Rick you've got it right!! Everybody sees that there is something going on under the undercover thing. Check that...maybe Sarah thinks she is doing a good job keeping it all covered

We all agree that Sarah is realing from the turn of events (concerning her love life) that has effected her ability to confront her feelings for Chuck! Well...she could at least say that!!

I've stated this before but I believe it bears repeating, I see the Crown Vic episode as being pivotal in her ability (or inability as the case may be) to control her own emotions. She really tried to put Chuck in his place by calling him a job or work. Chuck couldn't make the adjustment...and of course we know what happened. When she tried to confront him that night in Chuck's apt, Chuck was easily able to turn the table on her! You could see she got REAL uncomfortable when she saw the argument going south...calling the kiss a "mistake one that will never happen again"...was her best attempt to save face!

Sarah Walker is a very prideful person...one that doesn't easily like to admit when she is wrong. Again you can see her attempt to build a bridge back to Chuck at the Christmas party. But Chuck had to be the one to go the extra mile by offering her the "hand of friendship". I''m not sure she expected that...but I am sure she was relieved when it happened.

I too have always thought that the Crown Vic was a pivotal episode. My slant on it was that when Sarah didn't leave with Bryce on the Nemesis episode she realized how strong her feelings were and she tried to compensate for them by acting strictly professional. Chuck really snapped her out of that line of thinking at his apartment. It seemed to me that when Chuck shook hands with Sarah at the Christmas party he was more or less saying that he was patient and would give her the time she needed and by shaking his hand and by them prolonging the hand holding she was showing that she was going to slowly give it a chance.

I think Sarah was ready to go for it all at the end of the Crown Vic, till Chuck threw out the friend card.

You could be right (about this). She did seem surprised when he stuck his hand out and said friends. She also seemed a little surprised or maybe even disappointed when Jeff held up the mistletoe and instead of kissing her Chuck said "let's dance".

Or Chuck needs to decide he's had enough and get over it. This one isn't all on Sarah: Chuck's already shown once that he's willing to "dump" Sarah and move on to another woman.

Or he can develop a thicker skin.

Chuck has options, too. This one isn't all on Sarah.



Why can't she just be doing her job? Sarah is being paid to protect Chuck and the Intersect. Choosing career / duty over romance is a legitimate, and many would argue responsible, choice. After all, what happens in a non-idealized world if Agent Sarah dates asset Chuck and it blows up. If the net result the endangerment or even loss of the asset, Agent Sarah gets punished, and rightfully so.

While there is an argument that Sarah needs to leave town if she suspects Chuck's feelings for her (or vice versa) could compromise the team's effectiveness, one gives up the right to that argument when the other potential outcome is the two of them dating, which would also compromise the team's effectiveness.

If the girlfriend cover is necessary to protect him and allow him to live his life with his family and friends, Chuck has little room to complain. He doesn't get to, in the words of the show, choose a handler from the CIA Xmas Catalog.

Yes, there's a back-and-forth that can happen here. Chuck isn't being paid for his efforts / risk, he didn't ask for any of this, etc. However, most people in that line of work, including Casey and Beckman and Graham and even Sarah, would trade one life, even Chuck's, if it meant saving lots of others. They might think it sucks, but they would make that trade. So if they instead ask Chuck to suck up and deal with having Sarah around, that's a pretty reasonable alternative.

Chuck is not the professional, she is. If he has developed strong feelings for her then as a professional she should ask to be replaced by someone who Chuck does not have feelings for. If she stays knowing how he feels then she is not only jeopardizing the mission but she is causing emotional damage to Chuck. What ever happened to the promise she made to Casey that she would talk to Chuck and if she couldn't straighten things out she would ask to be reassigned? She is the one who has to make a decision. Either she is going to stay and become involved with Chuck risking her career, or ask for reassignment, securing her career but forfeiting any involvement with Chuck. Another option she could try is due to the unique situation ask permission from her superiors to become emotionally involved with Chuck. As it is now she wants both worlds with Chuck being the one who will eventually pay the consequences.

At this point, looking at it from a more objective (non-charah) point of view:
1. Jill might have been a good thing for Chuck but something could have occurred to break them up but that does not mean Jill is evil or the relationship wouldn't have worked, regardless of what has been said by Chuck, his family or friends. They are basing info on what Chuck has said. He can make mistakes too. For that matter so can Jill.

2. Sarah wants to protect Chuck by the end of Ep 13, not because its her job, but because she has feelings for him. Her job just happens to coincide with that objective.

3. Sarah would like to have a relationship, but Chuck could simply be the closest choice right now. Unfortunately, she is compromising her job if she goes that route.

4. Any relationship will affect her job. Period. If she wanted to maintain professionalism, she wouldn't have even been interested.

5. Sarah can ask for reassignment, but she already knows it would affect other missions (see #4) AND she would lose out on what little bits of emotions she feeds off of Chuck.

6. Chuck is a freaking VICTIM of the situation. He does make mistakes, but there is no mistaking
- he is confused (relationship wise) because of her actions, not his
- he does have the Intersect in his head and is being forced/threatened/blackmailed/extorted/whatever to help them or there will be consequences that are not conducive to his living
- he has not, nor is he likely to receive any compensation for his unwilling participation
- they will kill him if they think they can't control, hold on to or need him.

All in all, Jill may have been the best thing in his life, and lost due to mistakes made, but the Intersect and Sarah may be the worst thing in his life. This could worst thing could be magnified exponentially if she turns on him or strings him along for years.

CC....the intersect tribulation that Chuck finds himself in has really begun to work towards Chuck's good. For the first time in a long time....strong character has begun to take shape which in turn has created a perserverance....which can lead to hope. The same could be said for Sarah on a different plain...as her character seems to be changing as well.

How this translates towards their future really is up to them. What I am hoping is that in season 2 Chuck takes more of a lead in "team Chuck" and in his relationship with Sarah. Chuck has proven (at least on a small scale) that he can be a good strategist. And on the relationship front...it is clear that Sarah has no idea what to do...so if Chuck doesn't take some leadership in this ...they are going to continue to chase their tales...and both will be hurt by the outcome.

^ jherb I think your anology is right on and CC you are right chuck is a victim of all this. As a result I don't think anybody feels as bad or guilty about whats happened to chuck more than sarah. She determined to help make it right or at least try to minimize its impact on chucks life.

But in the process sarah been seduced to the bright side of chucks normal life. And the part of her that wants to embrace this life will not go away quietly. This new light is indeed something sarah has either not figured out or has forgotten how to handle. Chuck needs to take the lead and continue to help sarah understand and except it (if she really wants to) at a level that satisfies them both.

^^^
Chuck can't take the lead of anything unless several things happen.
1. Casey has to let him take the lead or just accept strategic contributions from Chuck, not just intel from the intersect. (Casey has listened to him on some occasions so this shouldn't be a stretch although team leader would be.)

2. Sarah has to admit to a relationship with Chuck. If she doesn't he isn't going to be able to do anything more than be a friend.

3. Sarah has to let Chuck take charge of the relationship once it has been admitted.

4. If Chuck does find out anything that would put Jill in a better light (CIA broke them up, etc) than that would immediately cast negative feelings towards Sarah in relation to her job.

5. None of the above addresses what the CIA/NSA would think of a real relationship either. They might find it ok, but they sure as heck aren't going to want Chuck in charge of the relationship. They would want Sarah to lead him around by the nose to ensure maximum control.

Overall, if they can't get past item 2, then 3 is a no go.

Btw, even if they did get involved in Season 2, then Season 3 would be a good time for the writers to jump on point 4 as it would toss in a huge roadblock. Even more if you find out Sarah was at least partially involved with the situation albeit not directly.

^item 5 has a very serious impact om item 2 and 3. Assuming sarah/chuck would be willing to get emotionally involved why would sarah, and for that fact, chuck want to persue an emotional involvement if whats ends up happening is sarah getting reassigned and chuck shipped off to a secure underground facility. I think these issues will need to be resolved first.

Item 1 is important as well. Without casey support it will be difficult for any form of sarah/chuck relationship.

Sarah is not going to get to item 2 on her own. The point I was trying to make earlier is that chuck is going to need to help her. sarah has to point not initiated anything on her own in regards to this hopeful relationship. Chucks done all the talking and prodding forcing sarah to take action. Granted these actions have not always been favorable for chuck either.CC you are correct, in that sarah going to want a relationship. I can see item 3 going either way.

Wow Rick, we agree!

No, her body language there spoke volumes, I thought. I might have to go rewatch that...

I've rewatched that episode and see it differently than you. I felt Sarah was opening up a little bit by talking about her failed attempt at relationships (ie Bryce) but Chuck really took control of that conversation by driving the friendship aspect. I don't think she was hoping for anything more...especially since her conversation with Casey after their spanking by their superiors. If she was hoping for a different outcome...she would have diverted the conversation where they could be alone. Casey was there! He could have easily pegged her for going back on her word. The handshake was a good gesture for her since she told Casey should would fix things. I think if Chuck would have pressed her for more of a commitment it would have backfired on him....BIG time!

As far as the kiss...she could have easily billed that for "solidifying her cover". But our buddy Chuck was smart for not letting it happen.

That is my take on the situation.

jherb, I would take it from a slightly different bend then your interpretation.
Her body language suggested she wanted more, but based on the environment, recent occurences and statements, including relative range to Casey, Chuck was smart enough to go the friends route as an acceptable medium to base the relationship on.

Besides, its always better to be a friend to someone before you jump in bed. You get to learn their likes/dislikes before committing to more. This can be a positive in Chuck's case as she *might* open up and give him more info on what kind of person she really is.

(OT: Something that is pretty much lacking into today's social environment. Hence the massive divorce rate in the first few years of marriage.)

I saw that she went in there unsure of how she was going to do it, and expected Chuck to initiate it, as he had done previously, and then he didn't, and offered the friend compromise, and she chickened out and took it.

It could also be that after the way she had treated him she was a little afraid that Chuck would take her at her word and treat her in a strictly professional way.

Yep...she turned on the charm in that closing scene. In one way...it must have been tough not to rub it in her face (speaking the truth about the flash). Up to this point he has yet to lie to her...whereas she has not done well in communicating the truth.

There is no doubt that she wants more out of this relationship but I honestly believe she doesn't know how to get there. I see that this relationship is up to Chuck to move it off ground zero.

I agree, she wants to get there but doesn't know how. The only time she made a big move was when both of them thought they were going to die and after Chuck closed his eyes she jumped him and started the kiss sequence.

I think you may be overlooking the rooftop scene there. That was pretty telling, but then, she was pushed into it.

Yeah, Chuck should have stood his ground a little better there at the Buy More. If anything, she should have apologized to him for her "fake flash" insinuation. But Chuck came up with that lame "you believed in me when you had reason not to" line. He didn't have to rub her face in it, but he should have gently reminded her that he didn't fake anything...before he called for the "friends" truce.

Shiri Appleby was wonderful in Roswell and would make a great Jill.

Who ever they get to play Jill it is going to fun to watch her and Sarah butt heads. They probably won't have a physical confrontation but I bet they both get pretty catty.

It would be interesting if the way Chuck and Jill are reunited is if Jill is injured, and dying; I think that would work on many levels...

I have 2 thoughts that on how Jill will make her appearance to the show. The first is she shows up at the Buy More acting like she is doing Chuck a big favor by taking him back. The other is that she is at a social function bemoaning how miserable her love life is and how she made a big mistake dumping a guy in college and in walks Sarah and Chuck. If either one happens you can be sure of one thing, Sarah will not be happy about it.

Rick, I see the second scenerio being the more likely situation. Especially if Chuck in undercover and he runs into Jill. That could be very comical, especially if Sarah is hanging off his arm.

You see Chuck take a big GULP and his eyes light up when he sees Jill...similar to when he saw Lou. Sarah is looking at him trying to find a way to get his focus back. That whole scenerio could be very funny and add suspense at the same time.

With the way that they left things at the end of the season, I don't think Sarah would tolerate Jill messing with Chuck no matter what her intentions .

Sarah will protect her asset on both a job and personal level. Jill hurt him and Sarah would do her best to make sure it doesn't happen again.

I don't think that Sarah would put up with Jill hitting on Chuck, and I hope that Chuck won't either. I would like to see Chuck and Sarah pull up to a social event in a hot car, Chuck wearing a Tux and Sarah wearing an evening gown that makes her look even hotter in the car. Jill sees them and immediately gets jealous and decides that she would like to get Chuck back. Chuck looks at her, looks at Sarah, and wonders what he ever saw in Jill. Sarah looks at Chuck, looks at Jill, and thinks that if Jill tries to take her man she is going to give Jill a quick class on unarmed combat. In other words, I hope that Sarah and Chuck are so secure in their relationship that no one else can drive a wedge between them.

Your asking alot Rick...especially in this stage in the game.

Yeah Rick, I don't think so.

I think at first, Chuck would be receptive to Jill's advances.

I said I would like to see it, not that I thought that I would. As for Chuck being receptive to Jill's advances, I guess that would mean that he is not that serious about Sarah. That being the case, if Jill shows up Chuck should tell Sarah that their "fake" relationship is going to have a "fake" breakup again and then he can get serious with Jill. It would probably be nice for him to have someone actually say that they wanted him. Sarah could take her emotional theatrics and stand across the parking lot looking forlorn and lonely.

Well....here is a question for you....Did they ever have a "fake" get back together? I would say....no! Friends...!! Yea!! Boyfriend...girlfriend...I don't remember seeing it.

You're right! They're just buddies! If Sarah has problems with Chuck getting back with Jill it's her tough luck. She had her chance and just wanted to play mind games. After Lou you would think that she learned her lesson.

This couple never takes the easy route. They find the toughest means of getting to the desired end and exagerates it times ten!!

UGGHHH!!

They never did formally put them back together but it doesn't matter. Ellie thought they were together when she wanted to talk to Sarah about Chuck in Undercover Lover.
Both Sarah and Morgan thought that Chuck had gotten the ring for Sarah.

Their BF/GF cover is working great. It doesn't matter what the intent is.

I think it is funny that Sarah doesn't know that Ellie thought Chuck and Sarah were about to get engaged. I don't think she would be amused.

You mean they are still fooling people with there undercover BF/GF...well maybe so from the outside...but if they are going to be truly believable they will have to do a better job "selling it" (as Sarah commonly likes to put it). Chuck kissed Sarah publicly once at his house in the Tango episode (if you want to call that a kiss in public). You don't see them hugging even hardly touching each other. Awesome confronted them on not sleeping together...but they don't even try to hug each other let alone get intimate. There is a natural progression of things.

What I am trying to get at is....they are not making this cover relationship realistic. For the life of me, I can't figure out why Ellie has not grilled Sarah or at least prodded a little bit about where she (Sarah) is at? Ellie seems to be a very protective sister...especially in light of the whole Jill thing (Chuck being hurt). Ellie seems to like Sarah...but I would like the writers to flesh that relationship (between Ellie and Sarah) out a little better. We'll see!

Chuck was not kidding when he said he had a problem with PDA. For all we know his relationship with Jill did not seem any different than his fake relationship with Sarah to Ellie and Morgan.

Sarah was always the one with the little touches that soft sold the cover. She may have sold it harder ifg Chuck had reacted differently.

In any case, either a solid dating or a solid living together cover will be established before they could bring in Jill.

If Sarah tries to warn Jill off (or threaten) she may find that Ellie has already done the job for her.

Ellie seems to see something in Sarah that would keep her from equating Sarah with Jill. Of course Ellie thinks Casey is sweet.

Sorry Overdumb...I don't buy it. Chuck had no problems kissing Lou in front of her employees! No...He will be comfortable with pda once he is comfortable with understanding his boundaries. Clearly he is not comfortable with "fake"...he wants "real".

If Jill does return Sarah may do nothing more then give her some dirty looks, or maybe a little verbal exchange. On the other hand I can see Ellie really ripping in to Jill and telling her that Sarah is much better for Chuck and to leave Chuck alone. Morgan might finally be worth something and pull some nasty tricks on Jill. He might even get Anna, Jeff, and Lester to lend a hand. Of course if Casey takes a dislike to Jill and decides to help Sarah things could get real ugly.

Heres a twist...Casey falls for Jill!

That would be a twist and it could be really funny.

Yeah, THAT would be funny.
As long as no stabbing would be involved.

But you think that Casey's over Ilsa already?

Both Sarah and Casey falling for geeks!

Uhh, how about Jill comes back after Sarah and Chuck are actually together.

- She tells him Bryce seduced her and provided all kinds of proof Chuck was bad.

- She tells him the she found out Bryce was working for the government and lied to her the whole time. He didn't love her, he was just using the relationship to keep her from Chuck. He told her she couldn't say anything. She didn't find out he was dead until very recently.

- She tells Ellie the same information. Matter of fact he left her for some blond he was going to be working with just after she found out. She tried following him but he always sneaked away, but she did accidentally see him with a woman once. A blond woman. Then Sarah walks in with Chuck to visit and she says "OMG HER! Thats the woman with Bryce."

Yes...CC...that is a new twist I hadn't thought of. That would be real interesting!

I like that a lot. It's never made sense to me that Sarah, having been in love with Bryce, wasn't aware of Chuck or Jill.

What if Bryce returns and Sarah makes it plain that she wants nothing to do with him and that she is with Chuck now. Bryce has some kind of connection with Jill and talks her into finding Chuck and trying to get back together with him in order to break up the Sarah and Chuck relationship.

Rick, I think Bryce coul become vandictive...by notifying her superiours...she needs to be more covert on how she puts Bryce off. I don't think she can afford to reveal her feelings for Chuck. Bryce is to much of a wildcard.

Exactly, if she's decided in her mind that she wants to be with Chuck and nobody else, she's going to have come up with some other reason for rejecting Larkin's advances. It's too risky to let Bryce know about her desire for Chuck...if, in fact, she feels that way. She could always use the same excuse she gave in Nemesis, that Chuck is her assignment and that's that. Of course, Bryce could reply that he's been given the authority to get her assigned to him. Oops! What now, Sarah?

I would think that allot would depend on how big of ego Bryce has. He could think that eventually Sarah will "come to her senses" and dump Chuck to come back to him. If that is the case he would not tell her superiors because then she would never come back to him. Also, it could be that Sarah believes that he wouldn't tell.

What I want to happen is somewhat similar to what happened with Lou. Jill comes back and even if Chuck and Sarah are "together", Chuck and Jill will sort of have chemistry. It will last pretty long, and we'll continue to see how Sarah would react each time Jill comes around..


something like that, I just really liked how Sarah got so jealous when Lou was around, and I really want that to happen again.. But, that's just me though:)