From NBC Universal Media Village

LAW & ORDER: SPECIAL VICTIMS UNIT

UNORTHODOX

01-15-2008 10:00PM

A YOUNG JEWISH BOY IS BRUTALLY ATTACKED AND THE CLUES LEAD TO A DISTURBED CLASSMATE. When David Zelinsky (guest star Braeden Lemasters) shows up to school visibly beaten and sexually assaulted, Detectives Olivia Benson (Mariska Hargitay) and Elliot Stabler (Christopher Meloni) look to David’s tutor (guest star Noel Joseph Allain) and his Rabbi (guest star Bob Dishy) for answers. The investigation soon leads to one of David’s troubled classmates, Jack Trembley (guest star Alexander Gould), as more victims begin to come forward. The case quickly turns into a media circus as Trembley’s attorney, Roxana Hickey (guest star Rhea Perlman), uses it as an opportunity for her own self-promotion. Also starring: Adam Beach, Dann Florek, Ice-T, Diane Neal, Tamara Tunie, Richard Belzer, and BD Wong.

Show Cast: Chris Meloni, Mariska Hargitay, Dann Florek, Richard Belzer, Ice T, Diane Neal

as i have gathered from the many other SVU episodes portraying orthodox jews... they never actually get it right... for example in stalked...that overly steriotypical man who was brought in to look at photos... was no way at all near the realm of most jews... i am just hoping that the writers dont screw it up again...although i have seen the trend in episodes involving jews and understand that my hoping that it will portay us jews properly is totally a useless thought... so when you watch this episode please please please dont assume that this is how the jewish world works...thanx

Where's Munch? Neal Baer said in a TV Guide interview/article posted last December that Munch was going to be in Unorthodox and with Stabler. That summary reads Benson and Stabler! Did he lie to us again? If he did... I swear to God this man needs to reevaluate his New Year's Resolution... It was bad enough when he said Munch was going to be in Uncle, supposedly Munch centered one, and it turned out to be a Beck and Stabler episode...

If they don't bring Munch into a Jewish themed episode that would be pretty weak and obviously show proof of the writers trying to keep him out of the series.

Munch was in the preview so I'm thinking he finally is going to get some air time. I really miss his banter in the squad room. This season it seems they are trying to fit too many people in the conversations in the squad room and it has lost it's natural flow. It feels like they are all reciting their lines one at a time instead of actually having a natural conversation and I miss the quick-witted Munch and his interactions with Fin and Elliot.

Seems sad that he is only featured this time at all because he is Jewish and this episode is featuring a Jewish boy. Hopefully he will have more than five lines. I was really missing Munch and Elliot in last nights episode "Signature".

I'm a Conservative Jew and I've often wondered if Belz gets tired of being 'the token Jew' on SVU.

It irritates me greatly that they use Munch as The Automatic Yiddish Translator for this ep. (I've seen a clip from "Unorthodox.") Granted, Munch's culture and heritage are an integral part of him, and it's good when that's used sparingly or accurately -- as was done on "Homicide: Life of the Street" -- but I'd rather the writers didn't pander to it. They need to write some Munch-centric scripts that don't hinge on his being Jewish. Apparently, that's too much to ask of them and their abilities.

It bugs me that they do that to him too GlockGal - because it seems a waste of his talent. But they do that to everyone more or less on this show - Elliot is the token Catholic that has to handle all the crazy Christians and the pervie priests, Huang knows all the Chinese dialects and I bet he has never set foot in China, Fin only leads on an investigation if it is in Harlem and Casey handles all inept lawyers with bad hair. There are no shades of gray in the Law and Order world.

What is Olivia token for? Or is she the only diverse one in the bunch?

Victims like her and her past. Though I think she's been getting to dramatic about it lately and her family situation.

We need episodes like the Legendary Five. Ones that did not focus on Munch's heritage. These were the shades of grey. But alas, I don't think the writers know this. I don't think they have ever seen a Legendary Five episode because they would know to bring Munch back and make him the lead detective of an episode.

1. Remorse
2. Legacy
3. Manhunt
4. Painless
5. Parts (made a very brief reference to his religion)

Sophia, you are absolutely right. I never thought of it that way, but you nailed it. I stand corrected. Here's hoping something will radically change on the show, so they'll finally use Belz to his full potential. He deserves nothing less than that.

SPOILERS

I will try not to disclose major items since I know most people haven't seen it yet. But I will say this much before going to bed.

This episode is nothing like the Legendary Five. Munch is not the lead detective in this. All I am seeing is Stabler doing the work, arrests, interrogations, etc. while Munch is his translator and guide in Jewish culture. Surely you can do better than that Baer. Munch is after all the most experianced man you've got in your aresenal, nearly 40 years experiance, and yet you refrain from using him to his full potential. You seem to like Munch as a bell-hop. Surely, you can give him a red-ball case where he is the lead detective and all we see is him and not burly biceps Stabler? You have once again lied to us. And you had Munch addressed as "Detective." Surely, we have not forgotten already he was promoted to Sergeant?

1.Remorse
2.Legacy
3.Manhunt
4.Painless
5.Parts

And that is all I have to say.

Once an episode has aired on the East Coast/Central Timezones, you no longer need to use spoiler warnings...

JD/Forum Moderator

I am new to the site, but after this episode, i just had to log on and see what people had to say about it. I cannot believe the outcome of this show. I understand that there is a lot of sex and violence on TV, but to suggest that it is the reason that a child would forcibly rape four other children is outrageous. It is the same as suggesting that Marylin Manson was the reason for the tragedy in Columbine. I know that because he was a child it was more believable that he didn't know what he was doing was wrong, but I think that if you are old enough to get it up and want to call someone your 'b***h' then you are old enough to know and understand right from wrong. And to be perfectly honest, (I think he was) 14 isn't really all that young.

I thought this was an intriguing episode of SVU. I'm not Jewish, I'm a Christian and it was thought provoking for me to see how the rape of a young boy is perceived in the Jewish culture. When the last scene came in and the boy was found not guilty, in more or less words, I was kind of taken aback. I would've thought that he would have been found guilty, because of what he did and how he thought the other children he hurt would've liked it.

please know that what I said above isn't written to offend anyone and my apologies if I have offended anyone.

on another note.. it was great to see Christopher Maloni back!! He did a great job once again! As did Richard! It was nice to see an episode, centered around his character, I haven't seen many of those, but they are always very good!

is it me or did the actor who played Jack not seem to look 14? He looked younger than that to me.

just an obsevation.

CONFUSED!?

At the end on the show Benson and Novak were talking about Jack and whether or not how he was raised had anything to do with what happened. The part that confuses me is when Novak says to Benson that his "son turned out ok." I only know of one son that Benson has, and he was just born at the begining of this season. Is there something I missed? Please let me know....

Benson does not have any children. I think that you are talking about Stabler. If this is the case, he and his wife have 5 children (three girls and two boys). Their older son is named Richard, but they call him Dickie and he is 15.

Does anyone know who the Jewish girl was with the rabbi in the beginning of the episode getting questioned? They were a couple or something like that. I want to know the actresses name.

I don't know if this is the same person that ur talking about, but the tutor's secret girlfriend looks so familiar, does anyone know who she's played by?

Yeah that's her. She looks familiar to me too. At first I thought it was Claire Forlani. But it's not. Please let me know if anyone finds out who she is played by.

I'm not on these boards much but I wanted to insert my 2 cents here.



That episode was horrible. There. I've said it.

Not only were the references to the Jewish community inaccurate, but the evidence was botched. I'll make my case now, with specifics:

1. The talmudic/biblical references were wrong (the use of yehareg v'al ya'avor, lifnei eever and piku'ach nefesh were contextually improper)

2. the beards and the yiddish were poorly done

3. the generalizations about the upstate community (which would not have been called by the name "kehillat" -- that precedes the name of a particular synagogue...the real upstate town is kiryat yoel) were wrong regarding the existence of cell phones especially and other media

4. the hurried convening of a beit din (rabbinical court) to adjudicate matters of a criminal nature was wrong (dina demalchuta dina, people)

5. they would not have been davening "maariv" during the daylight hours

And that's off the top of my head.

Now, I have always hated when the law students I knew way back when dissected the legal minutae to make their points, but this was glaring (and I'll forget the argument that this somehow justifies any act of sex or violence -- kids see murders on Law and Order and other shows -- as being the media's fault). The kid wanted respectability after having sex. Great; who doesn't. But he didn't tell anyone! How did he expect others to know what he did if he kept it quiet. He even made David promise not to say anything -- this smacks of understanding that the behavior is not acceptable, and a knowledge of right and wrong. So would seeing blood -- has the media taught him that bleeding is actually ok?

And unless he sought out only rape based porn, he would have seen very few scenes on Cinemax, Pay per View and the internet with male rape in jail or female rape. The standard stuff with women getting naked is not rape or violence based.

I love the show, but this stuff was silly and way below the usual level of writing general excellence.

And no, I'm not a chasid or a lawyer. Just a religious Jew surrounded often by both.

Lol, yes I was talking about Stabler. Thank you for clearing that up. Does Richard appear in many shows? I don't believe I've seen him before, and I thought I've seen just about every episode. Does he even live with Stabler?

He's appeared a couple times in scenes with Elliot's family, but I don't think he's had any of his own storylines like Maureen and Kathleen have. If he's 15 now, though, he should be getting one soon enough. He's getting to that age where kids become idiots.

The kid you were thinking about in your earlier post is Elliot's newborn, Elliot, Jr. Olivia helped deliver him, but it was Kathy - Elliot's wife - who actually gave birth. But the son who "turned out okay" was Elliot's older son, Dickie. As Rannon said, Olivia has never had any kids. She's not married; she's NEVER been married, SHE'S ALL ALONE!!! </tv show quote>

hi,
i'm a new kid on the block, but am a loyal SVU fan. I got a phone call last night the last 15 min.
of the show, and missed how it turned out. the last i saw was Elliott and Casey talking over the coffee.
can someone PLEASE tell me how it ended?!?
thanks!!
Sherri

Not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect.

Okay what is the deal with Elliott and Olivia both acting totally out of character?

And why would Elliott suddenly come out in support of a father who was obviously an a******?

I mean come on--hard core pornography is not accessible on regular or basic cable without paying for it. Same with the internet most really hard core stuff requires a age verification both of which should have flagged with dad when he got the bill. Also the kid said he watched DVD's--and the kid looked about 10 so I doubt anybody at the video store believed he was old enough to rent or even be in the section that rented those type of movies.

The dad obviously did not care about the child at all-didn't monitor his behavior-notice anything unusual or that his aggression was escalating--and even when Elliott confronted him he said something to the effect people looked at him like he was to blame--to which I said DUH!! But Elliott glossed it over-very out of character if you ask me.

About the only thing I agreed with in the whole episode was that it would be a mistake to throw the kid into the adult population of prison. But otherwise what the heck was the point? The kid was messed up yes-but hospitalizing him and then sending him home to his father who let him watch hard core porn and worried about his own reputation when his child turned into a rapist with a totally misconstrued perception of sex and sexual expresssion was not the answer.

Anyway this was officially the second worst episode of SVU I've ever seen--the first being the horrible Sin.

also, if anyone knows the name of the actor who played jack's father george, please let me know. thank you!

sorry, i'm new at this!
in the episode 'unorthodox', wondering who plays george tremblay, the little rapist's dad.
thanks!

I like how this board keeps deleting my posts in this thread... and another user... even though we had that board hacking situation...

The next time Baer mentions Munch will be in an episode, I'm going to write him a letter asking if it is a Munch-centered episode like the Legendary Five, or is it a throw-in-Munch-to-please-the-MunchFin-Junkies-so-we-can-get-our-ratings-up-with-them episode?

Are you illiterate or something? When we say we want a Munch episode, we want one like the Legendary Five.

The plot sucked, Elliot was doing all the work without his help, Elliot was OOC again (I'd expected him to take a swing at that father when he wouldn't help his son), Munch was used like a Jewish Culture and Religion for Dummies book, Baer lied to the MunchFin Junkies YET AGAIN, Munch had more scenes in Uncle than this thingymagig you called an episode, WTF?

The Legendary Five episodes had better plots with Munch. Everytime you say there is Munch in an episode, Baer, that's how I rank them. Too bad if you think it's not fair. Give us an episode like we're use to. And quit lying just to boost up your ratings you selfish idiot.

Next time you write an episode "with Munch," consult these scripts as they will help you know what a Munch episode is...

1. Remorse
2. Legacy
3. Manhunt
4. Painless
5. Parts

Well said. I, too, was disappointed on how much Munch was actually in the episode. My favorite Munch eppy in "Painless". Now that's an eppy they need to look at the next time they make a Munch eppy.

No ones posts were deleted, the system forum was reset with a back-up copy to restore the 30 Rock forum which was attacked on Monday by hackers, as a result, approximately 5 hours of posts were lost forum-wide. The techs are attempting to restore them, but, it's unknown if that will be possible.

Also, Munchkin...it is not necessary to keep putting the same paragraph in all of your posts (repeating the 5 episodes as you have done four times in this thread already.) and if you continue it will be considered spamming the threads and I will begin editing it out.

JD/Forum Moderator

Can I just call them the Legendary Five then and refer back to here?

I didn't know I was spamming. I was just using repetition as a writing device in my posts. I'm sorry if it's considered spamming. I didn't know.

Also on the spoilers, the only reason why I warned everyone is because not everyone has seen it yet and I didn't want to be rude and ruin the episode for them. I know the Pacific is three hours behind eastern time, so it would've been 8 their time when I posted my comment.

You're welcome to add a comment on the five to your signature, but repeatedly saying the same thing in posts is still considered spamming.

Also, once an episode has aired on the East Coast anyone who enters the threads does so at their own risk, that's also why there is a spoiler warning on the entire thread.

JD/Forum Moderator

So I can still say it but just not repeat it all the time in all of my posts?

I know, but I still think it's just polite, despite the spoiler warning, that's all. I just know some people who don't like reading people's posts that have seen the episode, but they still come to the threads to read what people think will happen and such.

dont worry i do not take any offense from you... all my offense is offered to dick wolf who portrays orthodox jews VERY wrong...
there are many sects of irthodox jews...
i am orthodox but if you saw me and all you knew about orthodox jews was from SVU youd think i was an orthodox jew from mars...there are groups of jews who dress like the ones on SVU...but by no means do they act like the ones portrayed by the charachters...
additionally... the "black hat" or "streimel" (fuzzy round hat) and black coats are not at all how anyone in my communities dress..
i wear skirts (mostly) but ones that are found at gap and target etc.
i wear shirts from all gap and target etc too...
i watch movies and clearly TV...while most who dress like those portraid on SVU will never step foot near a TV..
additionally...there was a reference to the fact that men and women dont touch before marriage...but the aspect they portraid was that the rabbi and his secret girlfriend couldnt hold back and had to get busy...this is what i find most offensive in the whole episode... i have been "shomeret negiaya" meaning i dont touch guys...since i was about 12...and its not this horrid thing and most orthodox jews who are stringent on this commandment dont sneak around...and touch the opposite gender...
the other thing i found offensive in the episode was that the actual facts of the episode had no connection to jews...the perp was the little boy...and the victims father happened to be this "orthodox jew" but the episode couldve clearly been done with the mother of the victim suspecting the father in a ahrd divorse..but the jesish connection did not have any reason to be there...especially since the end result was that it was the kid...
also much knew WAAAAAAAY too much for the type of jew that he is...
there was a line about the talmud ...(gemara) that much said oh...btw there is a concept in talmud...not to be steriotypical...BUT most jews who affiliate themselves in similar ways to munch...dont even know what talmud is...let alone be able to quote passages
ive learned talmud since 5th grade and i cant do that..(for the most part)
so why can munch...

there have been other eppys with this portrayal of the "orthodox jew" such as when the guy comes to look at pictures to id a perp in "stalked" and he goes on this whole thing with munch about mitzvot (commandments) and stuff and was a real werido... also a mitzvah is not really a good deed as portrayd in the episode...it is a comandment that often intersects with good deeds...but often is between man and G-d and has no clear moral reason...
enough with my ramage to dick wolf...but if he's gonna stereo type...he should at least do it right...

From NBC Universal Media Village

LAW & ORDER: SPECIAL VICTIMS UNIT

UNORTHODOX

03-08-2008 9:00PM

A YOUNG JEWISH BOY IS BRUTALLY ATTACKED AND THE CLUES LEAD TO A DISTURBED CLASSMATE. When David Zelinsky (guest star Braeden Lemasters) shows up to school visibly beaten and sexually assaulted, Detectives Olivia Benson (Mariska Hargitay) and Elliot Stabler (Christopher Meloni) look to David’s tutor (guest star Noel Joseph Allain) and his Rabbi (guest star Bob Dishy) for answers. The investigation soon leads to one of David’s troubled classmates, Jack Trembley (guest star Alexander Gould), as more victims begin to come forward. The case quickly turns into a media circus as Trembley’s attorney, Roxana Hickey (guest star Rhea Perlman), uses it as an opportunity for her own self-promotion. Also starring: Adam Beach, Dann Florek, Ice-T, Diane Neal, Tamara Tunie, Richard Belzer, and BD Wong.

Show Cast: Chris Meloni, Mariska Hargitay, Dann Florek, Richard Belzer, Ice T, Diane Neal