10-4 Golden Book!

I think that Bobby is a jack of all trades, and master at (almost) none!! He thrives on processing new info., the way he has had control in his life is to be the best he can be at what he loves best....being a Det. Obsessing over learning "everything" is how he deals with the past and present. He is not fluent in most of the languages he speaks, Chinese and ASL are some examples. There are several other things that he is not perfect at, just good enough to get the job done.

As a man, he has virtually no real outside of work life(that we know of) so work and learning new things is his whole life!!

I understand now,sorry for the 'Bumping' I've caused. I'm sure this will be another.

I'm just not as experienced as some on the board,I barely know how to use a computer! My husband has given me a few pointers,but it takes time,I'm not a whiz at it, as everyone can tell.

Hey 'FlaminAngel! Good name isn't it? I think Bobby is smart in a way that he concentrates on people and their actions before coming to any kind of solution.

Hello adree, please make yourself known on the Welcome thread at the top of the page and be sure to check out the links there as well on how to search the board.

Several new threads are created that can easily be absorbed into existing threads where the information that person is seeking can be found. This thread will probably be moved by our moderator, Rowe, in the next day or two.

Golden Book already pointed you in the direction of two existing Bobby Goren threads. If you just take a look through either of those two threads I am positive you'll find out why Goren is such a brainy guy.

Enjoy yourself!
Linda

Hey, no worries KRodgers! Bumps are not a bad thing! Throw in a comment about how awesome Goren or VDO is and you're right on topic, in just about any thread!

I've looked and haven't seen it posted here, (if it has been posted already - sorry for the repeat) but I find it so amusing that the fact that VDO was spotted buying a couple of sandwiches at a cafe practically makes me giddy and has me thinking, "Awww, that's so cute. He can buy his own food."

It was reported over at 'gawker' and also posted at the reelblog.

Thanks 'Urban Myth', I should'nt be so thin skinned. So, what's this about sandwiches?

Nice work with the welcomes and the pointers re: search, board crew! You do a mod proud.

Krodger she didn't mean it as a bad thing she was just bumping it up too .
Me thinks you 've miss interpeted .
Don't worry You'll get the hang of the computer how long have you had one .
When I first got online it was intimidating at first but after awhile I got the hang of it .
Don't be afraid to ask for help /questions were all here to help each other here.and you can always pm me anytime.

Your still my friend 'Not Saying'? You better be or I'll have to jam you up!HAHE!!! Thanks, I appreciate all support. I'll get the hang of it one day and surprise all of you!

Your welcome Krodgers.
LOL you funny .

Hello 'Not Saying'! You have to admit, I'm shady at times,even most of the time!

Over the years Goren's past/childhood has been revealed in bits and pieces. List the episodes and seasons and what we have learned it. If your not sure but can remember the bits or pieces post it, the rest of the goren-a-holics can fill in the blanks.



My father would come home at night, and I could smell them on him. I was ashamed.
Legion Season Two

Neat idea, abfirefighterchick. I know these bits of information about Goren but have a hard time remembering the episodes or context. This will help!

I saw this one just the other day. I believe the episode is Mad Hops, Season 3. There were a couple of insights into Goren's relationship with his father.

1) Goren said he stopped playing basketball when he saw it wasn't getting him what he wanted, i.e. his father's attention.

2) When searching the basketball coach's apartment, Goren noted that the coach ate his dinner while standing over the kitchen sink watching TV. Meaning the coach was lonely/alone. He said he'd seen the same set up at his father's apartment when he was cleaning it out after his father died.

For what it's worth, these thoughts came up because of some the ideas raised in the "Rocketman" episode thread. I decided to add my 2 cents worth of blah, blah in here, since it's more about Goren and VDO.


I think a lot of us fans are a wee bit testy with the lack of show info. This waiting for renewal/no renewal news is a drag and there's tendency blame and to point fingers. While I understand some of the fan frustration about Goren's/VDO's changed appearance over the years, the character nor the man can remain youthful and energetic forever. More's the pity.

I personally don't demand physical attractiveness from TV or movie stars to capture or hold my attention. The actor's talent is far more important to me (Humphrey Bogart comes to mind here). I'd say VDO was chosen to play Goren, primarily because of his acting talent. Even so, a great many viewers had never heard of Vincent D'Onofrio before CI made him a household name.

For better or for worse, Goren has changed along with the personal stories brought forth this year. His appearance and reduced energy levels could well be by design to indicate the personal stress the character is under. Whether this interpretation is accurate or is the best direction to have taken the Goren character is an issue that has been raised and debated many times.

Demanding VDO lose weight to appease an apparent need for a younger, fit Goren, doesn't work for me. Goren/VDO could be 100% perfectly fit, dancing around with the energy of ten actors and I don't think it could have raised the quality of scripts this year. It might have made the lack luster scripts more palatable though. Again, I don't want to debate the wisdom, or lack there of, of the current CI storyline direction. I'll only say I personally don't think it was the wisest path to choose.

I didn't tune into CI because of VDO's so called sex appeal. Appearance, sex appeal wise, Tom Selleck pushes my buttons far more than VDO does. (To each their own, right?) I tuned into CI because of the complex, intricately woven stories and then realized, "Oh my goodness...that's VDO playing Goren! No wonder the character is so good!" I was surprised, delighted, and a touch concerned to see VDO doing a TV series. Having no previous network TV experience, I don't think VDO realized the impact it would have on him as an actor or on his personal life. Many, many actors who've taken on TV roles have said they were stunned at not only the attention their roles brought them, but by the pace and physical demands of the outrageously long hours.

Do I want Goren to move on to happier pastures? You bet I do. I want the black hole of Momma Goren gone (as Bwalter so beautifully described). I want to see Goren move out from under her galactic hold, see the light at the end of the tunnel, get his freaking life back in a direction that brings him joy and enthusiasm.

Personally, I'm more interested in Goren getting his brains back, than whether or not our detective is ever physically svelte again.

PeachyBC

As the person who regurgitated the D'Onofrio appearance issue on the "Rocketman" thread (a post I have since modified), I'd like to thank Peachy for her intelligent response. We continue to disagree but I can respect her views.

It seems that each new season 6 Goren/Eames episode revives some of our frustrations about LOCI's execution generally and about Goren specifically.

The Goren issues are all about change. Is the character essentially changed from the original of early seasons? What about him is different? Is that better? Worse? At all important? Is season 6 Goren a logical progression from season 1 Goren? Is season 6 Goren as compelling and interesting as the original?

That last question is the heart of this discussion. It goes to the sustainability of LOCI if the show is renewed for a 7th season.

How many of us were drawn to LOCI by the uniqueness of the original Goren character? How many of us will continue to watch if that Bobby continues to disappear?

Inevitably the Goren issues become D'Onofrio issues. Is the original (and charismatic) Goren disappearing because D'Onofrio is no longer physically able to play him?

Granted, the scripts of late are nowhere near as sharp as in earlier seasons.

But my question is: Does D'Onofrio have a responsibility as an actor -- a profession in which one's body is the instrument of art and craft -- to maintain the physical fitness necessary to play his role?

Goren's physicality is more than just the leaping up on church pews or the poking and sniffing of corpses. Or The Lean. Or even the arias. We all could give examples at length, and we have -- affectionately -- on this board.

I believe these hugely entertaining expressions are missing now, not because of the string of "emotional episodes" in season 6, but in large part because D'Onofrio's has gained a good deal of weight.

It's sapped his energy. It even appears to have affected his breathing and therefore his capacity for long speeches -- as someone else noted on the "Rocketman" thread.

Had Goren been established as a different kind of character D'Onofrio's weight probably wouldn't be an issue. But he's not playing Nero Wolfe.

Many of us have expressed great devotion to D'Onofrio on this board. What is D'Onofrio's obligation to his fans (if he keeps his LOCI role and salary)?

I say this "actor's actor" is responsible for keeping his "instrument" in the shape needed to do his best with the requirements of the part.

He owes us arias.

Comments?

And please, let's not stray over to conjecture about D'Onofrio's personal life or health. That's not the discussion I'm suggesting.

AL

AL's post is possibly one of the most insightful opinions I've ever read on the Goren/LOCI issue. I can't add much to it, but I do want to address that tricky issue of VDO's weight. A nest of vipers, this one, but it's unavoidable and important, IMO.

PeachyBc knows my opinion on this matter, and I think Rowe does, too, so I am not moving onto 'unmentionable territory' here. VDO has made weight a part of authenticity. He himself brought poundage to the table, and so it is a legitimate point of discussion.

If VDO is going to insist on gaining weight to authentically play a part, then he can't be relieved from the burden of losing it when the part demands. He is also on record as saying that Goren would slim down later in Season 5. Never happened. (But the remark indicates to me that he knows that he has gained too much weight, and he knows he looks wrong for the part he created. Goren was never designed to be a gourmet/gourmand, or a Pilsbury Doughboy.)

Alarmingly,I saw VDO WADDLE in Season 5 and 6, but as AL and others have noticed, the loss of voice and energy are more disturbing still. As for "beached whale", I have to say that somewhere in the past on this board I actually called him a jelly donut.

Now you can hate me, but I think that VDO has not stayed true to the character in ways that he insists upon for other characters, including his Full Metal Jacket part, his Pooh Bear part and his Orson Welles part. I love him in all his guises, but Goren was NEVER meant to be Nero Wolfe.

Goren is not just intuitive and informed, he is, at his best, physicallly adroit and oddly graceful. IMO, one cannot divorce the physical from the intellectual in Goren. Together, they made the creature we fell in love with, and, while that might not be PC, it's true, I believe.

As for being 48 years old as an excuse....It's not a question of age. Goren/VDO is not jowely, as time and gravity work their ills upon us. He's just overweight, with a double chin, and a gut. The character is not well served by these remediable conditions.

I'm going to get personal here. Like VDO, I am in my late 40's. I, too, am Italian/American ethnicity. And for the love of God, I cannot drop this 20 pounds I have gained over the past three years. I have tried dieting, excercising.....it's still on me. And I used to drop weight in a flash.

The point is, I believe that Vincent continually tries to get back in shape, it's just so much harder as you get older. He really isn't overweight, as those who actually saw him at the DVD signing can attest (right CI Fan & VKFan?) He just has a little spare tire/ love handle thing going on. He still moves gracefully & can still do the waist bend thing. I don't see the big difference.

As far as personality is concerned, he is acting very much like Season 4 Goren. Quiet, introspective, moody, maybe a little dark. That is my very favorite Season, personally. I don't miss Season 1 & 2 at all.

And Erbe has aged as well. She's changed, even more so than VDO. She's still thin, but she has a puffy look in her face & a thicker waist than before. I just think that she REALLY works at her body, more so than VDO does. or perhaps it's easier for her, who knows?

So, let's not have false memory syndrome about Goren. He's been like this for about 3 years. Actually he looks & acts better than last year, IMO.

Until I see or hear different I'm going with the assumption that Goren's low energy and change in the waist size of his pants has to do with the character. Actually the weight I don't know about but I have noticed that when Goren is in distress-His hair is messier and his face is pretty scruffy giving him a tired rundown look. Yet in the same episode when he is clean shaven and hair is in place etc- he doesn't look so tired. I think a lot has to do with the s/ls.

If CI is renewed and VDO returns , which of course I hope happens, I'm looking forward to seeing what changes the death of his mother will have on Goren. Physically and mentally. It's strange when a parent dies, in my experience anyway, you mourn for them , you miss them but you wake up one morning and realize that you don't have to worry about them anymore.

In the interests of preserving Rowe's sanity and that of the other posters, I'll PM you, DJ. I have a foolproof diet that even Italian heritage (or German or Armenian or Martian) will succumb to, and that Mother Nature herself must reward. Easy, too, and no gimmicks.

BTW: Goren has looked heavy in only two years, by my reckoning. What third year? It isn't the love handles that are obvious, but the fat-kid-in-the-playground chin that lead me to think that it's so easily redeemed, with only a modicum of discipline (thinking about what one puts in one's mouth)

Thanks B! Any diet ideas are appreciated. If it works on me, we can write to VDO about it.

I meant 3 years of playing this particular personality - Season 4 to present. Dark, quiet not very animated or excited. You are correct, the pudge is 2 years. Worst last year, actually. IMO.

Right, Donna. He looks wonderful in person. As a matter of fact, he looks wonderful on the show. I don't know what all the hubbub is about.

No he isn't playing Nero Wolfe but he isn't Thomas Magnum either.

I agree actors have to keep their instument in shape but for this role he is still realistic, I don't think his lack of emotion is due to his weight. Even rotund William Conrad had great facial expressions. I read his sapped energy as part of Goren's depression in dealing with the family issues. They have certainly made sure the audience knows how much this is affecting him. I would see the depleted energy as part of that storyline. I'd certainly be depleted of energy is I had his work schedule and family issues to deal with.

We all change physically as we get older. I don't think Goren's character has a really wierd picture in his attic. His character is aging and changing as well. Between the increasing years and increasing stressors on Goren's life this is a realistic portrayal, physically and emotionally.

L&O has always been a realistic police drama. I don't see the weight gain by Vincent as being beyond the pale for realism.

Could it be affecting the ratings??? Sure but judging from the posts on this and other websites it's not what people are complaining about. It's the quality of the writing and character relationships, not the physical look of the actors.

I personally liked the energy of season 1 and 2 better. I think his character has really changed and I'm not sure how or why. So, I am tricking myself into thinking that if VDO looses weight the energy of the show will go back to the way it was. I doubt it will have that much impact on the show though inreality. The plots and scrips seem to be lacking and there is not a whole lot an actor can do about it to my knowledge.

I like the way this discussion has evolved - thank you all who have contributed.

Now for my Non-Moderator post. Just a plain-ole fan:

I've said before that I *truly* believe that VDO is striving for a bereft, muddled, depressed Goren who has ups and downs, tics and weight issues, and energy depletion. This is only my opinion, though shared by some. Others feel VDO has let himself go and can't get back to his "game." That's a valid opinion as well.

Does it impact the ratings, as FloridaRN asks? I don't think so. The people that watch the show, do so for different reasons:

- Good stories. Uh, ok, that one is a problem this season. Last season, too.
- Good acting. Well, they changed the cast significantly in the past two years. Strike two.
- Consistent look and feel. Um....gone as well, replaced by loud rock or rap, and stalker cam.

These things, along with being up against runaway hits like House (Idol lead-in or not, House was going to kick CI's butt) and Dancing with the Stars (wha?) are killing the ratings. I don't know anything about the Unit, can't speak to that.

I don't think VDO's looks - graying hair, weight gain, perceived flagging energy - has anything to do with poor ratings. People either like Goren or they find him extremely annoying. I happen to personally think VDO looks far better now than he did in Season 5, and he's been looking pretty good since Brother's Keeper.

AL asks if VDO should be held accountable for maintaining a certain look? I'm not sure. If it's in his contract, of course. Some female stars (like the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders, as an example) cannot change their hair style or color, or gain/lose weight at the risk of being fired (kicked off the squad).

Do those same standards apply to middle-aged Italian-American Method actors? If it's not in the contract, no. The only expectations he fails to meet are the ones we impose upon him. CI-era VDO fans (notice I don't say just CI fans) "fell" for a sexy, dark haired charmer six years ago. Tall, well built, even slender to a degree, light on his feet and with boundless energy that seemed to barely stay contained within his skin. Mysterious, a little dangerous, a little crazy. That character existed for three years. In year four, as Donna Lucy mentions, Bobby Goren grew darker. More brooding. In season five...well, to me that one was the Lost Weekend.

People change. If you want to see the old Bobby Goren, the DVDs are available.

But I have to ask another question. Are there television shows that have been on for X number of years where the lead characters haven't changed? This is a serious question - I don't watch that much television, so I can't comment.

Would we be happy if VDO lost 20 pounds? 30? What then? Have him dye his hair? Get an eye lift? Where does it end?

Where am I going with this? I think it is the same mentality that causes women to get breast implants and tummy tucks and nose jobs and...and...and fill in the blank. We don't like it when we as women are judged like this, why is it alright to judge a man this way? A man who wasn't hired because he was a sex symbol, just a good actor. If a bunch of us think he's sexy, all the better. But that wasn't the original (criminal) intent. If he imbued the character with that quality, it's because...well, if you've seen him act in movies, the man just exudes virility. It's a hard thing to fake or force. But to say, "dude you're not sexy enough for the show anymore - you're too darn pudgy"? Yikes.

I didn't see the issue with his weight in last night's episode and maybe I'm just not being objective. Does he have a paunch? Yeah, but so what? Is he required to do 500 situps a day until he's got a sixpack? Frankly, I didn't like the way Bobby Goren looked earlier this season because he looked tired, and sickly, and depressed. He's finally looking like he's seen the light at the end of the tunnel. That's Bobby Goren, not Vincent D'Onofrio.

It's called acting.

By the way, in Thumbsucker VDO played a middle-aged father. In The Narrows, it looks like he's going to play...a middle-aged father. I think our Romeo (Cholo/Dawson/Gavin/Naked Stranger/Sam Deed et. al) has grown up and gone away. He is, after all, almost 50 and I think he looks fine. Alright, I meant he looks FIIIIIINE. So there.

rowe

I don't think Vincent D'Onofrio's weight, age, hair color or any such thing has affected LOCI's ratings this season. None of these things are relevant to his talents and gifts as an ACTOR. I think LOCI's problems are very nicely summarized by Mod Rowe:


I don't watch that much TV either so I can't comment on whether characters in TV shows that have been on for a while have changed. There is one exception I can think of, "The X-Files" which I used to watch faithfully in its earliest years. However, when I got the impression that Chris Carter was jerking viewers around with more ridiculous and implausible stories, I stopped watching. Did the characters change or were they tampered with by the absurd stories? I don't know, but the feeling I had then about "The X-Files" going wrong is what I'm experiencing now with LOCI. Somehow, somewhere, I got the feeling of being jerked around with all the personal Goren stuff and the bypassing complex crime dramas in favor of gimmicky devices like music intros and stalker cams. I hope that by season's end I can shake this feeling of dread and uncertainty about the show and where Goren is headed. But it has absolutely nothing to do with Vincent D'Onofrio's weight, age, or hair color.

It's very easy to judge somebody when we don't know the situation. We don't know what Mr. D'Onofrio or any of the writers are going through. Until you've done it - you should try to be a little more open minded.

Anyway, I actually stopped in this section because I opened up a myspace page dedicated to VDO - I figured all those other geeky celebs have fan pages why shouldn't a great man like Vincent have one!! So if you are interested in seeing it - check it out and befriend me

http://www.myspace.com/186666816

Very cute, IntentOnGoren. Thank you for sharing the link!

rowe

QUOTE

I've said before that I *truly* believe that VDO is striving for a bereft, muddled, depressed Goren who has ups and downs, tics and weight issues, and energy depletion. This is only my opinion, though shared by some. Others feel VDO has let himself go and can't get back to his "game." That's a valid opinion as well.

This comment by Rowe may be very true for this particular episode. I noticed that in practically every scene Goren is in during last Season (Season 5), where he was at his heaviest, he always had his suit jacket on, buttoned & closed. Even when it was in a situation where most guys would have unbuttoned their jackets. No secret VDO was trying to hide his weight gain as best he could.

This episode seemed to actually HIGHLIGHT Goren's paunch. No attempt at all to hide his gut. It even looked like they had him wearing his pants a little lower. I mean, that close up at the treadmill? He pulls his jacket open almost on purpose. So many instances of this I can't even count them.

Now, it could just be that VDO is more at ease with his weight or that no one thinks anyone will notice. It's just such a different attitude, that maybe it is part of a "Goren is stressed & overeating" character portrayal?

Or am I reading to much into this?

It's probably like you said part of the character being worn down by everything, just like we all would. As far as VDO's comfort with the weight gain, he did that for a movie role, and couple of years back, and since his movie role was over he actually has lost some of the weight, at least it seems that way to me.

I think the weight issue is moot. Who cares if VDO/Goren is heavier? He's still hot.

But if VDO's using the weight he has (intentionally keeping it on for the show or not) then so be it. Personally, I understand anyone in Goren's situation gaining weight. **** I've done it. When my sis was sick 11 years ago I gained 20 pounds and it had nothing to do with overreating...just lack of time to prepare healthier meals and more time sitting around at the hospital. Plus, the last thing on your mind is whether or not you look good.

10-4 that was my point exactly!! Yes, he is one appealing to look either way!!

The weight thing.

I don't know any of the rumours about VDO being alluded to (and deleted from) here but...

My ex stacked on the lbs when his father was dying in hospital. In just a few weeks his physical appearance changed along with his social demeanour. Grief is a very powerful thing.

So...the weight gain and listlessness of the Goren character is completely recognisable to me given his mother's iminent death. I would prefer to think this is a part of VDO's characterisation of Goren. It's possible however that this level of commitment to "method" works better in a cinematic film, than a weekly series where ratings and fickle audiences (and focus groups) dictate life and death. That may be the mistake of the writers, producers or VDO or all of them combined. TV audiences love something that sticks to the formula...venture out, and you're done for. The fact we only get to see bits and pieces at 2 weekly intervals doesn't help either as it makes it harder for viewers to connect the dots.

Of course I do miss the Bobby character of old. But in real life, people age and sometimes get a little or even a lot thicker around the waist. You don't love them less. If Bobby was real, we'd be a pack of ******* for discussing him this way.

As for VDO, I love everything about him. I would argue that his attractiveness has so little to do with whatever weight he's at and everything to do with the charisma he exudes. Think about Gandolfini for a moment...smouldering out of the cover of Vanity Fair...he is easily twice VDO's size but how sexy was that!? Because it's not about the weight people...

So my only concern is that VDO is well and can give us the benefit of his talent for years to come...Bobby or no Bobby. I would prefer a "happy ending" to CI but wherever it goes I look forward to seeing how VDO will take us there.

Nicely put, cynic. And welcome to the board. Be sure to read through the rules and regs and let us know a little bit more about you in the Welcome thread at the top of the page.

Linda

I'm really grateful for all of the thoughtful reactions to my post about D'Onofrio's weight gain, and how it may have affected his ability to realize the Goren character physically.

I remain of the same mind as bwalter. Goren requires more physicality, and D'Onofrio -- as he has with his other parts -- isn't committed to the "truth" of the character if he doesn't get in shape to play him.

BTW, the points about "commitment and "truth" are drawn directly from the rerun of "Vacancy" on the USA Network last night. Lots of of almost reverential dialogue in that one (including Goren lines) about the process of Method acting.

Please let me be clear: Goren can age, and should age. I have no problem at all with D'Onofrio looking less youthful. But he can't be true to Goren's very physical essence with so much additional weight.

I agree with the observations of others in this thread in that I also can't believe that D'Onofrio, a Method actor, isn't very conscious of how his weight gain has changed his character. He may be struggling with it; it may be dismaying to him -- neither would surprise me, but of course none of us knows for sure. Still, he's not simply someone in another line of work who's having a problem with weight gain as he ages: he's an actor playing a part with specific physical requirements.

(And Mod Rowe -- I loved D'Onofrio as the middle-aged father in "Thumbsucker." His weight, his appearance in general, fit the part perfectly. But that character isn't Goren.)

As for the issue of "sex appeal:" I'm sorry I brought that up. It deviated from my main issues about an actor's commitment to a character, and whether LOCI is sustainable if (IMO) so much of the life and energy of Goren is gone. The ratings already speak to that. At least part of the decline -- the smaller part but certainly some part -- surely must reflect less viewer interest in the main draw, as his character has become less alive with all those original, unique, physical details.

And then, last, I'll bring this up: I went to YouTube yesterday for something work-related. While I was there I did a Vincent D'Onofrio search. I've never done that before. If any of you have, you know what happened. A large number of videos popped up, some of which have been viewed 10,000 to 20,000 times or more.

It seems that there's no need to be concerned that D'Onofrio's losing his sex appeal.

AL

But isn't a less physical Goren where the writers are going for him? We get to see his mother and how difficult it is to deal with someone with mental illness and cancer. Her expectations and needs fall all on him. No one to give him a break or helping out. He is literally trying to save her life. We also see him dealing with his brother. His is literally the rock of the family going thru emotional stressors that can break people down. That is how the character is written this year. Isn't a little unrealisitc to excpect him to be the same perky guy who can't sit still and has boundless energy when the writing of the storyline with his family problems dictates that he is being worn down and may be close to breaking? If he didn't gain or loose weight it would be more unrealistic, at least to me. The physical demands of the emotional turmoil he is dealing with will take a toll on the body. He isn't moving like he normally does, not exercising, eating fast food, etc. It's part of being human.

I agree that I like the old Goren better. The sarcastic humor and looking like he may need a ritalin at times. Watching his mind working and putting the esoteric pieces together. I am not wild about the family issues and dragging my hero down but isn't what the writers have done? I just don't see how he can play the "old Goren" this year given the way the writing has gone this year.

Now if they want to wrap up the family stuff at the end of this year and get back to the old Goren/Eames stuff next year I will be a very satisfied viewer.

Peace

I can't decide if Goren is being written "this way" this season to accommodate VDO, or if it is just the absence of Rene Balcer that has put VDO so much in the background.

It's the physical difference that I notice the most. So many scenes this season he has just been walking behind Eames and whomever, kind of like tagging along trying to keep up.

In every scene he is either sitting already, or immediately sits down. I would like to think that this is because of his heght compared to other actors. I think Ross is a little guy that "fits" with Eames in scenes becuase of their height

On the Rocketman episode, Goren and Eames were trailing the PR guy down the stairs, they stopped and VDO seemed not to even be able to put weight on his leg.

On the other hand, he looked so good at the opening of Bogosian's play, maybe it is just for the show.

Actually, Vincent filmed Thumbsucker in 2003, definitely when he was in fighting weight form. He was pretty slim when he played the Dad. As far as his personality in the film, I LOVE bwalter's analogy of the current Goren & CI - "Thumbsucker with a Badge." That is priceless to me!

Even if Vincent became as thin as a rail, he will not regress back to the Goren of Season 1 through 3. He has said as much in interviews about the character. He's chosen to evolve away from the hyper, over the top character from 2001 - 2003.

Look at Season 4. I'm hoping that a healthier, happier, revitalized Bobby Goren (once Mom passes) will revert back to that man, minus the sleepy eyes & 3 day stubble of some episodes. Although I do love the stubble. The Goren of Beast, maybe. Or Stress Position. Or the aria of Semi-Detached?

That man I would welcome into my living room anytime.

Ah, but D'Onofrio's weight gain preceded season 6. What if Goren's story arc was changed because D'Onofrio could no longer physically realize the original Goren character?

Or because he isn't committed enough to the character to lose the necessary weight?

Or because he has tried, and failed -- therefore conceding a permanent loss in the acting versatility that has been D'Onofrio's claim to fame throughout his career? (As Rowe points out, lately he's been playing middle-aged fathers in films.)

I don't know the answers. But to people who say that an emotionally stressed person would look like this, or act this way -- please consider these other possibile origins for the current Goren story line -- as well as the LOCI ratings dip in season 6 (which actually began earlier, before LOCI was pitted against "House.")

AL

Why would they go thru all that trouble?? I don't get how they could go on a story arc like this one just because VDO gained a few pounds. It's show biz so anything is possible but that just seems like reaching for an explanation. To completely change the focus of the show like that..... especially when the ratings weren't that bad last year. I can see them sending him for liposuction first.

Dick wolf stated before last year started he was "going home" more with the characters in the mothership (McCoy's daughter) and CI (Goren's mother). It seemed SVU ratings were higher and they are much more involved in the charactors homelife on that show then the other two shows. Dick Wolf was going for the ratings by copying a formula that worked on SVU. Obvioulsy not as successful on these shows.

Sometimes if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is a duck. The writing, acting and physical appearance of Goren together all makes sense. It flows. I think he is doing a great job of showing someone trying to hold it together while this emotional spiral is going on.

Now do I like this storyline?? No. Definatley and emphatically NO! I think Rita Moreno did a fantastic job but I didn't need to see that. I like it better knowing bits and pieces about the characters. I don't want to go home with them. I watch the show because I like whodunit's and Goren and Eames were likable characters. I knew a little about them but I really want to watch them solve crimes, I don't need to see Peyton Place. I like hearing about Eames nephew but don't need to meet him. The slow unfolding of what makes them tick is fun.

Maybe the problems with Goren are more the writing, focus and story arc this year rather than VDO not playing Goren the way we would like. I think he is playing what's written.

Look! John Travolta had a sex change and is now an plump mother to a Baltimore teen.



Just an alternative suggestion to those who are seeing a gut on VDO when his face and the pictures from the Radio Days opening aren't necessarily supporting that assessment. Could it maybe be a "fat suit"?

The picture below is from Silencer.



Rowe and Peachy, if you think this is too over the top, please delete or move it from the thread. I'm just tired with reading about the whole weight issue.

Linda

Glad you brought up the issue of fat suits. Would have been good if VDO had used one for his Orson Welles excursions, also his Pooh Bear, rather than packing on the real thing. I really have always wondered why he didn't. Realism? He didn't cut off his nose to play PoohB. Anyway, the suits are much improved since the days of Full Metal jacket (see how cute Johnnie T looks?). Sure beats waddling to the wrap party, too, but past the cosmetic issue, there is the health thing.

[quote name='stefanl' date='May 8 2007, 05:41 AM' post='2040806']

Just an alternative suggestion to those who are seeing a gut on VDO when his face and the pictures from the Radio Days opening aren't necessarily supporting that assessment. Could it maybe be a "fat suit"?


I do not think that it is a fat suit. VDO is a "method actor" . He gets into his roles. It is his face that looks puffy and his shoulders look huge. Untucked and unbuttoned is a bad sign. I did think in "The War at Home" when he was wearing that plaid shirt that his stomach was padded, however in other scenes he looked OK.

I think that VDO is a one of a kind actor, and handsome man no matter what his weight. I know as it was stated that the recent weight he gained was for a movie. For most of us losing the weight after gaining it for any reason isn't easy. With his tight work schedule with LOCI (and I think he did another movie after that) it's no wonder that it takes longer for him to lose it. I think that since he gained the intial weight, he has actually lost some. I think this year it is more the haggard look, because of all his personal and family issues coming to light.(Goren not VDO). Also that in Full Metal Jacket I read in his bio that he gained a record making 70 pounds(or something close to) for that roll!!

In either case he is more than ok to look at in my book. He could be ripped like no tomorrow and if he couldn't act or make the character of Goren so fascinating I wouldn't even stop to look at the show.

Oh for godssakes. The man has just gotten fat. He's the plump and happy raisin. No excuses. He's not wildly overweight, like Welles, or morbidly obese and disfigured, like Brando. He is just 30 pounds or so above his upper limit. He can't carry the weight he has put on - look at the stills from Staten Island, for example. It's not a good look. It's double chin and paunch, not age or medication, just food. He's only 47. It doesn't take two personal trainers and a 700-calorie-a-day diet to shed the weight in that league. If he can't cut into a wheel of cheese, then he shouldn't be eating it.

The "He is so cute , and is so adorable however he looks" line may work for some of you. Doesn't work for me aesthetically, and it sure doesn't work for him health-wise. Fat children suffer from a similar coochy-coo indulgence. Not doing them - or VDO - any favours by pudding-love. You want him dead or disabled by stroke or diabetes or heart failure? I sure don't. Now that I've come to love him, I want to see D'Onofrio around and working for a long, long , long time.

For me VDO is one of the best actor I've never seen, He plays so good, He can plays so much differences personnalities ! I love this guy !! And he is so ... HOT ... Have I said that ? I thinks he is the hearth of CI, without him the tv show is nothing ... There are the others characters but Goren (and Vincent) are special things who do the difference

Sorry for my English I'm french ...

With all due respect to our board members, I'd really like to see this discussion end at some point. Whether he is overweight or not, or whether that extra weight affects his health, is really not a subject for the board. This thread is about VDO as an actor and about the character Robert Goren. Surely there is something else of interest beyond how many twinkies he had for lunch.

Please, can we change topics here?

rowe

THANK YOU! I really am getting tired of seeing this topic constantly discussed myself. Would you like somebody constantly discussing your weight and how unhealthy you look? As fans we should be respectful and understanding. We have no idea what's going on in his life and we shouldn't judge. You can have your opinion but there's really no reason to continue to discuss it. Please find something new to talk about for his sake.

Amen to that!

I agree.