I was just reading some of the posts about the Sami/Lucas/EJ triangle and I was really surprised to see how many people want EJ and Sami together. I know Lucas and Sami have both made a lot of mistakes but EJ raped Sami.... How do you forgive that especially being the victim and all. Personally I think Sami should have had him thrown in jail or at the very least have him deported. Now someone please tell me how a rapist AND attempted murder (he shot John) AND kidnapper (he had Steve kidnap John) is not only still not in jail, but is still a practicing attorney AND NOW is going to get custody of his son??? WTF I wouldn't want him raising my son either. I CAN NOT stand EJ DEMIRA!!! I think him and Nicole are great together, it keeps him away from Sami and they are both evil they deserve each other. I almost threw up when Lucas and Chloe were together I fast forwarded through it... I couldn't watch it.

No one has forgotten. Trust me this topic is a nasty can of worms. According today's show, John hasn't forgotten either. Methinks John has only begun to deal with EJ. The way John has been acting, EJ would be safer in prison.

I have a question! If you think EJ is such an evil rapist why would you want him with Nicole? Why is it ok for a "rapist" to be with any woman? So what is it, do you think EJ has been redeemed or you think it's ok for a rapist to be dating other women as long as it's not Sami? Sounds like a twisted double standard to me!!!

Sami and EJ have dealt with the issue and have moved on. Time for all of us to do the same.

I do not think a rapist should be with any woman, however it appears EJ will never be punished for it. He is not redeemed in my mind, he should be in jail but like I said seems how he isn't and never will be so he should be with Nicole. She is a nasty woman herself, they deserve each other.

Well, Sami is a rapist too, so by your judgement she shouldn't be allowed to be with anyone either. The show dealt with this already.

It's really interesting to me how people seem to want to apply the same standards they would in real life to a soap opera. I just don't get it. Who would want anything to do with most of the characters on DOOL in real life? Most of them have done despicable things and most of them would be in jail IRL.

And I'm really enjoying Chloe and Lucas together--at least it's something different for Lucas. I'm hoping that they're going in an interesting direction with him going undercover or something interesting like that. He could be doing so much more.

Told you it was a can of worms

Who would want anything to do with most of the characters on DOOL in real life? Most of them have done despicable things and most of them would be in jail IRL.



True, very true!!

I am not saying people cannot be forgiven either. And I know they have dealt with it and moved on, all I am saying is I could not and would not be with someone who raped me!! I am surprised however by how many fans seem to want them together after that. Which is why I started the post.

LMAO. I want EJ and Nicole but not for the reason that was stated. LOL.

I think John is up to something. He seems to be out to get EJ.


I agree.


LMAO!

I sure have not forgotton and I find the pairing of Sami with her rapist disgusting and sick. BUT that is why I think tptb brought in Nicole for EJ. They do not have all the sick history that Sami & Elvis have together. He is more open and honest with Nicole then he EVER was with Sami. It has been obvious to me since Elvis came into Salem, that he would just be another obstical for Sami and Lucas - but they will be back together eventually. No DiMera will stand between a Brady and their true love! Soap history shows that the bad guy will never win. Elvis J DiMera is the bad guy here and he will never have Sami the way he wants her. NEVER.

Nope, isn't gonna happen. He did many disgusting things to her and her family that are unforgivable and he has not showen one ounce of regret for some of those things. Him saying he thought he was making love to her the night he raped her is beyond sickning! She did NOT want to be with him and the nasty things he said (like holding Lucas's life between her legs) will not just go away. Him tourturing Steve and stealing John's kiddney will not just go away. OMO

I don't think soaps are supposed to be morality plays. No one has clean hands on soaps. Today's bad guy is tomorrow's hero and vice versa--whatever makes a good story. And Sami and EJ make a good story.

AZ, your hit the nail right on the head with this one!! The posts that you have responded to are perfect.. Just because Ej tortured, Sami heart, mind and soul doesn't mean he will do it to Nicole.. He hasn't done it yet, and the same goes for Kate..

ITA!

Not everyone thinks EJ is a rapist---by her actions not even Sami.

This belongs in the Triangles section with the rest of the debate, not on the general board.

I don't see why it should have to go off the "Main Board" IMO the OP is asking a debateable question. How is it that EJami fans are able to reconcile themselves with the fact that EJ raped Sami?

ShelleyDuvall,
All I can say is...You got me! I have no idea why anyone would want to see EJ with the woman he violated. When I see EJ and Sami together all I can think about is the terrible things he did to her. I think it undermines both EJ and Sami's characters to even hint that they can be paired romantically. I was ok with Sami forgiving him but when she willingly took him to bed I wanted to puke. I was insulted by it and I thought it degraded Sami.

It was the reason the subforums were created. To keep the never-ending rape debate and Lumi vs. Ejami war off the main board. There is plenty of room to debate this at the Triangles section, although most of us are beyond sick to death of it.

To answer your other question--it hasn't been very difficult to reconcile something that I don't believe happened. And the writing of the character of Sami for the last 18 months has supported this--she didn't act like a rape victim because she didn't feel raped. Did you happen to miss the talk between EJ and Sami that resolved this issue (for them, anyway?)

i never could get into this rape debate. i havent forgotton what ej has done but i guess i just dont care enough about his or anyone elses bad deeds. i dont want ej or sami in prison which is probably where they both should be ...they are the main reason i stared watching. after all of the crap that has went down between sami and lucas and sami and ej i think sami being with either one of them is a bit far fetched. this show is so far form reality that nothing they, do really bothers me that much.

I don't understand why Lucas is in prison and EJ is not.

I moved this thread into the Triangles section since that is where the debate threads are being moved to. This topic while still relevant for some is not something currently being discussed or dealt with on the show. If and when they start talking about it or dealing with it on the show then it can and I am sure will be discussed on the main forum. Until then it needs to remain in this subforum. Thank you for your understanding on this issue and I am sorry for any inconvenience.

Mia_Devlin
User Moderator

Thanks Mia!


I to think Sami & EJ make a good story - the story of Brady vs DiMera (once again!) Elvis has been obsessed w/ Sami just as Stefano is obsessed w/ Marlena. The only difference is: Elvis has found someone now who accepts him and likes him for who he is - not because he has to manipulate and lie to get her.

Thanks girl!

Yep, Elvis was told by his daddy to pick a Brady girl to get preggers - that is how he started his obsession w/ her. With Nicole, they came together because they actually like eachother...

You must have missed that great show,where Ejami dealt with this sensitve matter,,I for never thought he raped her,,he made her an offer and she took it,,MY OPINION....now Sami did not give that option to poor Austin.SHe drugged him,and made him think she was Carrie,,so yeah I am never had a problem with it,,I knew it was the lameass writer that was trying to ruin Ej,and nothing is going to sway me wanting EJami together,he looks stupid with the drunk Nicole,and I as a viewer will never accept them..there ya go,,my take

EXACTLY!



You are contradicting yourself.



Ya know, I've been wondering that for the past year and a half! I'm so tired of having to defend my morals because of stupid characters on a show.


To the bolded, precisely!

Now to your last paragraph, why would you ask that if you said what you did in your first paragraph? Shall I give you my life story so you know I have enough morals? I know you're new on here but EJami fans are SOOOOOOOOOO tired of defending our moral standards to people who can't realize it's just a show and we don't condone rape!

Because he's not a rapist, he's a blackmailer. Rapist don't usually give their victims choices. Sami had a choice and she CHOSE to make a bad decision...as is normal for her. It was a bad bargain. Does no one get the difference? Let me give you an example. Sami drugged austin and had sex with him.That was rape because he did not give consent and had no idea who he was having sex with.He was not given a choice. Allen forced himself on Sami without her consent. She was not given a choice. Ej gives her the ultimatum. Have sex with me and I'll help you save Lucas, don't and he MIGHT die. Any normal person would run down the road for help, not waste as much time having sex with someone. In the time it took her to have sex with EJ, she could have found help. There again, Sami never makes wise decisions. She always makes the wrong one. Imagine if your house was on fire and you ran into a guy and asked for his help and he said that he would only help you put out the fire if you had sex with him. Would you do it or go in search of other help. Of course, you would go find other help. AGain, true rapist don't give their victims the choice of being raped or not. Go to any jail and ask one and I bet they didn't give their victims choices. EJ was a scumbucket to be sure, but not a rapist in the eyes of Ejami lovers. So there is your answer. Be surprised if you wish, but that is how we feel. Some often wonder how Sami could love someone that tried to have her killed on death row, but you don't see those fans cursing the day Lucas was born. Everyone sees things differently.

Wow, that is a really good analogy. Clear as crystal to me! And I had to laugh a little at the thought of stopping to have sex with someone when my house was burning down!

EJ being a lawyer is a JOKE!!! I'm not a Lumi fan or Ejami fan, I just hate EJ. And yes, he's a rapist and attempted murderer and kidnapper and organ thief. He needs to die or rot in jail.

I wish you were right about that. Unfortunately John isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.

The show can't control the viewers minds, as much as they would like to think they can.

I've been watching soaps my whole life and this is just not true. Most villains who have done as many vicious crimes as EJ end up paying on a soap in some manner. Sami paid for raping Austin by losing him completely and everyone finding out about it and she was shunned and while her family still loved her, she lost their respect and trust. Alan paid for his crime by having Sami shoot him where it counts. I can make a whole list of villainous criminals on soaps that pay for their crimes in some way. It is not typical that someone like EJ is redeemed overnight without paying for anything, and having his victims treat him like a saint.

The reason I feel it was rape is this:

Rape is most often motivated by extreme anger toward the victim or a need to overpower the victim. The motive is rarely sexual and violence is not always involved. Forced sex is intended to abuse, humiliate, and dehumanize the victim.

Website

What EJ did had nothing to do with sex, but everything to do with power and control. If he just wanted to blackmail her, he didn't have to have sex with her to do it. As for the "choice" argument... say a man comes into your house in the black of night and comes into your bed and tells you that he has a gun and you better keep quiet and do as he says. You never actually see a gun, but you believe he has one. You can either do what he says or fight him. You have a choice. If you fight him and he never had a gun and you get away from him, you made a great choice. If you decide to believe him and you let him rape you, you also made a great choice. Because there IS NO CHOICE when someone is making you do something you don't want to do and never intended to do and you don't know what this man is going to do to you if you don't do as he wants. You do what he wants or you risk his wrath, whatever that might be. Fear is the motivator, and the rapist is using fear to get what he wants.

Sami had no way of knowing what EJ could or would do. She knew he had a gun. She knew he could over power her at any moment. She was AFRAID. That, is RAPE.

Great post! I don't think EJ is rapist.

Great post...years of torture from Lucas,certainly does not stop their fans,,or him standing up,before the whole town declaring Carrie the "love of his life"..I agree with everything you posted

I have to disagree with you here. Sami knew EJ, knew him well enough to trust him at his word that he would help Lucas after they had sex, which he did. Sami never would have done it had she thought he wouldn't make good on his word. He also had put the gun away, AND told her she could leave the car BEFORE he put out the bargain--sex for help.

I never saw fear in Sami during that entire scene. Anger, yes. She was angry enough to slap him. She never appeared afraid in any sense of the word.

color me confused. if you think he is a rapist, are you afraid he will rape poor nicole too? or may nicole deserves to be his next victim.

lol. since sami is also a rapist, they are perfect for each other.
sami has forgiven ej. they have dealt with the issue and wiped the slate clean. ejami are in love and have successfully moved. quite frankly, this horse has been beaten to death.

He raped the woman that he is obsessed with. It was the ONLY way he could dip his stick in her. Yes that's nasty wording, and its fitting because let's be real, that's all he wanted to do. Dip his stick, and make her pregnant.

He doesn't have the same disregard for Nicole that he does for Sami. He doesn't have to rape Nicole, or blackmail her, or threaten her life or those of her unborn twins or family members just to get some loving. Nicole loves EJ for who he is. Sami hates EJ for who he is.

Getting old explaining this now over and over and over again. Just because some of us hate EJ with Sami, doesn't mean we have to hate him with every character that's on the show (although some fans just plain hate EJ, period).

To the OP:

Yes, it seems a lot of people have forgotten the litany of crimes that EJ has committed against Sami and her family.

I'd love to know how EJami fans could want a man who intentionally put the lives of those twins in danger while they were in utero. What kind of a man does that? And how do you rationally explain that even after something as heinous as that (and really that gets about as low as you can go), that you STILL see something romantic between the man who did that and his victim?

That was ALL EJ too. Stephano had nothing to do with what EJ did, so please don't use the papa made me do it crap. Seriously, would you ever fall in love with the man who put your unborn twins lives in danger on purpose? Would you fall in love with the man who stuck his fingers down your throat while he forced you to have sex with him? Would you fall in love with a man who made comments such as "you hold *insert the name of a loved one here* life between your legs?

EJ colored glasses are what some viewers have on. I'll never ever get it in a million years. It makes me sick every time I revisit the things that EJ has done to Sami and her family.

The show has moved past this Sami and EJ have had their much needed converstation ... you can keep debating this until the cows come home but it is not relevant to the s/l any longer! You can beat it to death over and over but it won't change the fact that Sami willingly made love to EJ in one of the most beautiful, tender and sensual love scenes ever on daytime. case closed!

This is the best smilie to use in this situation--




Absolutely GREAT post!!



EJ had sex with her with one thing in mind, to get her pregnant. He didn't do it to humiliate, or dehumanize her. He was planting his seed. One thing does not always mean another.



Color me confused too!

seriously! I haven't forgotten either. And since I love Nicole, I really didn't want him around her anyway. But somehow he actually treats her well and they do have the chem. that you can't deny.
and i agree with the bolded. he had to pay a judge, because if the judge had any decency to do a backround check, theres no way in hell he would be able to have custody of johnny

oh yes i forgot sami was superman and she could've broken through those locked doors SO easily!

Yes, it seems a lot of people have forgotten the litany of crimes that EJ has committed against Sami and her family.

EJ colored glasses are what some viewers have on. I'll never ever get it in a million years. It makes me sick every time I revisit the things that EJ has done to Sami and her family.
[/quote]

Just curious, how do you justify being a Lucas fan after some of the extremely hateful crap he pulled against Sami in the past? How could you be a Sami fan (before she slept with EJ of course) taking into account all the heinous things she did to friends and family?

EJ and his crimes make you sick, we get that. I just don't "get" hypocrisy. I say like who you like, don't feel the need to explain why, and don't throw stones if you live in a glass house.

^above post in reply to Mesagirl's post. Wouldn't let me edit.

The reason I started this post is because every where I looked it seemed to be a lot of EJ/Sami fans, I was looking for Lucas/Sami fans or even just Sami fans. It was not intended to be debate forum. So there really is no reason for people to be in here defending EJ or taking things personally.

I did not know it should be in a subforum, sorry about that!

That said I have always liked Sami and I think she has done some awful things in the past however I have always chalked them up to her being hurt and very immature and not handling anything well. I have been waiting years to see her grow up and mature and I think she finally has and I love it!!

GREAT post jiggs! ICAM!



If Elvis and Sami are so in love, why in the world did she give him his ring back & get an annulment? Why does she keep declairing her love for Lucas over, and over, and over? Why does she want to move out of the mansion? Why is it she has NEVER - EVER said, "EJ, I love you" Hmmmmmmm?

ABSOLUTLY FANTASTIC POST - BRAVO!



Oh how romantic And you say he wasn't trying to humiliate her?! What about when he told her she held Lucas's life between her legs? Pretty freekin sick and humiliating IMO...

I don't believe that EJ raped Sami. I believe she said that she didn't have a choice? She had a choice. She let EJ have his way. She could have said, "Nope, I'd rather cut off my own head", but didn't. She's a resourceful young woman, she could have thought of some way to get that beam off Lucas. If not she could have held his hand, told him she loved him until he died. Now that would have been sweet to watch!

^Even Lucas told her she was resourceful, that she could have found another way.

He really has had her number for quite a while now.

Anyone want some?

Want, or really should have?!?!?

His victim Sami did. She slept with him after all of that.