Jill could have contacted Chuck if she wanted to. Bryce had his email account so I would think that she had it too. Or his home address. As far as Jill being blameless, I can't think of nor have I heard of any believable theory that would exonerate Jill. No matter what excuses are dreamed up, Jill could not have felt as deeply about Chuck as he did about her or she wouldn't have left him. As for saying that we don't know enough about Jill to make any judgment, we know allot more about Bryce, and from what we know about him, not think but know, then we have more evidence of Bryce being a good guy then we do for Jill being a good person.

Now that i watched the pilot episode again because in the beginning CHuck talk about how he meet Jill and the whole story so i think Jill did break up with Chuck or Bryce said something to her.

Don't put all the blame on her, why didn't Chuck try to contact her?

im not putting all the blame on her. like i said "they" might not have been as in love as they thought. she didnt try to contact chuck to at least explain why she left. and he just let her go so she could be with bryce or live a happy life.

How do we know she didn't try and contact him? How do we know there isn't an explanation?

The point is, this whole thing is up in the air!

We know that they broke up, and judging from the fact that Chuck was still depressed about it years later I think that we can safely say that it was Jill who did the breaking. There is name for guy who keeps trying to contact a girl after she has broken up with him and the name is "stalker". Judging from the way that he was acting in the Pilot, if Jill had contacted him he would have gone running to her. As far as she having an excuse, I suppose that if she was in a coma the whole time and just now woke up she would have a good excuse. Anything else would just be her trying to justify why she found it better to dump him then to stay with him during his time of need. To bad for her, lucky for Chuck. He now has Sarah and Jill has ???

You aren't considering the possiblity she could justify it.

Try this on for size...

Chuck was known for talking about Jill to every other girl...Ellie was constantly on him for not doing that! Just before his first date with Sarah...she warned him not do that...finally...he listened!!

Sarah has know idea how much Jill meant to Chuck...so when Jill does come back into the picture I believe she will be broadsided with Chuck's first love. All Sarah knows is that Bryce stole Chuck's girlfriend. I've never heard Sarah ask Chuck about his relationship with Jill. Rather it's been the other way around (Chuck asking Sarah about Bryce).

So regardless of whos fault it was in the Jill/Chuck break....it is still fresh in Chuck's heart. Although it may be margenalized right now because of his current life...but when Jill comes back into the picture...I really believe a lot of emotion will come back with her.

I really believe those episodes (2-3 shows) will be very intense...and will dramatically shape the Chuck/Sarah relationship...this could also be the catalyst for them moving into together and or taking their relationship to the next level.

You are right. I don't think that there is a possibility that she could come up with a believable justification.

I'm not discounting the possibility that she and Bryce were both CIA. We still have alot of unanswered questions about the Stanford years.

how about if Sarah went to Stanford the year after Chuck left and she got recruited the time she was at Stanford ???

I think that when it came down to it, she thought that Chuck had ruined any future prospects that he may have had and she didn't want to tie herself to him. It could be because she was afraid of what her friends would say if she still dated him, or it could be that she thought that he would be a drag on her future. At any rate I think that when he was expelled she decided that it would be in her best interest to dump him. She may now regret it and think that she didn't have her priorities straight, and she may feel guilty about the way she dumped him, but if she wanted to get back with Chuck again in the back of his mind he would have to remember that at the lowest point in his life she abandoned him. Compare that with someone who has risked her life for him. It may be Sarah's job to do that, but there has been indications that she would still do it for him and not the intersect. Plus Sarah's really hot and would still have that Wienerlicious outfit. Kind of shallow to point that out but allot guys (me) take that into consideration.

DTE, you mean if Sara met Bryce at Stanford after Chuck left? That'd be a twist!
Agreed, RFI, there is no way Jill can compete w/ sara at this point. No matter what happened at Stanford, she didn't exactly stand by her man. As for the hot factor... we gals love her for her character, her strength, her karate kicks and even her beauty. The outfits... well, we are looking forward to pink berry!

Sarah seems to me to be a very strong and determined individual. I tend to think that if Chuck had been going out with Sarah at Stanford and he was expelled she would have not only stood by him but would do her best to help him through it and would even try to fix the situation. I don't see her dumping him.

I agree. It's a character thing. Sarah would not have become the top spy that she is supposed to be without being extraordinarily determined and strong-willed. If Sarah had been Chuck's girlfriend back at Stanford, she would have gotten Chuck exonerated, then kick Bryce's butt before having Bryce himself expelled for bearing false witness and planting fake evidence.

There is no way Jill would win Chuck back.


Then you are seriously undermining the writers. They could come up with dozens of scenarios that fit.

I just don't see why everyone in Chuck's past has to have a sneaky motive. Jill could have simply made a mistake - like people do all the time.

I don't think that anyone said that Jill had a sneaky motive and I do believe that I have said Jill may in hindsight come to realize that she made a mistake. Yes, everyone does make mistakes, but mistakes do have consequences and not all mistakes can be forgiven. In this case, I think that Chuck may forgive her but he will not forget what happened. When he needed her most she wasn't there. No matter what she tells Chuck, that has to stay in the back of his mind. He will have some serious trust issues with her.

Not every one from Chucks past can turn out to be a "good guy." I want Jill to be bad, maybe not terrorist type bad, but bad in the way that she is shallow and hurt Chuck. It would give him all the more reason to be happy with the fact they broke up and all the more reason for Sarah to go kick her a$$!!

^^^ The one main person we have met from Chuck's past isn't a good guy. I don't think you are thinking of what is best for Chuck here. The way you want Jill seems to hurt him even more; if she is really good, and just got tricked/made a mistake, and can justify it, Chuck feels better, and even more confident, and that will help in his relationship with Sarah. If she is bad, that doesn't help his relationship with Sarah.

I think the only reason you want her to be bad is because you are unconsciously scared of Chuck choosing her!

negative! I just feel that if Jill turned up after so many years and she tells Chuck that she left him because she didnt see him going anywhere in life, then yes it would hurt him but it would also make him realize that she did him a favor by leaving because he has Sarah and im sure Sarah can convince him that his life, spy and normal is special and important.

then she can go kick her butt!!!

Sorry, you have to admit that my scenario makes Chuck feel much better than yours. You are ignoring the fact that Chuck wouldn't have dated the kind of person you are describing for 3+ years.

Oh no? but he could be best friends with someone that was a jerk?

I think the first four years of the Chuck / Jill / Bryce relationship was FINE, just look at his expression and talking about them in the Pilot episode describing their relationship. The breakups with both were bad. I think Chuck's judgment in hanging out with both of them was fine. I think sometimes stuff happens. I think all three, INCLUDING Chuck handled things wrong, I don't see any of them as good or bad.

That someone was a manipulator. Unless you are suggesting Jill is an agent as well, you have no case.

I'm not down on Jill because I'm afraid that he will choose Jill over Sarah. It's pretty obvious that is not going to happen. I'm down on Jill because when it looked to Chuck as though his whole world was crumbling around him, she added to his misery by dumping him. I don't buy the arguement that he wouldn't date someone like that for 3 years so she must be nice. I've known way too many really nice people who end up with some real....not so nice people. Guy especially will put up alot from a good looking woman, and yes, I do think that Chuck may have been like that. I don't think that he had that much experience with women at the time, and it could very well be that Jill was just fine as long as it seemed to her that things were going her way. That doesn't make her a bad person, that just means that when the time came she didn't feel strongly enough about Chuck to risk her future with him once he was expelled. As far as what would make Chuck feel better, I think that finding out that Jill was a real.....not nice person when she dumped him then if she was some sweet girl who was "tricked" or "misled". I can't imagine how she was "tricked" into dumping Chuck. I hope that when she shows up she tells Chuck she made a mistake and asks for forgiveness. Chuck "forgives" her, but Sarah doesn't. Sarah then "helps" her decide that maybe hanging around Chuck isn't such a good idea now and she leaves.

Ok...since we are dealing with hypotheticals...what happens if Bryce (which I believe had more to do with this than we know) deceived them both. What happens if he (Bryce) concocted a lie that led Chuck and Jill to believe that the other broke it off? Bryce forging a letter...or created some sort of false communication...then took advantage of Jill in her emotional state? The purpose of this deception was to seperate Chuck from Stanford and all who he had relationship with to make sure he never discovered the truth about his inevitable recruitment to the CIA.

I know this may sound far fetched....but there is definetly something missing here. I do believe this is bigger than a simple relational breakup. It all ties together...and eventually we will have the pieces to solve the puzzle.

FWIW, I'm also in the camp that the two were broken up, rather than Jill breaking up with Chuck. I think there are a number of ways where that could have happened.

Why do I think this?

(1) It's a TV series. Can't throw away a chance for a perfectly good plotline, especially one that could be a roadblock for Chuck and Sarah. The best way to use Jill's character is for there to have been a misunderstanding of some kind, like there was with Bryce.

(2) They could go the route of Jill-is-an-evil-person-who-had-some-mysterious-hold-over-Chuck, but that doesn't fit what we know about Chuck at Stanford: confident, assertive, successful. It just doesn't fit.

She'll be back, she'll be beautiful, and she'll have a good explanation for what happened.

Just my opinion.

^^^ I agree except for the beautiful part. Isn't she supposed to be nerdy?

I can't believe that Jill either has to be completely innocent and nice, or evil. Nothing in between. Her breaking up with Chuck when he was expelled does not make her evil, just pragmatic or maybe just more concerned about her future then she was about Chuck's. Maybe it was a moment of weakness, or maybe Chuck felt more strongly about her then she did about him. It sounds a bit out there to think that some one else did something underhanded to break them up. As far as promoting the story line, I think that it would be a good story line to have her show up, make a big play for Chuck, and for him to just shut her down. One last thing, at the beginning of the Nemesis episode Chuck said something about how many voice messages that he had left Sarah and that he was starting to sound like a stalker. Morgan said something along the line of just like old times. Who do you think Chuck kept trying to call before? If it was Jill, then it sounds to me like Chuck wanted to get back together and she wasn't interested. I think she dumped him, and didn't need any help from anyone to come to that decision.

I really don't understand the argument that Jill must be good because Chuck wouldn't have been with her for so long if she wasn't. I think one of Chuck's main qualities is that he is willing to overlook flaws in the people that are close to him. Morgan and Sarah certainly have serious flaws but he loves them both.

Sarah has stated he is a good judge of character. Morgan and Sarah are not golddiggers, which is what some people are suggesting Jill was. There is a difference between untentional problems like what Morgan and Sarah have, and intentional ones that are being suggested for Jill.

Ok I think that the singer for Evanescence should be Jill. Good looking, but not more than Sarah, would also explain where she has been. Maybe she broke up with him to go out on the road.

In what scene did Sarah say that Chuck was a good judge of character? I must have missed it. Morgan's problems, lack of respect for other people's property and privacy, and most of his other flaws are all intentional. He can quit doing them any time he wants to. Here's a plot line for you. The ex-lover is thought to be bad, but when the ex-lover explains what happened it turns out that it wasn't the ex-lover's fault. The ex-lover wants to get back together again, but after some inner conflict the hero decides to stay with the new love interest. Is that the story of Chuck and Jill? Or maybe Bryce and Sarah? Unless the writers want to just give us the same story but the names are changed, I think that Jill will be at fault, will want to get back with Chuck but Chuck is not interested, and she may try something underhanded to break up Chuck and Sarah.

I guess I was right.

No. You don't want to put any blame on Chuck.

I don't know if this has been said or not (I usually avoid Jill/Bryce threads as they are more...lacking of fact)....

.....What if Jill is like Sarah? Sort of emotionally broken or some other character flaw i.e. Lacks confidence?

We know Jill was nerdy (at least a bit - Everquest player). There will be no question that she is pretty and smart. The information we have says she fell for Chuck at least somewhat.

Isn't it a reasonable assumption that maybe they both dropped the ball?
- Maybe she wanted more commitment but was afraid to take it to the next level for fear of rejection.
- Maybe she is simply lacking self confidence in a major way.
- Maybe she heard about the test papers and was afraid to confront him about it, especially in light of her feelings.
- Maybe she lets it go so long that people assume she was not really interested in the first place, compounding her problem. Like a big circle.

Chuck on the other hand, can do some impulsive stuff. Five years ago, he could have been much worse.
- Maybe because she didn't respond to his phone calls he assumed she didn't want anything to do with him, when maybe she was afraid of being rejected. His knee jerk self pity rejection could end up alienating her.
- The Bryce connection could really be he was just consoling her on her inability to tell him how she feels. Someone saw they were together...word gets back to Chuck and he just over reacts again and ties it all together as Bryce stole Jill, therefore he won't call/talk to her at all.

In short, what if the whole break up turned out to be less about Bryce and the papers and more about Chuck over reacting to her inability to own up to her feelings for him.

At the end of the day, she could actually still have strong 'unrealized' feelings for Chuck that she never told him about because she was scared to and his reactions would have just forced her to hold them in.

Fast forward to now.
Jill comes back. Takes an episode to bring information to light. By end of episode, Chuck is told she is still in love with him and her character flaw is highlighted. Writers draw a parallel to Sarah's character in some fashion.
2nd episode, Chuck has to work out his feelings for Sarah and Jill. Both want him but if Sarah is unwilling to commit and Jill is, it could create a problem. Possibly forces Sarah to step up or lose him like Jill did 6 years ago (by 2nd season). Then again, Sarah's character flaw could force her into the same situation as Jill had.
3rd episode, Chuck spends more time with Jill and realizes her time has passed. He is different now and prefers Sarah. Sarah, may actually step up and finally confess to Casey/Chuck feelings.

Just some random thoughts.
For the record, everyone seems to think of Jill as:
a) evil, b ) manipulative, c)easy, d)an agent, f) already over Chuck at time of breakup, g) all or some of above

I'm saying she was like Chuck in character, but had flaws more like Sarah. Flaws that were compounded by Chucks flaws. Another note for Charah fans, is that you could use this same argument to notice that the flaws of Chuck & Sarah seem to be nullified by the other half, rather than magnified in Chuck & Jill's case.

Hey CC I do believe you have something there which are similar to thoughts that I layed out earlier this month. But again...this relationship (Jill/Chuck) has not been developed enough for us to ascertain how the writers will direct it. I believe all the options above are viable, but the bigger question is how do the writers want to use these episodes to further the general plot of "Chuck"? The Jill componont can either drive Chuck and Sarah further apart or closer together.

I never said that Chuck didn't bear some responsibility but ultimately it was Jill who did the dumping, not Chuck. She may have made a mistake, it may have been because of some personal issues that Jill had. What I am saying though is that I would like to see Jill show up wanting to get back together with Chuck and Chuck is not interested. He can give her the old "let's be friends" bit, but that he has moved on and found someone else. If she shows up but has a good reason for why she dumped him so she is really a good person and now Chuck has to choose between her and Sarah, then it seems to me that is basically the same story that happened between Bryce and Sarah. Add to that if Chuck has think about who he wants to be with then he isn't really that hung up on either one of them. By the time the next season starts he will have been with Sarah for nearly a year and away from Jill for 5 or 6. If that isn't enough time for him to determine who he would really like to be with then maybe he should do both women a favor and keep away from both of them.

h-m-m, good points rfi. And yea, I hate to say it, but Chuck, especially young Chuck, may've been the type to put up w/ a girl who isn't as, well, devoted as he was. And yea, much as I still like the little buddy Morgan (I know he's not exactly your hero!), I admit Morgan is a lot to put up w/. So chuck does have this Mr nice-guy habit of putting up w/ people who are less than perfect. And yea, I agree that was Sara: he was definitely calling her, trying to win her back, thus the reference to "just like old times." But the break up is, to me, still a mystery. We really don't know if Bryce's machinations were involved or who Jill really was. Remember that bryce practically set them up in the first place. I just feel like there is more to the story.

Well Chuck wants something real. By the end of the Crown Vic episode the "cat and mouse" game became pretty wearisome...thus Chuck brought it back to a friendship. Sarah was clearly reeling from the Bryce incident, which who wouldn't have?!

But regardless of what people think happened in the Marlen episode, Sarah has yet to answer the question of being real! If Chuck get's another opportunity with someone like Jill who no doubtedly has matured over the years herself, and Sarah is still playing "hiding behind her work" game...Chuck will have to think seriously about moving on.

We all know (at least in theory) what is going to happen. But I am of the firm belief that it is going to take "stress and drama" which I will term "strama" to drive Sarah forward into a "real" relationship with Chuck.

The problem with moving on and hooking up with Jill is that at the time when Chuck was at his lowest Jill dumped him. It may partially his fault, it may be that Jill had other issues, it may be that there are factors that we are unaware of, but the fact remains that she dumped him, and that would always be in the back of his mind. If things ever got rough again would she take off? If she found out about the Intersect would she dump him because she didn't want to get involved with all of the potential problems? If Chuck wanted to give up on Sarah I think that it would make allot more sense to go back to Lou. She's good looking, has a good personality, and most importantly, she owns a deli.

AAHHH Yes the deli girl...If I were Chuck...I'm not sure I would have let go of the deli girl to begin with...but that is me. The whole issue of the "other woman" (whether that be Jill, Lou, or someone new) has more to deal with Sarah stepping up to the plate. If Sarah were to take noticable relational steps towards Chuck there would be no "other woman". In my opinion, Sarah is the one pushing Chuck into other relationships.

if i was chuck i would date the deli girl and other girl to make Sarah mad and jealous then i would laugh at her. i am really mean. but sadly Chuck is to nice and loves Sarah too much so that would never happen.

Chuck wouldn't hook up with Jill; he has devoted himself to Sarah, pretty much. Some feelings might resurface for Jill, and there will more than likely be a kiss which Sarah sees, but they won't get together, and I hope Chuck will get some closure out of that part of his life, and hopefully, Jill and Chuck can be friends again.

Many are not taking into account that Chuck is determined to live in the real world despite the whole intersect spy thing, and if Sarah refuses to make in-roads into Chuck's real world...he will walk away from her. I see the Lou incident as evidence of that. Another thing...people are saying that they are "soul-mates" of which I would disagree. Chuck is the only one that has beared his soul. Sarah has benefited by Chuck doing that...and has probably become a softer person...but in order for them to be true "soul-mates" she will have to become a little more transparent about her life. Is there a risk? Absolutely!! But she will have to measure that to see if it is worth it.

Chuck wants a real relationship! And who can blame him?! He is in his mid-twenties and feels his biological clock ticking.

No doubt that Sarah has given him self confidence to try again...we will have to wait and see.

I'm not sure that the Lou thing is a good example. Chuck was under the impression that Sarah did not have any feelings for him. Once that he discovered that she did he wanted to get back together with her. I think that he does want a real relationship but he wants one with Sarah. I think that the rooftop scene in the last episode would give him more hope then the kiss in the Imported Salami scene. As for having children, I believe that Chuck is young enough so that is not a major influence on his decision making. Although Sarah has mentioned having kids, Chuck never has. Right now Chuck seems to be more concerned with getting together with Sarah. How or if this happens I think would depend on how patient and how determined he is. Some of the spoilers floating around leaves me to believe that Chuck is in love with Sarah, at least according to Casey.

i think that chuck is still young and he doesn't think about this stuff because Sarah spends all her time killing people and chuck doesn't(but he does in call of duty). so chuck doesn't think about his future like kids and a family but Sarah on the other is a girl and girl think of those thing. plus i bet she get bored of faking a relationship and want a real want to have a family. even though Sarah is a agent she is still like every women out there. it's just the her job is a lifestyle for her and that she can die any seconde of her life. But she is still thinks like every other women out there.

It seems to me that if Sarah was being totally professional she would have already asked to be reassigned when she realized that Chuck was serious about how he felt about her. The fact that she hasn't would have to lead Chuck to the conclusion that she has feelings for him too. Since that seems to be the case, I see what Jherb is saying. She either needs to step up to the plate or bow out. I could understand Chuck getting so frustrated by the "stuck in limbo" relationship that he and Sarah have that he starts seeing someone else just to get some kind of reaction.

Step up to the plate or bow out? Are you serious? Do I need to remind you of all the emotional problems Sarah is going through right now? Chuck is patent, and realizes what she is going through, and we need to realize that as well.

At what point does it go from being patient to being stupid? After 1 year? Five years? 20 years? At some time Sarah is either going to have to overcome her emotional problems and let Chuck know how she feels or she needs to leave and let Chuck get on with his life. She doesn't have to become Oprah over night but she could start showing affection and letting Chuck know that she does care and would like to become a real and not a "different" kind of couple. A couple with a possible long term future. If she is unwilling to do this but still stays with the girlfriend cover then all she is doing is showing concern for her own feelings and none for Chuck's. I guess that what I'm saying is that as the writers drag it out between Sarah and Chuck and there is no progress, at some point Sarah's actions or inactions start to look worse and worse.