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Asrael
I've recently come to the conclusion that while the explosion in New York wasn't inevitable, it may have been necessary to save many more lives than it would have taken. I say this because I believe Peter, who may in fact still be good at heart, has the potential for absolute power. We all know absolute power, corrupts absolutely.

This leads me to believe, that while F_Hiro may have believed that killing the exploding Sylar(in F_Hiro's Time-line) may prevent the catastrophe he had witnessed himself. I don't believe he truly knew the inadvertent consequences of making the most powerful person(Peter) nearly invincible, would have.

Now, Linderman, among others believed the bomb was not only necessary, but pointless and impossible to avoid. The reasons for their faith in this catastrophe is what struck me first. When Nathan and Linderman were talking about the bomb going off, Linderman mentioned .07% world population as an acceptable loss by anyones account. What if he meant when you can save millions of lives by allowing/ensuring the explosion.

Linderman was of course ridiculed by Nathan for his resolve, calling him a "lousy humanitarian". I've never believed this to be true, whether it was the graphic novels, a few lines here and there throughout the show, I still never really viewed Linderman as a bad guy.

I just felt he knew a bit more about the future then what we saw in Isaac's paintings, and the other artists' paintings he had in his "Road map to a brighter future". During this same scene, Nathan mentions that he knows a guy in a painting Linderman has, the painting is of Hiro saving the girl from being hit by a bus. Linderman then tells Nathan "If you see him, tell him I want my sword back". While he may have been saying he wants the sword, he bought, back, I believe that Linderman is none-other-than Takezo Kensei.

I also believe he intended on Peter dying during the explosion, he may have wanted this as to prevent anyone taking leadership from him... or perhaps, he was avoiding even more deaths. Peter has too much potential for power, it wouldn't take anyone long to realize this.

Finally, I think Kaito's [physical] response/reaction to "the hooded man" could be hinting at the fact that Kaito didn't defend himself with his [multiple] powers from this person, because this person could use all the same abilities against him. If Kaito is truly as powerful as I've seen mentioned, there's few that could match up with him, and this would include Sylar. So far the only people we've seen that have the potential to negate anyones power, has been the Haitian and Peter. The Haitian was sick during the death of Kaito, so this leaves me to believe that whether or not Peter is killing the first generation heroes, he may be the only one we've seen capable of doing so.


Guess we'll have to wait and see smile.gif
gonzofanmel77
QUOTE (Asrael @ Oct 11 2007, 04:44 AM) *
I've recently come to the conclusion that while the explosion in New York wasn't inevitable, it may have been necessary to save many more lives than it would have taken. I say this because I believe Peter, who may in fact still be good at heart, has the potential for absolute power. We all know absolute power, corrupts absolutely.



Keep in mind, though, that we were shown what happened when the bomb DID go off---Sylar became the president, not Nathan. All people with special abilities were exposed and made to be feared and loathed. The bomb going off actually made things worse, not better, for everyone involved.
Terastas
Linderman's idea was to unite the people under one leader (Nathan) in mourning, much the same way the country united united under Bush after 9/11. The bomb for Linderman was essentially a grand distraction: to keep the entire country focused on the disaster and not on his shady business practices.

Linderman's "brighter future" was one with Nathan as his puppet president. Isaac never really got around to painting Linderman's demise, so he wouldn't have known that he wouldn't be around to enjoy it. The series of eight depicting the upcoming events began with Mr. Nakamura's death, so Linderman's demise four months earlier couldn't have been included.

So far, the only thing Linderman and Kensei have in common is that they are British, and even then, they have two different regional accents. Furthermore, Kensei's power was regeneration (same as Claire) while Linderman's power was the ability to heal others. Unless Linderman was another sort of parasite like Sylar, he couldn't have had two different powers, and if he did, what are the odds of him acquiring two healing-related powers and absolutely nothing else?
Asrael
QUOTE (gonzofanmel77 @ Oct 11 2007, 09:44 AM) *
Keep in mind, though, that we were shown what happened when the bomb DID go off---Sylar became the president, not Nathan. All people with special abilities were exposed and made to be feared and loathed. The bomb going off actually made things worse, not better, for everyone involved.

This was also a future where p_Hiro hadn't stabbed Sylar prior to the explosion. Not to mention the fact that when Peter did blow up NY, it seemingly overwhelmed him with regret, possibly the best reminder to him what could happen if he didn't control his powers, his anger, etc.
Asrael
QUOTE (Terastas @ Oct 11 2007, 01:31 PM) *
Linderman's idea was to unite the people under one leader (Nathan) in mourning, much the same way the country united united under Bush after 9/11. The bomb for Linderman was essentially a grand distraction: to keep the entire country focused on the disaster and not on his shady business practices.

While those were his stated intentions, I believe he may have seen much more and only revealed what was necessary to get Nathan on board.

QUOTE (Terastas @ Oct 11 2007, 01:31 PM) *
Linderman's "brighter future" was one with Nathan as his puppet president. Isaac never really got around to painting Linderman's demise, so he wouldn't have known that he wouldn't be around to enjoy it. The series of eight depicting the upcoming events began with Mr. Nakamura's death, so Linderman's demise four months earlier couldn't have been included.

Linderman's "brighter future" may appear grim for him, but that's only if you truly believe he was killed by DL. He knew enough about Candice's power to have her create an illusion as a test for both Jessica and Niki. However, I don't honestly believe he is still alive and it's been my one true complaint about the show, a man with such power(not just supernatural) and knowledge shouldn't be such an easy target when he has so many powers at his disposal/command.

QUOTE (Terastas @ Oct 11 2007, 01:31 PM) *
So far, the only thing Linderman and Kensei have in common is that they are British, and even then, they have two different regional accents. Furthermore, Kensei's power was regeneration (same as Claire) while Linderman's power was the ability to heal others. Unless Linderman was another sort of parasite like Sylar, he couldn't have had two different powers, and if he did, what are the odds of him acquiring two healing-related powers and absolutely nothing else?


When Nathan pulled the gun on Linderman, he didn't appear frightened for his life, he even went on to make a joke "now you can't have any of my pot pie". The fact that he mentioned "Many men have tried to kill me", lead me to believe that killing him was no easy task and that he had come to the point where he may embrace death willingly, or at least no longer feared it. I don't believe Linderman has to have been a "parasite like Sylar" to have gained the power to heal himself, it's not such a huge leap of faith to believe that a person who's had the power to heal himself for so long couldn't eventually figure out how to heal others. We've seen numerous cases where the obvious power has not-so-obvious uses, such as Sprague's ability to create EMP, Sylars TK to cut peoples skullcaps off, I'm sure there's more, can't think of 'em at the moment though.
Terastas
QUOTE (Asrael @ Oct 11 2007, 02:22 PM) *
While those were his stated intentions, I believe he may have seen much more and only revealed what was necessary to get Nathan on board.

That doesn't make sense. If Linderman really had pure intentions, why would he hide them from Nathan and risk the possibility of him intervening to stop the bomb (which he did)? If he had a good reason to want the bomb to go off, he had no reason to keep it a secret.

QUOTE
When Nathan pulled the gun on Linderman, he didn't appear frightened for his life, he even went on to make a joke "now you can't have any of my pot pie". The fact that he mentioned "Many men have tried to kill me", lead me to believe that killing him was no easy task and that he had come to the point where he may embrace death willingly, or at least no longer feared it.

Linderman also said that if Nathan pulled the trigger, he would have been overwhelmed by the security guards. He wasn't afraid of being shot because he knew there was no way Nathan would throw his life away like that just so he could end Linderman's.

Regarding his statement that many have tried to kill him, it's worth noting that, according to his page in the Heroes Wiki, on top of being a mafia boss, he is also a Vietnam War veteran. A section of the Graphic Novels details his war experience, including his inability to heal the dead.

Linderman had financial power, but his power could only be used to others benefit. That's why he tried to bribe Jessica at first; because he could never stand on his own.
Asrael
QUOTE (Terastas @ Oct 11 2007, 05:42 PM) *
That doesn't make sense. If Linderman really had pure intentions, why would he hide them from Nathan and risk the possibility of him intervening to stop the bomb (which he did)? If he had a good reason to want the bomb to go off, he had no reason to keep it a secret.

Or simply didn't want to tell Nathan that his little brother had to die(Peter) in order to ensure his "brighter future".

QUOTE (Terastas @ Oct 11 2007, 05:42 PM) *
Linderman also said that if Nathan pulled the trigger, he would have been overwhelmed by the security guards. He wasn't afraid of being shot because he knew there was no way Nathan would throw his life away like that just so he could end Linderman's.

It would still be a terrible risk to take for Linderman even if he expected that the guards would charge in and take out Nathan shortly after. Which still leads me to believe he simply isn't afraid of death.

QUOTE (Terastas @ Oct 11 2007, 05:42 PM) *
Regarding his statement that many have tried to kill him, it's worth noting that, according to his page in the Heroes Wiki, on top of being a mafia boss, he is also a Vietnam War veteran. A section of the Graphic Novels details his war experience, including his inability to heal the dead.

Irregardless of the fact that he was in Vietnam, and was a reputed mobster. He still obviously survived many attempts made at his life(which was my point), now either he's one lucky s.o.b. or extremely elusive. Sorry, but I'm betting he didn't really have to dodge bullets.

QUOTE (Terastas @ Oct 11 2007, 05:42 PM) *
Linderman had financial power, but his power could only be used to others benefit. That's why he tried to bribe Jessica at first; because he could never stand on his own.


We don't know for certain his healing only works on others, that's just an assumption based on the fact that we've only seen him demonstrate his power to Nathan, and on a plant. Perhaps after his display of healing, he didn't find it all that necessary to cut himself just so Nathan could see him heal.

I realize I'm using a whole lot of what-ifs, maybes, and perhaps', but as far as I knew this is a theory and speculation forum. Yet it seems you're intent on disproving every point I make with what seems to be irrefutable facts to you. When we both know, they're [mostly] facts backed by major assumptions.
ryanjbass
Asrael, your theories are at the very least credible, and at the most interesting ideas, so I see no point in refuting them. At least it's not another god-awful "(blank) is Sylar's evil twin!" theory.

Where it's credible:

-Linderman's quote from S1 is a great find! If he were Kensei it would at least add credence to the idea that the writers think far ahead.

-The idea that Kensei could evolve the power to heal others is not far-fetched. The "healing gene" may first manifest as a self-regenerative property, then over the course of several hundred years, mutate into a healing property. Anything's possible.

-I cannot say what Linderman's true reasoning was for wanting Peter to explode in New York, but I doubt he was entirely evil, just vastly misguided. I certainly hope that the writers don't go the route of "he wanted to unite us in tragedy"-whatever his reasoning, there's gotta be a better explanation than that.

-If and when we realize what powers Kaito may have had, the possibilities of who killed him will narrow greatly.

Where it's weak:

If Linderman and Kensei are the same person, then they need a very good reason as to why Linderman has aged so much (because he can continually heal).

The only other idea that I find is really a stretch is if you are infering that Peter is the one doing the killings. Peter's powers are a match for anyone, although he is somewhat of a dullard in my opinion, so he could've killed Kaito. But we also know that when Kaito died, Peter was halfway across the world, and also had no reason to kill someone he didn't know (amnesia). So if the writers are planning on throwing that at us, they better come up with a good explanation.
Asrael
QUOTE (Nakamuraplaza @ Oct 12 2007, 07:22 PM) *
Where it's weak:

If Linderman and Kensei are the same person, then they need a very good reason as to why Linderman has aged so much (because he can continually heal).

Or how little he aged, considering the years spent alive.

QUOTE (Nakamuraplaza @ Oct 12 2007, 07:22 PM) *
The only other idea that I find is really a stretch is if you are infering that Peter is the one doing the killings. Peter's powers are a match for anyone, although he is somewhat of a dullard in my opinion, so he could've killed Kaito. But we also know that when Kaito died, Peter was halfway across the world, and also had no reason to kill someone he didn't know (amnesia). So if the writers are planning on throwing that at us, they better come up with a good explanation.

For pretty much the entire first season, excluding Five Years Gone, Peter was absolutely a 'dullard'. I don't feel the same will be true this season, to be honest, he seems more confident now even with his lack of memory then he ever did. However, I'm not entirely sold on the amnesia idea either. It's entirely possible that Peter did in fact absorb the Haitians ability and just removed his own memories, perhaps to avoid unwillingly admitting his guilt via "new-age" interrogation techniques(Parkman). Also, I believe Ireland is at least 5 hours ahead of New York as far as time zone is concerned, we don't know for certain how long Peter's been in the container. Not to mention the fact that Peter did absorb Hiros ability, very possible they could explain it being Peter just by using Hiros ability to teleport/time-travel.
Clancy_Kid
Linderman was an idiot. He was just looking for a power grab and a way to manipulate Nathan once he was in the White House. That was Linderman's MO all along. He constantly tried to manipulate and buy off others for his own power gain. If he had any real feelings about anyone else other than himself, I didn't see it.
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