, Lenny?).

What did you think?

I also liked how the book was set up. It was organized the way that you know Poirot's mind works. It adds to his characterization. And I agree about the solution. You reach a point where you're so confused with trying to figure it out that you just go, "everyone could have done it" and then you realize, "everyone did do it, I'm not totally crazy." And after the solution came out I turned to my roommate and said something about They are screwed. They're stuck on a train with not one but twelve murderers. But I liked how it was resolved. It made me comfortable (though it really should have made me at least a little unsettled ethically). That was where, as I posted before, I gave points for creativity and if the guilt is distributed between them all, there's not enough for any of them to have been convicted. We joked about how guilty would they have been if each had given themselves 110% instead of just 100% but couldn't stop laughing to actually calculate it.

October

To get everyone in the mood for Halloween I thought that this month’s pick should be Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein. We can keep the discussion open for the previously read books. I’m still eager to hear what other people think of Murder on the Orient Express.

"A monster assembled by a scientist from parts of dead bodies develops a mind of his own as he learns to loathe himself and hate his creator.
Frankenstein is a masterpiece of nineteenth-century Gothicism and the prototype of the twentieth-century science-fiction novel.

It was conceived in the Swiss Alps in mid-June 1816 after a conversation about bringing corpses to life provoked a nightmare, and was written over the next eleven months in largely morbid circumstances. Death and the terrors of childbirth--as much as Romanticism, a burgeoning awareness of unconscious drives, and contemporary ideas of atheism, the collapse of the social contract, and the corrupting influence of society on human nature--inform this story of a man (or monster) built by Dr. Victor Frankenstein and brought to life by electricity.

The monster's culpability for various horrific acts, his powerlessness in the face of his complete ostracism from society, and Dr. Frankenstein's lies, abdication of responsibility, and the pain he inflicts on his creation raised chilling questions that made the novel an immediate bestseller."

Sometimes the resolutions of Agatha Christie leave me a bit "unsettled ethically" too, as you put it. Like those where he lets the murderer commit suicide or something.

Frankenstein. Sweet! I thought I had a copy and I know I used to, but I don't think I do any more. I'll have to go pick it up. I've read it before, but I'm excited to re-read it now that I'm older.

In those kinds of cases I tend to feel a bit of a let down. I guess there's just no where else for the imagination to take the characters further when the murderer has killed himself. This ending leaves so much else that could have happened afterward; the sense of possibility.

I knew that the Count and Countess Andreyni had to be involved after just their interviews. There was something about them that just screamed "Look at me closer." The one whose involvement surprised me the most was probably the conductor. That one seemed like a stretch even after the explanation of his daughter's involvment in the Armstrong case was explained.

Still, nothing was more surprising than the end of And Then There Were None. It's pretty much the polar opposite in plot of Murder on the Orient Express. Instead of one murder with a dozen solutions, there are ten murders with seemingly no solution.

Agatha Christie was just brilliant. That's all there is to it.

In terms of reality, yeah, the whole deal stretches my disbelief a little bit. Of course, having Poirot conveniently around when there's a murder also stretches things too. In terms of clever writing and clever solution, it works on almost every level. If you want another clever solution of Agatha Christie's (almost all of hers are ever-so-clever), try Murder in Mesopotamia. I won't recommend The Murder of Roger Ackroyd since most people have already read it or know the solution.

I'm looking forward to Frankenstein. And I just got a coupon from Borders. Excellent timing!

I usually end up reading collections of her short stories (like The Thirteen Problems, though not actually a short story). With everything else I already have to read, these are easier to get through. And you're right about these detective types who seem to bring murder in their wake (what jumps to my mind is how high the murder rate in Cabot Cove must have been since a lot of the Murder, She Wrote episodes did take place in Maine.

I'm glad you're excited about Frankenstein. I started to read it before bed last night but was so over tired already I just fell asleep. Maybe tonight I'll have better luck.

(Yeah, we used to joke about poor Cabot Cove too.)

You're going to get a head start on me; I probably won't make it to Borders until this weekend.

So far, I haven't had time and tomorrow isn't looking so good either. We've just finished books in both my English classes and are starting new ones (Richard III for Shakespeare and The Lone Ranger and Tonto Fistfight in Heaven for Lit. Studies; the second one's short stories but I have to read 75 pages for Wednesday). Of course, this weekend is a long weekend so it's looking like I'll have a good chance of reading something not for school.

What did you think of Poirot's unveiling of his two solutions? I found it to be a little over dramatic but since it's something that the does on a regular basis, he's got to have fun with it, so it's forgiven. In reality, he probably would have whispered the solution to the doctor and M. Bouc and they would have waited until the train was able to move and get into station before saying anything to anyone, but that's just me.

You get Columbus Day off? What did you think of Richard III?

Poirot is, if anything, dramatic. I think he likes to put people on the spot, besides showing off his reasoning skills. I like working through his narrative of the events, but sometimes I just want him to get to the point! The other thing that frustrates me about Poirot, is that sometimes he will point out that he has no concrete evidence for what he thinks happened. But of course, someone confesses and that is what really happened.

Just once I want one of those detectives to be wrong. That would be the best detective story. In the end, they're completely wrong. They've over analized everything and it really was as simple as it first appeared. Even on Law and Order they have cases they lose or where they convicted the wrong person. Having a character that is never wrong greatly distorts the characterization. It does make for a good franchise though.

And what's with the confessions? In reality, a lot of perps would have lawyered up and denied it to their graves. In this one especially, they didn't have enough evidence on any one or two for a conviction so why didn't they just keep quiet about it or find an all encompassing clue/evidence after the fact? Oh, well. It was still a brilliant ending. And I find it hard to believe that not one of the three investigators recognized Arden if she was such a famous actress. They would have at least seen her likeness on posters or in the papers at some point, right?

Yeah, those were the days when you could wear a black veil and no one would recognize you and you could get away with murder, literally.

(Are we the only ones that visit here anymore?)

That's what it's looking like. It might have something to do with the premire. As things get going there will be more people popping in (I hope).

Well, I'll stick with the book club. If anything, we can just talk about books.

I can't help it. As an English major it's just in me to analyze books to death. Actually, I can always tell I like a guy because he can talk books with me. It's like my ultimate test. It doesn't necessarily have to be a really good book and we don't have to agree, but he has to at least read.

Lenny, that is a great ultimate test. I love talking books. I love analyzing books. Don't get me started on The Da Vinci Code.

Would you bring The DaVinci Code so you could burn The DaVinci Code? It was the first of his books that I read and I thought it was good but Angels and Demons was better, and they still weren't all that great (I hated that they had Tom Hanks play Robert Langden).

Now The Poisonwood Bible by Barbara Kingsolver is a good book. I have been thinking of using it as one of the books some month but it's almost 700 pages and right now I just don't have that kind of time and wouldn't ask others to read that much accept over a long holiday/break season like the summer. Have you read it yet?

I read Angels and Demons first and I didn't like it. An interesting premise turned into a bad plot, bad writing and that whole part with jumping from the helicopter at the end? Gimme a break! Then I read The Da Vinci Code to see what the big deal was. I almost tore my hair out. I couldn't believe a book with terrible writing, a meandering plot full of holes & tenuous connections and 0 characterization could be making so much money (if you notice, the "controversy" doesn't seem to play a big part here in my criticism ). I should be so lucky to write something like that. My hubby wanted to read it and it wasn't allowed in the house because for him to read anything (and he reads a lot), it has to be bought, it can't just be from the library (not enough time for him to finish). So once it came out in paperback, I grudgingly bought it just so he could understand what made me scream erratically when people mentioned the book. Yeah, he wasn't that impressed either.

Most of the time I don't mind 700 pages (I've got doorstoppers here that I'm looking forward to reading), but I'll be reading Frankenstein by my fearless book club leader's request and The Time Traveler's Wife by someone else's request. So right now, I would like to check out The Poisonwood Bible, but I don't think I can.

(Congrats on the Red Sox! )