Let's put this dispute to rest once and for all....

I have seen this stated over and over and over in different threads - EJ raped Sami at gunpoint.

My recollection is that there was no gun put to Sami's head during this scene.

No need to debate whether it was a rape or indecent proposal.

Would someone kindly post the clip showing this gun pointed at Sami during the scene.

EJ forced Sami to get him through the roadblock at gunpoint. He did not force her to do anything else. I don't even think the gun was still in his hand after the roadblock. In any case, he did not threaten to use it on her or hurt her in any way after she got him through the roadblock.

I think there is a clip on youtube of the whole crazy 12/29 scene.

all anyone has to do is go to youtube and watch it from there. i did have it downloaded onto my computer but i had to delete it because i was running out of free space. i can vouch for ej on this one though because i watched that episode enough. he did not have a gun to her head, or anywhere near pointed at her person after they were parked.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IX3BDyuX2tY


here is the link, go and watch it from there.
that takes you to part two of that day, but from there you can see part one and three.

The gun was used to get through the police roadblock & then didn't appear again until they were going into the cabin to get the beam off Lucas. The scenes of EJ & Sami in car...the gun was no where to be seen.

I agree with Power. by the time it got to them working out the terms of their deal the gun was no longer in play.
And Sami obviously wasn't too scared of him since she slapped him. If you have a gun pointed at you are you gonna hit your attacker.... no. But I do take in to consideration this was Sami and she isn't too logical.
I can't post links but if someone who can please post the link to the scene and then there will be no argument.

Even though ITA that Elvis raped Sami, he did not point the gun to her head. However, he did have a gun and he did threaten her and forced her through the roadblock with it. The point is, we did not see the intire rape scene (thank gawd) and he could have pointed the gun at her at anytime - he had it in his hands and I am sure she was scared he could use it. All you have to do was look at her face to know she was scared and didn't want that slime to touch her - she was worried about saving Lucas's life...

ITA AZ.

ICAM!




as the OP said we won't go into what we think it was or was not or what we think about that scene or people in it.
because i could write a huge post about it LOL
but to the OP's question, he did NOT have a gun pointed at her head. he did use a gun to get through the roadblock but nothing more.

Nope. No gun at her head during the proposal (I refuse to say "rape" even in quotes cuz it wasn't).

Sami was free to go.

IA with SKOT. He used the gun to get through the roadblock, and it wasn't seen again after that. And the fact that she slapped him in his face shows that she wasn't scared of him. I know I wouldn't slap a man that had a gun.

Thank you!

So, whoever keeps saying that Sami was raped at gunpoint could y'all please stop saying it as if it were fact.

I get what you are saying azgirlygirl.
But when you say that- it is an assumption that the gun was involved at the moment.
The gun could have been completely out of the way
Who knows.

The point is when I hear that the act happened at gunpoint as if it is A FACT - I think that is wrong.
The clip posted above show that.


.

beachlady: I wasn't trying to get into any kind of debate about that night, I was simply trying to get my point across about what I saw and that we (the audiance) did not see the whole scene.. This thread is about the night Sami was raped and weather or not Elvis pointed a gun at Sami - I answered.

caligirl: Thanks for seeing my point - and you said it, "who knows..."

And for the record: I never once said Elvis held a gun to her head while he raped her. And I agree saying it is FACT is not right cuz honestly we do not know...

I agree CaliTexGal and I think it influences the opinion of new viewers when people creatively interpret what happened based on their own assumption about what actually happened.

Truth is, none of us know what happened and that very fact leaves things wide open for the writers to fix their mistake. I'm sorry but a disgusted facial impression is not evidence that any crime took place.

What IF EJ was being a jerk but then when he started to kiss her, he had an attack of conscience and stopped and told her he couldn't go through with it and told her again to get out of the car? What if Sami then turned on the seduction as we know she is capable of doing and went through with it anyway with no reason to believe there was any deal in place but, in her twisted mind, seducing him might get him to help her. I don't want them to turn that scene into anything romantic EVER but I don't mind if they show EJ pushing Sami away and taking the deal off the table and just telling her to get out of the car again. If she seduced him, he probably wouldn't have the integrity or strength to push her away a second time because the man was in love with her. If she turned on the power of Sami manipulation, she could have made him believe she was into it and then afterwards, she spits in his face basically and he realizes that she only did it in a last desperate hope that he'd change his mind about the deal after he saw how far she'd go. Hurt but impressed by her powers of manipulation, EJ decides to help her and saves Lucas.

Bottom line is, there is a gap that could be filled creatively by the writers to completely change the reality of what happened in the car and quite frankly, my little scenario is far more true to the character of Sami than anything we've seen of Sami in the past year.

No he didnt force her at gunpoint, but he made her have sex with him against her will. She didnt want to have sex with him. Sure, it wasnt a violent act, but he used the fact that the man she loved was dying in order to have his way with her. That is rape to me. Which is why I can never get behind these 2 as a couple.

i know you don't want to talk about if it wasn't rape or not but i have to say this. if it was rape then why has she been so willing to go around him, hang out with him alone, let him in her apartment, ride in vehicles with him, kiss him....ect....if it was rape. you can't tell me that it has all been from fear because we all know that it hasn't been. finally this week she admits to having feelings for him, so, you can't convince me that it was rape that night. twice in two seperate places i have seen it to be called an arrangment between the two. once on here and then on wikipedia it has been called that, so, that itself tells me that it wasn't rape. she agreed to sleep with him, and he gave her the choice....you sleep with me and i save lucas, or you don't and i don't save lucas, you can get out of the car and good luck on finding someone else to come down this road in this snow and help you.

am i missing anything?

ICAM! great post!
we didn't see everything, so everyone can make up whatever they want about that night, and i agree a facial expression means nothing without more to back it up.

That is the way I saw it .
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IX3BDyuX2tY

okay i am all about reading and seeing facts, so, here is my proof about what i have read supporting my thoughts on what happened that night wasn't rape.


this is what it says here on the nbc site about that night.....


Once Sami learned that EJ was Stefano’s son and up to no good, she agreed to help police capture him. Sami found herself, again, in the arms of Lucas and the two eventually married. EJ’s desire for Sami was still clearly in the picture and escalated while Sami and Lucas were on a romantic wilderness trip. Lucas was injured when a beam fell on his legs and EJ agreed to save Lucas only if Sami agrees to let EJ have his way with her. Sami reluctantly had sex with EJ and helped him escape to Mexico, after he was wanted in connection with the shooting of John Black. Despite Sami’s attempt to turn over a new leaf, EJ returned and pressed her for information on police activities, and she was pulled into another web of deception, trying to prevent him from learning she was pregnant.


it doesn't say he raped her...it says she reluctantly had sex with him.


okay here is what it says on wikipedia.....



A further obstacle is placed between EJ and Sami when Sami finds out that EJ has been sleeping with Kate Roberts and that he has been hiding his true identity as a DiMera since he came to town. Following the breakup, EJ makes some horrible decisions that end up hurting Sami, and one such mistake happens on December 29, 2006. In the course of the story, Sami and Lucas end up in a cabin in the woods. A ceiling beam falls on Lucas, and Sami leaves the cabin to go look for help. When Sami reaches the main road, she foolishly jumps into the first car that passes by. The driver is EJ, who needs her help getting through a police roadblock. He forces her at gunpoint to get him through the roadblock and then wants Sami to leave so that he can escape to Mexico. She refuses to get out of the car and pleads for his help in saving Lucas’ life, saying that she will do anything to get him to help her. EJ agrees on one condition — Sami has to have sex with him. Sami reluctantly agrees to his terms, and EJ holds up his end of the bargain and saves Lucas' life. EJ later states that his motivation for making the indecent proposal to Sami was in order to get her pregnant so that stem cells from the baby could be used to save his father's life


again it say reluctantly....not rape.

i am not trying to cause an argument but just get people to understand why i don't think it was rape and why i believe that in other places it has been said that it isn't rape.

Maybe because rape thrown around too much in soaps, most of the time, if they use the word rape its a violent act. This wasnt a violent act, agreed. But you said it, she RELUCTANTLY had sex with him...meaning she was pretty much blackmailed to give herself to him and she was crying and screaming the whole time...and EJ used the fact that Lucas was dying in order to satisfy his selfish, perverted wants and needs. That is RAPE, at least to me anyways.

I respect your opinion, even though I don't agree with it.
And I was trying to avoid the rape/not rape issue only because there are plenty of places on this board to debate it.

My issue is that I have seen posts in numerous threads about how horrible EJ is and one of the many reasons he is so horrible is that he raped Sami at gunpoint.
Vent and rant and rave about EJ all anyone wants to - but it bothers me when I see something taken as fact, when it really is not a fact at all.

ita

I bet if it was Lucas who did that to Sami, all the EJami fans would be crying rape. Im just saying, some people should just admit what EJ did was wrong and move on.

I think the confusion is that there is a time later on when she states something like...

you held a gun to my head and you raped me.

She meant it as 2 separate events -
you raped me.
you held a gun to my head to make sure I helped you through a roadblock.

Yep, we all see things from different angles, don't we.

Reading through anti-Lucas and anti-EJ threads, seeing the different views of the same scene...
I wonder if we are even watching the same show!

I know he didnt rape her at gunpoint, and I dont know where that got started, but he didnt have to. He knew she would have sex with him because he knew how much she loved Lucas...enough to sleep with a man she thought was complete scum to save his life.

The fact that he raped her isnt the only reason people hate EJ. I dont really hate EJ, I just hate EJ with Sami. I dont like it when characters are so obsessed with one person that they go to extreme lengths to get them...I think EJ needs to go back to the charming, mysterious, single, independent man he was when he first arrived. Instead he is whipped over Sami.

some would i do agree with you on that. i wouldn't because i know lucas wouldn't do that. my liking ejami doesn't take away from me liking lucas. i think that lucas is a great character and i enjoy watching him.
however, i still dont think that ej raped her. it was an agreement, reluctant yes, but an agreement nontheless. she did it, reluctnly yes, but she did it becasue she knew that it was the only way to save lucas.

Yeah it was an agreement, but a disgusting, pathetic agreement on EJ's part to get what he wanted. And the fact that any man would make a woman have sex with him or the girls fiance would die, doesnt give her much of a choice, is no man to me. What, EJ cant get a girl on his own, he has to force sex on her? Would she have slept with EJ if Lucas wasnt in danger? No, which tells me the sex didnt have to happen, but it did and she was crying the whole time wishing she was somewhere else, she was scared and hurt...that is rape to me.

Yes, when Sami said "He raped me at gunpoint" she was indeed lying. Nothing new though. We know that is what Sami does best is lie.

i have to say that this is one subject where everyone has valid points and arguements and we can all either be right or wrong.

i will only say that ej should of never asked for sex in exchange to help save lucas, but i will never believe it was more than an indecent proposal. and that is all i will say because we have a debate thread for this.
and no i won't move on till it is resolved and until then i will keep believing what i saw on that night and keep letting TPTB know what i think about how they screw that whole scene up.
and no if this was lucas and not ej i would still say no to it if it played out the way i saw the scene.

i agree we all see and believe different things, that is why this subject has been beat to death over and over again

i never said you were getting into a debate, otherwise i would said you were so please don't assume something i didn't say i was making the point that if everyone throws in yes it was rape, no it wasn't rape then this thread would turn into a debate and not focusing on whether a gun was used or not.
and i was just stating my point as well without stating that i dont believe it was rape.
i was not pointing any fingers or accusing anyone of starting a debate.
as for anyone saying that you said that ej held a gun to her head i dont' know anything about that.

I agree with this and remember when Sami said it. He did not hold the gun to her head during the rape. I think that statement by Sami was ment as 2 seprate instances 1 he held a gun to her head that night and 2 he raped her that night.

as others have said, the gun was no longer pointed at her in this scene. The fact that she said to him...'how will I know if I do this thing that you will help Lucas and EJ responded that she didn't know. It was up to her.......which basically means he'd have left her there, outside on the road, but it would mean he would definitely not save Lucas........just that proposition alone tells me there is no gun. nor do we see a gun at this point.

that's not nice! would all the Lumi's stauntly defend it as not rape then, if the roles were reversed


i admit i wouldnt defend Lucas if that were the case- but i wouldn't use it as my main arguement why they shouldnt be together- and i certainly wouldn't say he did rape her if there were any doubt...




y'know there are some Ejami fans that think it was rape (im not one of them), and most ejami's have stated that even tho it wasnt rape it was still wrong of EJ to ask of Sami...


anyway- Sami was not raped, and most definately not raped at gunpoint by EJ
Sami can run around screaming rape at the top of her lungs and it still won't be true-
we have proof from the scenes we were shown that Sami agreed to his terms and met them- and the only person forcing was Sami, making herself to do it...
it's a fact for now... seeing as there's no evidence to prove otherwise-
speculation as to what she felt or what may have happenend "offscreen" is not an issue
we as viewers have no way of proving either

Sorry but IMHO Sami feels raped and she did not want the act to happen. EJ had a gun in the car that he had used earlier that night to get his way. Sami was under durress and felt there was no other choice. Sami feels violated and that is how I base my opinion. The look on Samis face when EJ was touching her was the look of a woman who loathed and abhored what was being done to her.

EJ apologized to Sami for raping her and I believe it was sincere. The rapist and victim call it rape and that is what I saw on my screen.

ALL JMHO of course!!

I quoted and replied, but my response wouldn't show, so I am now trying this 'fastreply' option!

It was said previously that some 'facts' were found on the NBC and wikipedia sites which say that Sami 'reluctantly' had sex with EJ, but how the word rape was never used, implying that no rape happened, or it would say so on those sites.

Here is my response to that.

Wikipedia is not a site I use for fact-finding, since users enter that information, and anyone could have typed that stuff up.

NBC would have the PR department put the spin on the rape, sugar-coating it since they now realize how wrong they were to write EJ into the 'rapist' corner the way they did.


Here are my facts:

On May 18th, EJ admitted to raping Sami. He acknowledged that to extort sex in exchange for saving Lucas was rape. He said that what he did was wrong and apologized. They both said that he raped her on that day when he was in New Orleans ambushing Lumi on their honeymoon...this should not even be up for debate anymore. EJ raped Sami.

Here is the archive link from Dustin's site with that episode transcript:

http://www.soapoperafan.com/days/2007summaries/may3.html

But, in response to Calitexgirl - I never thought he used a gun to rape her, and I don't recall hearing the 'raped at gunpoint line', either. I must have heard it and simply dismissed it as hearing her say something she shouldn't have said - you know, like thinking she read her lines wrong or something.
I wouldn't have put much weight in hearing that, since I don't recall seeing the gun after the roadblock scene.

Sami: [Laughing] You -- you are -- you are too much.

E.J.: I made you laugh. I haven't done that in a while.

Sami: It's not a compliment. E.J., On what planet are you living that you think you and I could ever start over?

E.J.: I don't know. I could think of a few.

Sami: You want to just start over. That sounds great E.J. Good idea, E.J. You must me to just forget that you threatened me, that you risked the life of my unborn child, and humiliated the man that I love? Let's just forget about it all. Not in this lifetime.

E.J.: I know that I went too far. I'm not trying to minimize what I did.

Sami: That's exactly what you are trying to do. You can't even accept -- you can't even admit that you forced yourself on me, that you made me trade sex for Lucas' life.

E.J.: Please, Samantha. You have no idea how deeply I regret that.

Sami: You're right. I don't, because you haven't shown one shred of remorse for it. You just keep talking about -- I don't know -- planting the DiMera seed. You just can't wait to spread your evil to the next generation. Just like these. Of you and your creepy, twisted family?

[Spits] 'Cause you know what? If you had to do it over... I know that you would rape me again in a heartbeat.

E.J.: Look, Samantha, you have every reason in the world to despise me.

Sami: And I don't even need your permission.

E.J.: What I did was... horrible...and it was wrong. And I'm not going to insult you anymore by making excuses.

Sami: Because there aren't any.

E.J.: But I'm not a monster. I'm not some kind of sociopath.

Sami: Well, then you must be an excellent actor.

E.J.: Would you like to know what I am? I'll tell you what I am. I'm spoiled, and I'm very demanding, and I'm willful, but that's growing up here. I mean, I grew up here like a prince. I was the heir to the DiMera legacy. I had everything -- teachers, nurses, tutors at my beck and call.

Sami: Whatever E.J. Wants, E.J. Gets.

E.J.: Basically, yes. I mean, I grew up -- from when I could walk, I was taught that Galileo was wrong -- that I was the center of the universe. I was the master of everything that I surveyed -- every single thing -- and nobody said no to me. Nobody from the lowliest servant to my teacher ever dared say no to me. And then... and then you did.

Sami: It's too bad you didn't listen. And you're still not listening to me. 'Cause you know what? E.J., You asking me to forgive and forget what you did... feels like you raping me all over again.

E.J.: Look, I'm not asking for your forgiveness. I'm asking you, please, for the chance to earn it.

Sami: This is just another one of your mind games. You don't deserve a second chance.

E.J.: No, no, but you do, Samantha. You do. Think about how much you hating me has hurt you.

Sami: Hating you keeps me safe, keeps me strong, and keeps me alive.

E.J.: And loving you, for me -- Samantha, I never experienced life until I loved you.

Sami: You don't know what -- E.J., If you -- if you really love me, then you'll give me what I want.

E.J.: Sure. Okay. Say the word -- that you want me to go, pack my bags. You won't see or hear from me again.

Sami: That is all I want -- for you to disappear.

E.J.: Samantha... I know that you don't really mean that.

Sami: You -- you are such a *******! This isn't about me. This is about you. You don't really love me. You just want to possess me. The same slimy leopard with the same spots. Celeste was right about you. There is only one way to get rid of you.

E.J.: No.

E.J.: You tried that once, Samantha. You tried to kill me. You couldn't do it.

Sami: That's right. So the ball is in your court. So, tell me, what deed, what sacrifice, do I have to give to get you out of my future?

E.J.: Look, we both know there's a 50% chance this baby is mine.

Sami: This baby is mine, and I'm 100% certain of that, just like I am certain that you would never admit what you did to me, and that is why I will never trust you again.

E.J.: Samantha, please. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that I forced myself on you.

Sami: You raped me. Say it. Say it... because I want to hear you say the words.

E.J.: I'm sorry... that I raped you.

Sami: **** you to ****.

E.J.: Well, you may get your wish. But I need to know if that baby is mine, Samantha.



my interpretation is that he said it only because she insisted on him doing so...

it's still up for debate because she demanded him to say it-

E.J.: I will deny to the day that I die that I ever raped you.

Lucas: Deny it all you want. Deny it all you want, but I want you out of here right now.

E.J.: I'm sure you do, Lucas, because somewhere deep down inside, you know that, yes, we had sex that night, but your wife was a very willing participant.





and that's exactly why Lucas is sooooo suspcious of Sami around EJ... and why he's always probeing,accusing her of having feeling for EJ,fighting with her about him, or trying to keep her "locked up" somewhere he knows, she knows

everyone knows-




that's why EJ isnt in jail

and why Sami has no problem being around him

yes he admitted to raping her. why did he admit to her that? because of how she was acting and because he knew that she would never move past it unless he confessed to raping her. he wanted her to get over how it came about.
he has said that he regrets what happened that night, he has shown remorse, he has done everything that he can think of to make up for that night. how many times did he go against his own father for her, how many times did he get punched for her, how many times did he almost get killed himself because of her?
i won't say that he didn't admit raping her because he has admitted that he did....do i think that it was rape? no, because i have been raped and i remember what it felt like and i remember how it was when it happened, and i am telling you that i dont think that it was rape. he didn't have a gun to her head, he didnt rip her clothes off, he didn't hit her, he didn't tear off her clothes......he even told her that she could get out of the car and go and find someone else to save lucas.
it was an indecent proposal at best. do i agree with what he did to get to have sex with her finally? no, i dont agree with it.
but you know what? i know that ej is remorseful for everything that he has done. monday's episode will prove that he is more than remorseful for what he did.
like i said before we all have different opinions about that night. coming from a person that was raped, i can tell you that i just dont feel that it was rape that night.

This whole scene annoyed me. It was like they were trying to rewrite what happened on 12/29. I don't care if you think it was rape or not, Sami said YES, and here we have EJ saying that she said no when that clearly didn't happen? It annoys me to no end.

I don't think EJ thinks that he raped. He said that to appease her since she was demanding it of him and since he loves her so much he's willing to say that he did one of the most horrible crimes ever, even though he didn't.

Sami, said "yes" in my opinion. That doesn't sound like a rape victim.
& add this in. If it was rape why is she around him 24/7. Sami, is in love with EJ and what happen in that steam room surely proved it.

She told him that night "We both got what we wanted".

Wow...

That's amazing you took the time to write it all out.

Since I like the EJ and Sami couple - I read it as EJ loved her enough to say he did it because she desperately needed to hear it from him.

I really don't know if what happened that night was rape. Since they didn't show what happened people will have different opinions. When I first saw that episode I view it as rape and when I later showed my mom the scene she didn't think it was rape. To me there is only two facts that is important, Sami didn't want to have sex with EJ, she let that be know clearly. Also the gun. No EJ didn't point the gun to Sami's head during the whole ordeal (the discussion before and the event and afterwards) but he still had a gun. The knowledge that a person has a gun will result in the same fear if the gun was pointed at you.

Sami wouldn't be the first woman to regret what she did and cry rape after agreeing to have sex with someone. It happens all the time on soaps and in real life.

This thread was not meant to be a discussion thread about the encounter... it asked a simeple question, which has been answered. NO, he didn't have the gun out and pointing at her when they had sex. She was free to go but she wanted something from EJ and EJ negotiated the terms he wanted for helping to save Lucas. Sami undressed hersefl, told him he was only getting her body... he claimed that was enough then EJ and Sami had sex.

No gun.

Free to go.

She wanted something.

He wanted something.

She gave him what he wanted so she could have what she wanted.

I totally agree and that is what i have been trying to say all along. It is almost like you are talking to yourself in here sometimes.

lol don't have that much time on my hands- got it from http://tvmegasite.net/day/days/transcripts.shtml
and copied it-

and that was why i posted it- people have been saying he admitted it- i wanted to show WHY he HAD to say it...

she asked him to- and she seemed pretty angry that he did... maybe she was hoping he would continue to deny it so she could use it to hate it him somehow-
she probably didn't expect that he would say it for her- hence the "da.mn you"

it's not like im baseing this on how i THINK he felt- it's actually in the script-