Just like Michael and Dwight, I was all ready to hate the new HR person. It's been my experience in the real world of business, that Human resources people are neither human nor resourceful. But Holly - what a pleasant surprise!

Michaels first impression is that Toby thinks she'll be great, so from Michaels point of view, that's a strike against her. He also thinks she has a weird head, and immediately decides that a good hazing is what she needs.

At their first meeting, Michael immediately begins talking to her in the same condescending way that he always has to Toby, telling Holly that her job is to make the office lame. She smiles politely and mentions someone doesn't like HR, and turns to Toby asking what he did to Michael. Next she sides with Michael saying she almost fell asleep when Toby gave her a tour of the files, and says she looks forward to working with him, calling him Mr. Scott. Wow - such respect!

Michael, intrigued, tries a few of his jokes on her over by accounting. She grins at his mixup of hanging Holly (mistletoe) from the ceiling, and laughs and groans at his Hollygram joke. She also accepts his offer of a mixed CD with gratitude.

Michael now confesses to Jim that he loves Holly "at first see with my ears." Jim gives Michael courting tips, and talks to him about getting to know someone before moving forward too quickly.

Now comes the pivotal scene where Michael seeks her out, finding her on the floor with her chair. When she cleverly makes a comeback to his Yoda joke, "Pass curvy metal piece you will," Michael catches his breath before handing it to her. He almost asks her out, but, remembering his conversation with Jim, he stops himself. She matches him with a Michael inappropriate joke by saying he will miss her orgy. When they both emote, Acting!" and she says, "Lovitz," suddenly you realize she is The One.

Holly is The One who gets him, who not only understands his humor, but enjoys it, feeds off of it, and returns it. You see a whole new would of possibilities for a love for Michael that is actually good for him, he is laying a base and is on Cloud 9.

In Toby's exit interview, She seems helpful when she offers the binder to Michael, and seems impressed when Michael gives Toby his watch.

She comforts him when he finds out about Ryan's arrest.

I love on the ferris wheel ride, Holly, telling Michael about her previous job, say, "It was easy to get in, but impossible to rise up," We all knew it was coming - but he stopped himself. He's shown her quite a bit of himself, but maybe he realizes that twss isn't that funny during a serious conversation? That there are times to be serious and funny?

She drives a convertible, and yeah, I bet it's a Seabring. And Michael announces to everyone that Holly is the best thing that's happened to Dunder Mifflin since WWII. She thanks him, and touches his arm - for a looooong tim.

She compliments his song parody, and requests Beers in Heaven in the future. He gets the Kevin call, he tells her not to move a muscle - and she doesn't - looking like the Tin Man. So, it really seems like Holly and Michael really do share the same sense of humor.

And then the Train Wreck. Just when you thought it was safe for Michael to move forward. Holly says she's still hungry and Michael parries her implied offer by recommending a diner, and she gets to have pie with Slow Kevin.

Michael seemingly meets the woman of his dreams, and gets his dream smashed to pieces.

So is Holly really the woman of Michael's dreams? It's highly possible that Holly has been forewarned about Michael, that she's a great actress and she's putting Michael on. Is she a fake or the real deal?

Discuss.

First off, let me say thank you Veebs for creating this thread . I became a Milly supporter even before the episode even ended.

As for the feelings that Holly have for Michael, I believe their genuine. Since anything is possible on the show Holly could have been told to play along with Michael. However, I think the look she gave him at the end along with the talking head gave her feelings away. She could deny it all she wants but the look that was in her eyes gave it away. That was by far the most intimate moment they had in the episode, even if it wasn't shared.

It's nice for Michael to finally find someone who supports who he is instead of having someone who is pushing him to grow up. He needs to be with someone who can understand & accept his wacky & sometimes immature personality, & Holly is just the person. I saw that she was comfortable around him & that acting like him came at ease. It didn't seem forced & it didn't seem like she was doing that to win his acceptance. They're natural & comfortable with each other & themselves.

I think Holly may bring out the different side of Michael. I think she'll bring out the warmth, kindness & affection that he has buried beneath his multi-personality. At the same time, she'll let him become who he is because she accepts him as who is he. She likes him because she's attracted to the person Michael is & she knows she'll never have to change him because of that. Meanwhile, I see Michael partly growing up for her.

If the writers slowly develop their relationship I think it came become something really sweet .

Nice breakdown, Veebs. Very nice.

This is tough. If Holly is "Acting!", she's doing a da** good job. If they warned her about Michael, it seems that they'd at least give her an overview of the rest of the staff, including Kevin.

In Michael's office with Toby, she quickly found a way to diffuse the situation and gain Michael's trust (and his "love"). She seems professional, yet genuinely compassionate. But in contrast, she's the HR rep, fer cryin' out loud, which makes any romantic attraction to Michael doubly inappropriate, especially on her first day.

She brought out the best in Michael, if only for a moment. The TWSS scene on the Ferris Wheel was especially revealing. Michael wanted to enjoy a serious conversation with Holly and for once understood that his joke would be out of place.

If she's truly attracted to Michael, she's got a tough adversary in Jan. Jan is still playing her sick games with Michael, and Jan has something he desperately wants, even if it's not really his.

Holly is an enigma. I can't wait to get to know her better! In fact, I think the Holly/Michael storyline is a much better cliffhanger than JAM.

I think Holly started off trying to get on Michael's good side but ended up actually liking him by the end in spite of herself. When they were introduced it seemed to me like her dig at Toby almost putting her to sleep was an ingenious tactic to get on Michael's good side. But by the end of the episode she was definitely disappointed that he didn't want to go do get dessert with her. I like Holly and Michael together. She makes him a better him. I thought it was so cute when he was all excited after their floor conversation and he was talking with Jim (Jim even had to snap his fingers to regain Michael's attention). And nothing is more impressive than Michael sustaining a TWSS.

Jan and Michael = funny
Holly and Michael = a potentially healthy relationship (which he desperately needs)

I don't even think Michael and Jan are that funny anymore. She makes him sleep on a bench!

Holly had me when she spoke back to Michael in a Yoda voice. I loved her just as much as Michael, lol!

MILLY? Dang it, I just made a poll in the HR section for MOLLY (Michael + Holly)!

People, we've got to get some standardization on these (relation)ship anagrams.

JAM = universal. Makes sense JiM + pAM = JAM. Also known as PB&J (Pam Beesly and Jim)

DWANGELA = universal. Although DWINGELA would have been more equitable, more letters for Dwight.

JACKAL = easiest phonetic version (and appropriate imagery). Started out as JICHAEL, JACHAEL or even MAN (blech).

KYAN = Much better than RELLY.

PHLOB = No explanation necessary.

So MILLY or MOLLY? One the one hand, you've got the Milli Vanilli joke ready. On the other hand, you get to reference "Hello Dolly".

Do we need another poll on this?

The Mods can edit your poll to change the name to Milly. Let me know!

Okay...Michael and the rest of the office had only met Holly once so far, and vice versa. Sure, Michael did get all hyperactive over the idea of asking Holly out, and she did look quite disappointed that he turned down her invitation to dessert. Nevertheless, like us the audience , Holly and Michael have yet to notice each other's setbacks and flaws and determine whether or not that'll affect their potential attraction. Moreover, Michael needs to check who's the "father" of Jan's baby. For all we know, Jan could have lied to him about the paternity or yada.

One more thing (courtesy of Jackie Chan Adventures ): I wouldn't say the Holly/Michael storyline is much of a cliffhanger itself.



Again, let's not jump to conclusions about MOLLY (Holly + Michael = MOLLYship). We still need to know more about Holly herself.

Maybe these are both inside jokes?. . . . I always wanted to be part of one. Please explain.

Let's see here. The writers of The Office have given us a relationship showing two people who have such natural chemistry, who seem to really "get" each other, who give each other longing glances (asynchronous though they might be), and yet, despite what seems to be a "match made in heaven," there is now a circumstance that is making the consummation of these feelings impossible or at least inappropriate.

It seems like the writers have done this to us before, but I'm scratching my head trying to remember where. Can someone help me out here?

Hmmmmm . . . . those similiarities struck me too. I can not wait to make comparisons. Really, who thought Michael had a soul mate? And having Jan go to a sperm bank to conceive while she was with Michael was all the permission we needed to turn our hopes to someone else. Of course all the while we'll be watching Michael being drawn to that baby. . . .

You're talking about David Wallace & Jim, am I right? David + Jim = DIM

Yah, I always thought "shoot some hoops" was code for something.

I don't think it matters too much what the paternity is, Michael wants to be a daddy and is willing to be the daddy of that child no matter whose it is. It would only make him happier if it was his child.

Exactly!!! I always loved Jan, but was very disappointed by her behavior in Dinner Party. I really wanted things to work out for them, because I thought they were both just nuts enough to make their relationship work. But now we meet Holly, who may actually bring out the best in Michael, and help him grow as an individual, not only personally, but professionally as well. Who knew???

nice post O. It is funny isn't to see that with all of michaels flaws, that someone seems to be honestly attracted to that. That look she gave michael when she left in kevins car, oh I was feeling so bad for holly. I totally like this girl! you could tell she just wanted to spend more time with michael and not because he's the boss but that she thinks he's cute and funny and he took a shine to her right away.
This game of love tag between holly and michael is so great.

You guys, I'm so with you. Actually, I'm confused. Because I really really like Holly. And like some of you, I really wanted Jan and Michael to work. They seemed like they needed each other. Like they were going to balance each other out somehow. Jan would bring Michael down a notch and Michael would help Jan live a little. But Jan never seemed to see and appreciate Michael for who he is and continued to put him down, even when she was complimenting him. Still, I was hoping that one day she would wake up.

Then along comes Holly and it all seems easy and making it all seem like Jan is too much work. Holly doesn't have to work at liking or realize that she likes Michael. Michael doesn't have to prove his worth to her. She appreciates him now. And it's really sweet and beautiful. And there's something to be said about how she'll never intentionally hurt Michael.

I'm so torn between these two women. I used to care about Jan, so I still want personal growth from her and I want Michael to be the one to do it. But I also think that Michael deserves a Holly.

I love Michael. I love his social clumsiness, his immaturity, and the isolated moments of clarity and competence that suddenly appear in the midst of it. Up until recently I've even appreciated his neediness. But in Goodbye, Toby that neediness went to a level that I can do without. We know he desperately wants a family, but what he is allowing Jan to do to him makes me sad. Whether Jan's baby is his or not, this whole experience will be marred by deception and manipulation.

Michael can't grow up too much, or he just wouldn't be.....Michael. What I've seen in Holly so far is someone who will embrace Michael's quirks and allow him to be himself without abusing his vulnerabilities. She can make him feel more comfortable and accepted, and genuinely cared for. Jan's gone too far off the edge. She'll never be able to do that for him.

I know. Clearly the stress of The Deposition built and expanded until it finally exploded in Dinner Party but that episode left so much hope that even with everything they would make it work. The scene in the cafeteria especially. But who knows. Holly only knew Michael for one day so... but then I think about it some more and what Michael really needed was a clean slate, someone who doesn't already know him and how he can be. Someone who doesn't already have notions about what he's going to be like in mind.

Jan and Michael's ill-compatibility started way before The Deposition. I think we got the first feel of it in Cocktails and Women's Appreciation. We saw the softer side of their relationship in Money, but their biggest problems seem to be about sex.

Taping sex to critique it with her shrink? Making Michael where a school girl's uniform. Not allowing Michael to touch her? I wonder what Mr. Gould was like. If he was as "adventurous" or whatever like Jan is in the bedroom.

Michael likes to joke about things, but when it comes down to it, he wants the tenderness. We know Holly will joke about those things too- but what is she really like?

I agree with you Bailey, Jan has always been showing issues and the relationship didn't even really get off to a good start. Even in the manner in which Jan got together with Michael (in Back From Vacation), she is greatly disturbed by what she is doing. She implies that he's one of her self-destructive tendencies, that she has to lower her expectations for Michael (though, she redeemed herself a little when she said she said maybe she had to re-define them altogether), she tells him that he is wrong for her in every way. This, at least to me, is not how you ask someone to be in a relationship with you. Unfortunately/Fortunately she was asking Michael.

I guess all along, I was hoping that Jan would re-define those expectations and. . .

figure out what it was that makes/made her want to be with him. (I think she might of confused her attraction with kinkiness. Maybe that's why she behaves like she did in the bedroom).


Anyway, back to Holly!



I do think that we have already seen signs of Holly's tenderness. I think she exhibits some for Kevin, even though those circumstances were special, she didn't avoid him and instead she tried to be helpful. She showed some compassion for how Michael felt about Ryan going to jail (she wasn't even freaked out about him crying in the least). Even the way she handled herself in the conference room during Toby's exit interview seemed softer to me. But more importantly, she touched Michaels arm in a very friendly way. She's not afraid to show a little affection. Michael needs that.

If Michael and Holly ever got together, I foresee ketchup fights, tickling and giggling. Maybe even that white picket fence.

I fear for holly and michael only because I worry that the only office relationship that is healthy is Jim and Pam's finally. everyone else, even though it works it's really screwed up. I'd like michael to be happy an Jam does not make him really happy

Come again? What do you mean?

^^I'm pretty sure she means Jan.

And yeah, I never really liked Jan & Michael together. She was just too mean to him. If he can find someone to be sweet to him, and so far Holly has been, then they deserve to be together.

With Michael and Jan they both keep regressing. It's sad when I look at their relationship and find myself thinking that Michael is the more mature more and more of the time. He needs a relationship in which he can grow. He needs a relationship in which the other person hasn't formed a negative opinion of him already. With Jan there was so much judgement going into it but with Holly he can start fresh. I hope that he gets to learn what a healthy relationship can be like, one where he doesn't have to sleep on a bench at the foot of the bed.

Yes, starting fresh with Holly, because she didn't work for Dunder Mifflin, so she has no previous opinion of Michael. Without prejudice, she can see him for who he really is.

Yes I meant Jan, you know my mis typings so well wedd



Let's hope then once she does veebs she likes him for him and not cause she's crazy like jan

Didn't he say sometimes he just wants to be cuddle?


True, but they could have two or three seasons of will-they-won't-they agnst that eventually leads nowhere . . .

^^^

MB, are you suggesting that Michael could pursue Holly for all those years (and perhaps she even pursues him a little), and their proposal could be stymied by Andy proposing to Kelly in the finale of the seventh season?

Scary thought - there will be a massive depression amongst the flans that they may never recover from!

I 'd like to see Michael actually be in love instead of being creepy and over bearing like he did with Carol and pushed through the ringer by Jan. He needs a soild relationship, writters do you hear me!

Who me??

Flans would be cuing up at ledges everywhere.

^^ it would be the first mass jumping of tv show fans . Tread carefullly writers and producers

Best. Thread. Ever.

Dude, it feels so good to be back on the boards.

So, the Summer is about half-way through, which means Season 5 is inching ever closer. I'm looking forward to finding out more about Holly next season, but I hope nothing involving her and Michael's potential relationship is pushed too hard at first. I want to get to know her better before I decide how I feel about them. Although, right now, I really like her, and I agree with pretty much everything everyone has said so far in this thread. In other words, September 25th needs to get here quick!

Thanks! Yeah, I can't wait to see what they do with Holly. And it will be interesting to see Michael attempting to use some gentlemanly self-restraint with Holly, since he has promised to 'be there' for Jan.

michael and holly are perfect for each other! i think michael has found the right person for him. they have like the exact same personality. they were sooo cute together on the ferris wheel at toby's goodbye party. i cant wait until the 5th season comes out! i want michael and holly's relationship to gradually grow and then it will be SO awesome!!

I completely agree! She accepts his personality "quarks", and she even has the same humor as he does, which is saying a lot. Moreover, she likes him and isn't embarrassed by him. I think Jan is ashamed that she sometimes is attracted to Michael, and Carol just couldn't understand Michael's odd behavior. But Holly gets him and his personality. I wish we could have heard what she said to Michael when he was sad about Ryan. It was so sweet how she was comforting him ! My favorite ships are always the ones bt/wn people who have distinct personalities, b/c when someone with a "unique" peronality finds a soulmate, it's extra special, in my opinion. (That's why I love Dwangela )

However, I'm a little worried for Milly for two reasons: 1. Obviously, b/c of Jan's baby and the fact that Michael is "kind of a daddy" and 2. b/c Holly is with HR, meaning that she probably will have to reprimand Michael's innapropriate behavior... so, that could get in the way of a relationship at first too. Nevertheless, I have high hopes for Michael/Holly and I think they would complement eachother wonderfully!

At the risk of repeating myself...

In the context of the show's timeline, Michael and Holly have known each other 1 entire day. Let's let her find her way around the building before we begin to micromanage her love life.

And while I'm at it...can we please stop with the stupid mashed-up names???

Succumb to the evil ways of the celebrity couple names. Brangelina, Bennifer, Dwangela, Jam.
"It's all guud." [/Michael]

I agree with Jazzman that we have a miniscule amount of information about Holly to be making any statements about her personality or ethics. I'm pretty sure that D&M's statements about her are accurate, but it's too soon to tell. I can't wait to see how their relationship plays out this season! Come on September 25th!!!!!

I have two questions:
1. What are you talking about (like the "Jam" "Milly" names?)?
2. Why do you have to go about stating your opinion so rudely? I've seen some of your other posts and you are always very rude... it's very unappealing




I know that. Right now, however, I am just speculating and presenting my predictions and opinions using the little information we do have. Once we see more of Holly, I'll be back to this thread to provide a more accurate anaysis of where her and Michael stand.


You said it Scotty!

1. Exactly. These are nonsensical, non-words, used only because they've been used before by media either desperate to create a 'hook' for their story to make it stand out from the reset of the drivel, or grossly underestimating the intelligence of their audience. Read Edwin Newman's book Plain Speaking to get an idea of the abominations perpetrated on the English language in the name of image. Or worse.

Let's ramp this up a bit. Steve Carell's wife's name is Nancy. Rainn Wilson's wife's name is Holiday. Mash those up... Stancy? Naeve? Roliday? And if (I say 'if' because I don't know) John Krasinski is dating Rashida Jones, are they Joshida? Or Rashohn? Here's a novel idea: how about calling them Rashida and John?

2. It's part of my charm - you'll get used to it... And I am not always rude - I can also be impudent, sardonic, officious, pedantic, and a whole lot of other things. But never, ever boring.

Enjoy...

I understand that I guess. I don't use them b/c I think they're "cute"; I only use them b/c they save me time (it's easier to write "Milly" than to write "Michael and Holly" especially when you're a slow typer like me ). Maybe I'm just lazy, or maybe I'm efficient, take your pick.



Okay, then I should let you know that part of my "charm" is oversensitivity, so sometimes things that are not personal attacks hurt my feelings (I'm such a dork ), so if I overreact to your comments, that's why... sorry

Let me add this just to stay on topic on the thread: I think Michael and Holly (I took the extra 10 seconds to write out their names just for you Jazzman ) could make a good couple

I'm pretty sure most of the celeb couple names we come up with on the boards come from our own Office-infused brains, and not from the media. Besides JAM, I haven't seen these names used anywhere else besides fan sites.


You'll get used to him.

That's when it gets boring.


. . . . I hope I wasn't too charming there . . .

I don't think you'll ever have to worry about charm...

No need to apologize. You are not oversensitive. You just expect a certain politeness from this board that not everyone has.



no, just maybe too subtle

Um...back on topic.

How do you think Holly will react to the whole "Michael and Jan" thing? It's pretty obvious that Holly likes Michael, but, again, she's only known him for one day (two months, in real time). And I'm sure she found out about the baby thing the next day at work, since Michael can never keep his mouth shut and he's obviously kind of excited about the whole thing. I just don't think Holly had enough time to really want to try a relationship with him, even though she definitely has a crush on him. She probably thought it would be best to not even get involved, even though she wants to. Maybe we have a new JAM situation on our hands? They want each other, but they can't have each other. Is Jan the new Roy? And how serious will Michael and Jan be this time around? Does Michael still love her, or does he just want a kid this badly?

okay, scotty


I agree. I thought Holly was scheming and sucking up to get in good with Michael (making fun of Toby in front of him was pretty rude). The fact that she would so quickly fall for Michael felt a little false and unbelievable to me. But after I watched it I realized that the writers were having to cram a new story arc: New HR person as Michael adversary, Holly discovering Michael's charms, Michael recognizing Holly as his soul mate, and then the Jan baby bomb, into one episode (because of the strike). I did love the scenes between them, I just wish they could have developed more slowly.

I think they will have go back and rebuild all that a little. Give us more scenes where Michael and Holly see themselves in each other.


I felt the same way, sammy. But I also wondered if Michael was actually scared more than needy. The idea of handling a real relationship with a mature, sane woman may have frightened him more than just being kind of a daddy.


good point, #2 will make for some very interesting story lines


I think Holly will see that there is more to Michael than she realized. Like sammy said, he has a neediness that borders on the obsessive. But Holly may also have that, since she seemed to fall for him in one day. I think she'll back off at first, but once she sees how Jan is using him, she'll decide to fight for him. But in sneaky ways. She's in HR, after all.
I do not think Michael is in love with Jan, or ever has been, really. I think he was attracted to her, and flattered by her attraction to him. I don't see him getting back together with her, he just wants to be a daddy.

They're not stupid. Play nice.


Yeah, what she said.


Not true, I made up Milly as soon as the episode ended. I have not seen ot in the media anywhere (although if I do, I hope to get credit for it).

Are you sure you don't mean Alfred E. Newman?




I'm not sure I believe that Holly has a crush on Michael. I think she's the kind of person that likes everyone, and tries to think the best of them. I don't think she realizes how much she 'gets' Michael yet. However, Michael is definitely smitten with her. I don't think, as an HR person, she will be reprimanding him much at all, because she actually brings out the best in him.

Note several changes in Michael's behavior, thank to Holly:
1. At Toby's exit interview, Michael held back from making a public scene how much he hated Toby. Holly pulls out the HR binder, showing Michael that there's a time for business and a time for personal feelings, and that you can separate the two.

2. On the ferris wheel, Holly was talking about leaving her former job, Holly, telling Michael about her previous job, says, "It was easy to get in, but impossible to rise up," We all knew it was coming
- but he stopped himself.
It was the first time he realized that maybe twss shouldn't be used for every occasion, that there is a time to be funny, but there is also a time to be respectful and to be a good listener.

3. Instead of people rolling their eyes at Michael's humor, Holly appreciates it, encourages it. Michael begins to realize that feedback is important, that maybe his humor has been in its own little Michael world, and should not be used unless it's appreciated. In other words, don't throw pearls to swine.

4. She makes him want to be a better person. He is fascinated by her, taken in by her, wants to know everything about her, and he is learning from her. Her comforting him about Ryan was genuine; Michael has perhaps never experienced anything genuine before from others, only a sad, slightly amused tolerance (karaoke, dead bird, Olympic medal, Dundies, Convention party in Michael's room, etc.).

Holly treats Michael like a human being, and maybe this is the first time in his life he is treated with respect, the respect that he deserves just for being a part of the human race. She doesn't treat him like a child, or a jerk, or an idiot, she treats him like a man. So Michael now wants to be a man.

In conclusion, I think Holly likes Michael, but she doesn't realize they're soul mates. Yet.

As for Michael and Jan - well, that whole thing deserves its own thread.

I assume you are referring to me. Contrary to what you may believe, I am polite and respectful. I do not denigate others, nor have I ever done so. However, if expressing opinions that do not always conform to those of the majority makes me impolite, than I am impolite and proud of it.

I think Holly is exactly what Michael needs.
IMO, Jam & Michael never actually worked out in any way, he was just together with her cause he's Michael, it's not like he was ever really happy when he was with her. I hope he realizes that.

Also, I think Holly is the only option to "normalize" Michael. If you think about the first episodes of season 4 and remember how Michael was back then, only someone like Holly might be able to change his behaviour for the better (in a more realistic one for the sake of the show).

I hope it'll work out!

Normalize? Is Michael a database?? Sorry, IT joke...

I don't believe that anyone can "change" someone's behaviour, at least not overtly, and certainly not over a short time. If Holly turns out to be someone with whom Michael feels comfortable pursuing a relationship, he may subtly alter some aspects of himself that Holly may not approve of. He will almost certainly not notice it. Note, however, that Holly has a bit of a Michael "streak", too. After all, she's the one who was sorry that Michael couldn't make it to the orgy she had planned (not really) for the end of her first day on the job.

Who knows? Maybe Michael will be a calming influence on Holly... Now that would be fun to watch...