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Bride2Bee
I posted this elsewhere...I'm adjusting to include possibly spoilers that I know I've read in various places:

Jessica may be an entity that has the power to "jump" from host-to-host...like a separate "hero" all together that we think of as "Jessica" right now only because she/he/it was attached to Niki for the first season. If that were the case then it could be attached to Nathan currently...and he could call it whatever he wants/whatever it tells him it's name is. I see this as unlikely, but it is one theory that would explain how "Jessica" is possessing Nathan right now and showed him burnt Peter/Nathan in the mirror. This could also mean that Nathan is killing the elders with help from the entity, however I personally think that is being done by an ancient character....possibly Kenzei if he is indeed the 1000 year old man that spoilers talk about. I call this the "Entity Theory".

Or Nathan could have seen Peter, the way he saw him last, in the mirror out of guilt. This guilt could be due to the fact that Peter was the upstanding, honest man that Nathan wasn't (until it was too late to save Peter) and he knows/feels that Peter is dead now because of him, and he doesn't deserve to be dead. This could be supported by Nathan's actions of maintaining Peter's apartement (whether he is currently living there or not) so Peter can have it all when he gets home, even if he knows/thinks that Peter will never return. This is "Guilt Theory 1".

This guilt could also derive from something more sinister. Perhaps Nathan could have saved Peter somehow before/during/after the explosion but out of fear/greed chose to save himself only. I don't have any proof of this at all, however I like this theory because it would add tension to the Nathan-Peter relationship when/if Peter remembers who he is and returns home. The whole "what happened in the sky at the explosion" could be dealt with on future flashback episodes (in the 4 months ago episode). This would also explain the theories that I have read that say there is a riff between the two brothers. This is "Guilt Theory 2".

Overall I think the most likely is guilt theory 1, but I think guilt theory 2 would be interesting. Entity theory might prove to just be too confusing for the average viewer (average viewer meaning those people that don't come on the boards and don't read the graphic novels). Any one of the "Nathan's Reflection" theories posted here would support Nathan wanting to go after the original 14 (for reasons such as greed, power, revenge, etc). And as a side note, I still think Nathan is a congressman (but a lousy, drunk one) and I think that he and his mother were in Peter's apartement because she wanted to pack up his stuff and get rid of the place (because she thinks he's dead and never coming back) and Nathan didn't want to (either because he knows/thinks Peter may come back or just as a way of holding on to his brother).

Edit to add: If Kane is Kenzei (as speculated) and Kane is an original, I think he would be the murderer
Nick43
QUOTE (Bride2Bee @ Sep 25 2007, 11:18 AM) *
I posted this elsewhere...I'm adjusting to include possibly spoilers that I know I've read in various places:

Jessica may be an entity that has the power to "jump" from host-to-host...like a separate "hero" all together that we think of as "Jessica" right now only because she/he/it was attached to Niki for the first season. If that were the case then it could be attached to Nathan currently...and he could call it whatever he wants/whatever it tells him it's name is. I see this as unlikely, but it is one theory that would explain how "Jessica" is possessing Nathan right now and showed him burnt Peter/Nathan in the mirror. This could also mean that Nathan is killing the elders with help from the entity, however I personally think that is being done by an ancient character....possibly Kenzei if he is indeed the 1000 year old man that spoilers talk about. I call this the "Entity Theory".

Or Nathan could have seen Peter, the way he saw him last, in the mirror out of guilt. This guilt could be due to the fact that Peter was the upstanding, honest man that Nathan wasn't (until it was too late to save Peter) and he knows/feels that Peter is dead now because of him, and he doesn't deserve to be dead. This could be supported by Nathan's actions of maintaining Peter's apartement (whether he is currently living there or not) so Peter can have it all when he gets home, even if he knows/thinks that Peter will never return. This is "Guilt Theory 1".

This guilt could also derive from something more sinister. Perhaps Nathan could have saved Peter somehow before/during/after the explosion but out of fear/greed chose to save himself only. I don't have any proof of this at all, however I like this theory because it would add tension to the Nathan-Peter relationship when/if Peter remembers who he is and returns home. The whole "what happened in the sky at the explosion" could be dealt with on future flashback episodes (in the 4 months ago episode). This would also explain the theories that I have read that say there is a riff between the two brothers. This is "Guilt Theory 2".

Overall I think the most likely is guilt theory 1, but I think guilt theory 2 would be interesting. Entity theory might prove to just be too confusing for the average viewer (average viewer meaning those people that don't come on the boards and don't read the graphic novels). Any one of the "Nathan's Reflection" theories posted here would support Nathan wanting to go after the original 14 (for reasons such as greed, power, revenge, etc). And as a side note, I still think Nathan is a congressman (but a lousy, drunk one) and I think that he and his mother were in Peter's apartement because she wanted to pack up his stuff and get rid of the place (because she thinks he's dead and never coming back) and Nathan didn't want to (either because he knows/thinks Peter may come back or just as a way of holding on to his brother).

Edit to add: If Kane is Kenzei (as speculated) and Kane is an original, I think he would be the murderer
Nathan is the killer like others have posted.He bumped into Ando out on the street,planted the photo in the newspaper Ando was holding.His mom was in the apartment when he got there giving him plenty of time to post the pic on the wall outside. He called his mom "evil" thats a very strong word to use on your mom,unless you have gone over the edge.Hiro's father knew who he was.Nathan flew away before he hit the ground.The boogieman and the killer are two different people/things. Hiro becomes Kenzei.Kane will be some kinda of immortal or something but I dont think hes the boogieman either. Just theory.
Bride2Bee
QUOTE (Im a Hero @ Sep 25 2007, 11:44 AM) *
The boogieman and the killer are two different people/things. Hiro becomes Kenzei.Kane will be some kinda of immortal or something but I dont think hes the boogieman either. Just theory.

The boogeyman is Sylar. The very bad guy that can see Molly is the "worse than the boogeyman". I don't think Nathan is the murderer...it's too easy to catch and too early. Hiro might do the "noble" things that the hero Kenzei is now noted for (therefore he is his own hero...that's deep) but the man that calls himself "Kenzei" in episode one (that's not his real name....remember he said he made it up so people would be afraid to go against him....could someone refresh my memory on why he chose that name?) is going to be Kane. He will be over 1000 years old (hence he probably has gone by many names and lived in many places....he could be the beginning common link between everyone).

I still think that Kenzei/Kane will be the murderer (or the person resonsible for ordering the murders). If he does the murders himself them I'm not sure how his powers fit in (he's supposed to be able to control insects no?). However he could just be working with someone (possibly Nathan) and telling him who to kill. Maybe Kenzei/Kane is the origin of the "original 12/14" and he doesn't like what they've done with it?
ryanjbass
QUOTE (Im a Hero @ Sep 25 2007, 12:44 PM) *
He called his mom "evil" thats a very strong word to use on your mom,unless you have gone over the edge.



He called his mom evil because she tried to blow up New York, using her own son no less! I'd call my mother an evil ***** if she did that! Tim Kring has done something amazing here: in season one, Kring got everyone to root for Nathan to finally show his true colors and save the day. Now, one ep into season two and Kring's got everyone chomping at the bit to say he's the wolf in sheep's clothing!? Brilliant!! I say that we should take last season to heart and give Nathan the benefit of the doubt.
Terastas
I think we can rule out Jessica being part of the puzzle. I think Nicky only originally exhibited superhuman strength when possessed by Jessica because Jessica's power was strength and Nicky was a medium. It was only when the two of them shared a common goal that they really became unified and Nicky was able to fight with Jessica's strength.

What I'm guessing happened with the Petrelli brothers is that, since Peter had copied Claire's regeneration power, they decided that neither brother would have to sacrifice himself if Nathan let go of Peter once they were out of range and flew in the opposite direction. Considering how high up and how far away they would have had to go in order to avoid any nuclear fallout, Nathan most likely lost sight of him after the explosion.

In other words, he wouldn't really know what happened to Peter afterwards, but the last time he would have been able to see Peter would have been right before he exploded.

He also knows his mother was in on the plot to set off the bomb. If she knew Peter was still alive, she might try to locate him and take him back to New York to set him off again. It's in Nathan's best interest to keep Peter and Mrs. Petrelli away from each other for as long as possible, and the easiest way to do that is to insist that Peter is dead.

Assuming the Haitian is on Nathan's side and is against the bomb, it might also explain why Peter has amnesia. Peter found out their mother was in on the plot during a dream sequence, so Nathan wouldn't have known Peter knew not to trust her. It's unlikely, but not impossible that Nathan might have arranged for Peter to forget everything to keep him from looking for her as well.
COEWRampGal
I don't know if anyone noticed, but I believe Nathan is wearing the very same necklace that was seen around Peter's neck in the container. Something is up with that for sure. In the premiere episode you can see that Nathan is wearing something around his neck, but it looks like he is keeping the symbol hidden.

I have little doubt as to the identity of Mr. Nakamura's murderer. It was a man with a small frame and a shortened left thumb (hmm...)

ote name='Terastas' date='Sep 29 2007, 03:40 PM' post='2530698']
I think we can rule out Jessica being part of the puzzle. I think Nicky only originally exhibited superhuman strength when possessed by Jessica because Jessica's power was strength and Nicky was a medium. It was only when the two of them shared a common goal that they really became unified and Nicky was able to fight with Jessica's strength.

What I'm guessing happened with the Petrelli brothers is that, since Peter had copied Claire's regeneration power, they decided that neither brother would have to sacrifice himself if Nathan let go of Peter once they were out of range and flew in the opposite direction. Considering how high up and how far away they would have had to go in order to avoid any nuclear fallout, Nathan most likely lost sight of him after the explosion.

In other words, he wouldn't really know what happened to Peter afterwards, but the last time he would have been able to see Peter would have been right before he exploded.

He also knows his mother was in on the plot to set off the bomb. If she knew Peter was still alive, she might try to locate him and take him back to New York to set him off again. It's in Nathan's best interest to keep Peter and Mrs. Petrelli away from each other for as long as possible, and the easiest way to do that is to insist that Peter is dead.

Assuming the Haitian is on Nathan's side and is against the bomb, it might also explain why Peter has amnesia. Peter found out their mother was in on the plot during a dream sequence, so Nathan wouldn't have known Peter knew not to trust her. It's unlikely, but not impossible that Nathan might have arranged for Peter to forget everything to keep him from looking for her as well.
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jj_po8
QUOTE (Bride2Bee @ Sep 25 2007, 12:52 PM) *
I still think that Kenzei/Kane will be the murderer (or the person resonsible for ordering the murders). If he does the murders himself them I'm not sure how his powers fit in (he's supposed to be able to control insects no?). However he could just be working with someone (possibly Nathan) and telling him who to kill. Maybe Kenzei/Kane is the origin of the "original 12/14" and he doesn't like what they've done with it?

If so then perhaps kenzei/kane is directing Sylar's movements as he is considered a parasite...


Just a side note, if anyone should be suffering from nikki/jess syndrome it should be pete, hence the memory loss, disorientation in the container

what if Nate's prolonged contact with Lindermann, has some residual healing effect???

also in season 1 when Nate lands in the desert outside the diner, he's sliding on gravel, with no apparent wear or tear on bare feet???
flying at super-sonic speeds bare-skinned...hmmm the wind sheer would probably leave him faceless (or seriously leathery), without some form of impervious skin.

Maybe the pivotal mirror scene is simply symbolic of his self-guilt and that the man he once was was nuked... ph34r.gif
jj_po8
a few more things to note:

The killer must be someone familiar with the meaning of the symbol drawn over someone in a photograph.
Perhaps the 1000yr old man uses this as a death warning... symbol on the sword seems to be the oldest marking, is there a connection here???

notice that Mrs P and Mr N are standing in the same photo in front of the '0' on top of the building...
the killer must have been in the very same photo, and has torn it in pieces
Bride2Bee
QUOTE (jj_po8 @ Sep 30 2007, 11:59 AM) *
Just a side note, if anyone should be suffering from nikki/jess syndrome it should be pete, hence the memory loss, disorientation in the container

Peter got his memory loss for Elle, the new character played by Kristen Bell (appearing episode 5 I believe). Her power has something to do with electricity (so that's where he got that power from too) and Bell has said in interviews that she has something to do with Peter's disappearance/amnesia and it will all be revealed later.

If Niki was just a medium to Jessica's powers then how did Peter get superstrength? When was he in contact with Jess/Niki???
jj_po8
QUOTE (Bride2Bee @ Oct 2 2007, 09:16 AM) *
If Niki was just a medium to Jessica's powers then how did Peter get superstrength? When was he in contact with Jess/Niki???


The Last ep season1, when Pete fights Sylar, Nikki gets close enough to Pete for a transfer, and he gets POWERFUL biggrin.gif
jj_po8
This same time Nikki and Jess have consolidated personas
Bride2Bee
QUOTE (jj_po8 @ Oct 3 2007, 07:55 AM) *
The Last ep season1, when Pete fights Sylar, Nikki gets close enough to Pete for a transfer, and he gets POWERFUL biggrin.gif

Oh ya, I forgot. I could only remember when he had contact in the future...and clearly that couldn't give him strength because it hasn't happened yet! Thanks.
hurley_matt
well i think that peter was with the hatian and elle for the 4 months (or some time leading to it) and thats y his memory is eased... mabey to protect ppl i dont know why but the haitian did it
SazzleB
Did it seem to anyone that the killer when they were in the interview room with Angela Petrelli was invisible? Just an idea
geotank
I was thinking it was more of a mental attack, and to be honest the scratches on her face were most likly from "defensive" wounds. She appeared to be trying to defend herself but the scratching and clawing was only hitting herself. Kind of like when a bee or wasp circles your head and you almost hit yourself trying to thwack it.
Bride2Bee
QUOTE (SazzleB @ Oct 4 2007, 03:16 AM) *
Did it seem to anyone that the killer when they were in the interview room with Angela Petrelli was invisible? Just an idea

I was thinking that too...although it could also have been a mental attack.

Either way, I think it's safe to say that it is not Nathan that is the killer. But what if Nathan like "leads" the killer to these people...purposely or not. Think about it. The only time that Nathan was not present when the killer apparently was, was on the roof with Nakamura. All other times (the photos, and now Nathan's mom's attack) he was present. What if the killer is just using him sometimes to track down some of the original 12....just a thought. I doubt it's a coincidence that Nathan is usually present, but I still don't think he's involved.
Terastas
The impression I got from the interview was that Mrs. Petrelli was mentally assaulted as well. The killer was able to get at Mr. Nakamura because he was waiting right on a balcony for him, but she was in the police precinct. The impression I got was that she was attacked by the same person that is haunting Molly.

It doesn't make sense for the killer to have attacked Mr. Nakamura personally if he could have just assaulted him mentally, so I'm starting to think there may be more than one person involved in the killings.

Regarding the Godsend, Ando explained to Matt Parkman that it more or less means "one with power." It's more or less a calling card from anyone with a gift, so I don't think the Godsend specifically means someone has been marked for death. Mr. Nakamura and Mrs. Petrelli both "did something horrible" though, so I think the marking for death was derived from the photograph of Nakamura and Petrelli together, and the symbol just indicates that it's a message from one of their own.

As Mrs. Petrelli said, it was also the logo of her husband's law firm. It wouldn't be very good marketing for a law firm to use a logo that means "I'm going to kill you." wink.gif
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