ER
T-MINUS-6
02-26-2009 10:00PM

A DAY TO FORGET—NOAH WYLE, COURTNEY B. VANCE (“LAW AND ORDER, CRIMINAL INTENT”) AND AMY MADIGAN (“GREY’S ANATOMY”) GUEST STAR—After getting frustrated with In Vitro Fertilization Dr. Banfield (Angela Bassett) and her husband (guest star Courtney B. Vance) decide to try an adoption agency to fulfill their dreams of having a family. Dr. Carter (guest star Noah Wyle) quickly tries to jump back into working at County but struggles with all the new procedures and technology. Sam (Linda Cardellini) is shocked when her mom (guest star Amy Madigan) comes into the ER in an altered state of mind. John Stamos, Parminder Nagra, Scott Grimes and David Lyons also star.

Show Cast: Linda Cardellini, Parminder Nagra, John Stamos, Scott Grimes, David Lyons, Angela Bassett

This episode sounds great. Love Wyle, LOVE Amy Madigan and LOVE Bassett story lines, so this should be good!

I'm def curious about this episode...It cant come quicker enough.

okay, was It me and my husband the only one's that saw a very quick and distressing clip of neela being shot...

That was Claudia not Neela.

Thanks for clarifying.

I totally loved that Ray phone call at the end!!

Brenner: Totally needs psychiatric help, like right now! This strategy to handle his childhood scars by himself is definitely not working. He's obviously very disturbed.

Breela: This relationship is over!!! Put a fork in it! There's no substance! No spark! No fire! It is simply based on sex, and even that seems to be getting boring(at least from Neela's point of view). Neela obviously wants more out of a relationship! Brenner clearly is not ready for a serious relationship. He has too many demons. They're basically strangers to each other and Neela seems to be just buying time until something better comes along.

Carter: Oh Carter! My dear Carter! I felt sorry for him because he just looked lost. However, his great skills began to shine through beneath the surface. Gates saw it and complimented him and he made the right call on Neela's surgical patient. I loved that joke he played on Banfield about needing her kidney. I'm really worried about his health though. I hope he pulls through.

Sam: Boy, not much love for the ol' lady huh! Did she not recognize you because of her condition or has it just been that long?lol

The Banfields: I thought the scenes at the adoption agency were hilarious. Way to go Mr. Banfield. He nearly broke his hand on that guys face.

Morris and Claudia: I think Claudia is in big trouble and Morris can see it. I think that her fellow officers may be plotting to hurt her because they feel she's a rat. I don't want anything to happen to her because I really enjoy watching her and Archie together.

After tonight's episode, Neela is already realizing there's no communication between her and Brenner. I'm so happy Ray called in the middle of it, The look on Brenner's face, I think neela has been talking to ray with how he asked if she was going to get that?

This so called relationship with neela and brenner is no relationship, its already starting to go downhill....

It's great to have Carter back working in the ER!! With each episode this season they seem to be getting better and better.

As great as it was to have Carter back, this episode belonged to Brenner. His story is touching me week after week. He's got some serious problems to deal with and David Lyons is an amazing actor to be able to show so much emotion with just his face. I'm starting to warm up to his character and am actually feeling quite bad for him. I think his relationship with Neela will not survive especially with Ray in the background. Ray and Neela were always such good friends and it seems Neela is slowly realizing that he may be just what she needs. She needs someone she can come home to and talk to about her problems (a la 'lost in America' when she had a bad day, she came home complaining to Ray about it--he listened to her and even cheered her up with some poker)

Sam and Gates seem to be slowly starting to be friends again. And it seems they're moving in the right direction. She's going to need some support with her mom being there and he seems to want to help her through it. My heart went out to her when they were singing to each other in the end and her mom said 'I wish I had a daughter like you'--man, the ER writes are good!!

I loved when Banfield's husband hit that guy--I was cheering!!

The best scene tonight was Carter telling Banfield he's working back at County because he needed her kidney--LOL! Truth be told, he had me going...

The show was good.

Neela and Brenner really are over. I 100% agree with you G-Unit, Neela needs someone that actually has it together. He really needs help. I know many people who have been in relationships that one party has alot of issues. My brother was in a relationship with a girl that she had a lot of demons also. She experienced abuse that was never addressed and when she told my brother he tried to help her get through it but, eventually her issues ended their relationship. Even if he opened up to Neela, I don't think she could help him. I really think she is ready for a man who has it together.

Michael as nice as he was he had demons too. His fathers approval was important to him. We learned that during his funeral when his mom said he ask his father if he should go back and his father told him yes. He threw away his marriage to be a hero to his dad.

Gates, had to many issues too and he seems to be gettimg it together now. But Neela would never be able to help him. He needed to deal with Meg and Sarah. Neela was never ever going to be top priority, Now Brenner.

She is past all of that, you can see that she wants more and deserves more. Ray, has grown in front of our eyes and behind the scenes. We watch him go from a cocky dispo doc to a dedicated doctor and friend. He grew to think of others first. After his accident he was able to get through a serious injury to becoming a confident, responsible, highly dedicated doctor. He is focused and ready to take on the world. Neela is there also. All she needs is a man that undersatnds her and that she understands, a man that communicates, listens,sympathizes, that knows her likes and dislikes and she knows his. A man that knows that she likes anchovies on her pizza, and shares it with her. A man that konws what her favorite shows are and that she knows what type of music gets him going. She needs a man that is a friend as well as a lover. Ray fits that bill 100%.

Carter was okay, I think instead of getting upset about at every correction he should have embraced it Banfield told him when you go away for so long to a country who is not as medically sophisticated as us and returns to the USA and the new medical advances. He should have stepped back a little and watch the others and re learn. I love Carter I really do but, he really needs to humble himself. I did not like waht he said to Neela. It proves my point that he is not taking the time to get back in the loop. I can see that Neela was pissed.

I am so afraid for Claudia. Archie senses that also.

Sam, annoys me and I am glad her mom did not recgonize her.

Go Banfields!!! SLAP!!! That guy at the adoption place was an idiot.

Loved seeing Carter back at work and hearing him tell the story of Him and Lucy being stabbed
So glad the writers haven't forgotten that Carter, while a serious guy always had a sense of humor when he pulled that prank on Banfield I was LOL.

I liked his vibe with Gates as well, Liked seeing Gate's opinion of Carter change and see that even though he was "rusty" he is an excellent ER physician.

I love Morris and Claudia as a couple, they are adorable

Brenner really got to me, too bad he can't open up to Neela, I think she needed to hear about what was going on with him, then her "I was wrong" incident would have been put into perspective for her. Seemed kind of insignificant compared to what he was going through, but she can't possible know that if he can't talk to her.
Very good episode and I also was thrilled to see Frank with Carter, anyone else remember Frank being Carter's first pt in the pilot,,,Carter was putting is IV in , well trying to anyway, when Frank was still a cop.. now there is a piece of trivia for ya lol

I enjoyed the espisode, however I hope that NBC is not going to kill off Dr John Carter. That would be the worse finale I have ever seen.

I agree with henia77 about Neela realizing what she needs. But, with Michael it did talk about being in Iraq and what happened over there to her and that he did have it together. Its not like they got divorced over it, she did support him and he clearly missed her. But I do agree entirely with the discussion about gates. I think she realized that she wasted too much time and effort with someone who wasn't offering the same and she doesn't want that to happen again.

And there was also a comment about how Carter should have stepped back and what he said to Neela. But I think that time probably basically stood still in Africa and that his mind hasn't caught up to that she wouldn't be an intern now and that she is almost and attending.

And I just 'heart' archie and claudia!

I have to say, I think LYons does a good job with Brenner. I can still see a Breela story line, but I'm holding out for Reela.

Thought Carter was great. Banfield-- touching and funny.

I love Amy Madigan and thought the final scene with her and Sam was well done.

With all due respect, may I just say to those who laughed at Sam's interactions with her mother that I hope you never have to experience anything like that. I'm assuming that her mom has either Alzheimer's or some other form of dementia. It's scary enough to be faced with the prospect of the aging of a parent, but to add in something like AD or a similar disease brings in a whole boatload of other emotions.

Looks like trouble in Breela paradise is going to be worse from now on.....


I am hoping for a good storyline for Neela at the end of the season. I hope the writers will make Ray & Neela speak their heart out, no more fumbles please! For heaven's sake, this is it, no more next season for a "what if" scenario. You can tell I am one of those really disturbed at how Season 13 ended with Ray losing his legs....I dont appreciate it writers.

I believe they will. The show began with Dr. Carter in the first episode and it would naturally make sense to make it end with him dying in the final show. I think that Dr. Brennar's patient on cardiac bypass will have something to do with it, since Dr. Carter and her have the same blood type.

OK i think i have figured this out the thing with John C can go 3 ways 1.he gets a kidny form banfeld(if his joke ternd out to be true), the mom upstars on the wating for a heart, or some else 2 (carter is tipe O) he stay on dialisis for the rest of the time 3 i am hopeing this is no true he ........ DIES . now seein how he is only on for 5 ep this last being 2nd and we still have 5 left probaly 2 is not likly 1 maby and 3 more so yes (seeing how thay show him colapsing in the prevews) . well we will see

How great was last night episode?!!! There have been some weak fillers this season, but last night was the great ER of old. Lots of strong stories, well acted, well directed. It was great to see Dr Carter back, loved Sam's touching storyline and who didn't laugh at Scott Grimes. Love, love, love Angela Basset. I'm now officially hooked again and will be watching every Thursday at 10 for the next 5 weeks. After dipping in and out of past seasons, I hope my faith in the remaining episodes will continue to be rewarded. ER is one class act. Touching, edgy, funny. I care about the show again in a way that i haven't past the first 4 seasons. Good job to the cast and crew.

Please tell me Claudia is gonna be OK! Archie seems so happy.

As a person who jumped onto the boat only in the 15th and final season, with no knowledge of characters' past histories, I just find it a bit surprising that there is/was so much hate going around for Sam. She seems like a competent doctor who just lets her emotions drive her. As a single parent, it made sense that she would get defensive over her only son. I read a bit about her past, and she's gone through a lot more than I expected. And I can't see why anyone wouldn't be the least bit sympathetic towards her and her mother this episode. Banfield and Sam still remain my favorite storylines thus far.

I think either Carter will get the kidney from the woman on the Bypass or they will both get organs donated from the same person....Claudia, perhaps? That would suck, because I really like the Morris/Claudia storyline. Oh...and I definately think it will be Benton performing the transplant surgery.

YES.. yes..!-- Finally the real Brenner comes to light..-- Him and Neela have no future which is so clear now.. his problems and insecurities came to surface that he uses Sex as his communication rather than talking which Neela wants. She wants someone to connect with her, ask her how her day was.. (That person was always Ray.. ) And boy, what great timing of Ray's phone call at the end.

Carter: SO great to see him back, but I still feel sad seeing Carter like this.. he seems abit off.. the stuff he said to Neela and was not listening. The joke he did with Banfield about wanting her Kidney was sooo convincing.. lol.. her face was shocked for a second.

Claudia/Morris: Somethings obviously gonna happen with her.. but hope she will be ok. Morris seems worried about her... and that shooting from that promo before suggests something gonna go wrong.

Sam: I felt for Sam's mum.. I think Sam realised she neglected her mum too much.. the ending with them singing was soooo sad.... and her mum saying 'I wish I had a daughter like you'.. awwww..
Sam needs to get back with Gates...

I posted a long response last night which was eaten, and it was too late to redo, I'm going to try and recreate my thoughts now so, bear with me. I will also preface this by saying that I already know many of you will disagree.

I really like the development of Brenner's character, it's one of the few glimmer's of intelligent plotlines I've seen this season. I'm finding huge similarities between his behavior with early Luka, and it's that I want to explain, as well as why I think Neela/Brenner could work.

Brenner has obviously been through some serious abuse or trauma as a child and as he's grown up, he has found ways to live his life that enable him to cope with things while not revisiting them. Many victims of abuse are unable to relate to people on "normal" levels, they don't form close attachments easily, nor do they talk about their pasts, many may in fact block them out. In Brenner's case he seems to use sex as a means of avoiding those core issues, while still gaining a physical sense of love that he may well have never known as a child. He wants to connect to someone, but, he is neither fully comfortable with the idea nor does he know how to go about it in a healthy way.

If you compare this to early Luka, you saw him leaving his surviving family and Country to escape his past, once in the States he embraced a life of the Nomad, moving often so he wouldn't get too close to anyone, so he wouldn't have to talk about his past. Communication was also a problem for him, especiall in his relationships, look especially to his first dating of Abby, and with Sam. Luka seemed most comfortable when he was playing at being a father again, but he was never really able to open up and start to see the need for change until he came close to meeting his own death.

All of this is difficult for Neela, she's always jumped into relationships, and this is one she needs to work on. Hopefully she'll realize that there is something deeper happening with him, and be willing to give him the time he needs to find a way to work through it. He's had a lifetime to get to where he is, the fix isn't going to happen overnight.

I personally didn't see the phonecall as welcomed, I thought she reacted to it as if it were an inconvenience and an interruption that she didn't need at that moment. I do think she and Ray could be friends, but, I don't see them as ever being more then that, he has too many issues of his own to work on and to even think about throwing a relationship into the mix would be insane. If anything, I'd see Neela drifting to him out of a sense of guilt because she saw herself as responsible for his losing his legs, and that is not what a relationship should be built off of.

As Luka eventually found a way to face his demons, I'd like to think Brenner will as well, and I wouldn't mind it happening with Neela at his side.

JD Minus Mod Hat

Sex is no excuse for everything.
ER always uses sex to excuse the characters mistakes. A relationship between 2 people based only on sex is catastrophic.
Brenner has obviously been through some serious abuse or trauma as a child and as he's grown up. But that does not justify that he treats all women like crap at the beginning. I am woman and I hate that kind of man.
I can not erase the original image as Brenner was made in the beginning. Just who is woman and passed through the hands of a scoundrel as Brenner realizes what I'm talking about.
I personally did see the Ray's phonecall as welcomed. Very much welcomed... Because Neela needs a friend for share her life and her problems, her needs, her feelings, her love. Love is not only sex...And Ray knows her so well. Brenner only want sex.
Brenner is not ready for a relationship. He needs therapy and a psychiatrist.
If Brenner has so many serious problems...I dont understand how a person with serious problems like Brenner, achieved the status of doctor.
Brenner's story is so controversial than bizarre.

How can you forgive Ray then? He slept around like crazy, using sex for pleasure with untold numbers of groupies, and even committed statuatory rape, an act that should have landed him in prison. Even if he wasn't aware that the girl was a minor at the time, her father should have had him arrested and in most states, he would be considered a sex offender and have done jail time.

I find Brenner far less distasteful on the sex issues then I do Ray, sorry.

I understand that Brenner has a history of abuse and I emphasize with that. However, it is no excuse for his callous treatment of women. His two women opening scene, his treatment of Laverne (he actually really never apologized to her---it was as if he said ‘we’re all good’), the blonde girlfriend he seemed to dump after an episode, and his swaggering comment to Neela that “one day, she would come back to him” because he simply is “the man.” He seems to get away scot-free with this behavior.

As to Neela, you seem to infer that with Neela, Brenner will be able to overcome his demons. Not true. While a supporting partner is helpful, it is far more important that a victim of abuse receives therapy (which I find amazing that ER has not yet covered for Brenner), and appropriate help/resources. A group of close friends and family is helpful that you can talk to as well, not just a girlfriend that you can’t seem to even communicate with (you can see this from last night’s episode).

You also seem to jump from Luka to Neela. From his history, we jump to her relationship issues. But you make no strong argument for Neela and Brenner to be together. In fact, you seem to go against it. She has relationship issues and he obviously has other issues he needs to overcome. If she is not ready to be with him and deal with his issues, then why continue the relationship? Out of a sense of guilt that he has his issues that you seem to attribute to Ray-Neela and why they wouldn’t work?

As for the phone call, I think Neela has already clearly made her decision. When she was first with Brenner, she and Ray were not on talking terms. When Brenner tries to get into her good books, she is with Ray and very specifically tells Brenner that she’s not interested. Only when Ray tells her that he has a girlfriend, she then expresses interest in Brenner. And as soon as Brenner walks out the door, she picks up the phone to return Ray’s phone call. She also hesitates and looks at the phone while she and Brenner are arguing. Brenner even says “are you going to pick that up?” Obviously, if I’m fighting with someone and the phone rings, I’m sure I’ll keep arguing, regardless of who it is. It’s human nature.

I am sure we will see more of how this plays out. But I don’t buy the whole Ray-Neela going through so much that they can’t be together. Would you give up on someone because you’ve been through so much? I doubt it. It should make you stronger.

BTW, not personally attacking you just the argument

Ray dont made woman feels like a crap...Give me an example of him treating women like crap or sleep with 2 woman at same time!
And almost all woman were groupies.
Or they were women who went after him. They always threw to him. They were women who took the initiative. Not Ray!!!

I'm fine with the discussion and know it's nothing personal Stars, no worries.

What I meant with Neela, is that I think with Neela, Brenner has finally found someone that is making him question how he's been living his life and he's finding it both frightening and confusing. I don't think he knows how to handle it and he's fighting the urge to run away.

Neela has also jumped into relationships out of convenience, and hasn't been deeply committed to any that required work, one with Brenner would make her see that nothing comes easy. I think whatever they do will involve give and take from both of them, I also believe that both could benefit from therapy. It'll be interesting to see what the writers do in the upcoming weeks.

Els@C...

We have no evidence of how either of them really made any of the women feel, but, throwaway sex is still throwaway sex however you look at it. The point is, Ray still had sex with a minor and nothing excuses that.

Because the girl lied about her age. He made a mistake but a mistake like an innocent. Moreover she could have getting him a sexual disease. Because this girl slept with many men ...
After all that Zoe did to ray... he helped the girl to flee from her abusive father and treated her with tenderness. But Brenner is not innocent when he treats women like crap. He knows what he does... I hope you dont found a man like Brenner on your way...is not easy believe me!

And one more thing Ray always respect neela...always...

Nothing excuses statuatory rape, a minor is not capable of making informed decisions, that's how they are led into prostitution and any number of other illegal activities to get away from their lives. Ray didn't care enough about the women he was sleeping with to know anything about them or even notice he was sleeping with a minor. All Ray wanted was a woman to spread her legs for him. I'm sorry, if that isn't treating women like crap I don't know what is.

I do not agree. Ray will not hunt for Zoe walked to sex. Zoe was hunted Ray for sex.
She simply deceived him.
Brenner already went looking for women as a hunter ! Ray was shot. But Brenner is the hunter.

Yes, Ray slept with a minor but the second he found out Zoe's real age, he ended things with her. He might have slept with a whole bunch of women but he never treated them like they were insignificant and worthless the way Brenner did with Laverne and all of sudden being nice to her during the events of Haunted doesn't cut it.

Yes he tried to apologize and started to treat her better but he never actually took her aside and said, "I'm sorry for how I treated you" or anything of that nature. He just all of sudden became this nice guy that we are supposed to feel sorry for and excuse his previous actions because of being sexually abused as a child. It doesn't work that way.

Back to him and Neela, what kind of relationship is it when all he wants to do is get her into bed? When you are in a healthy relationship with someone, it is not only about sexual attraction but respect, trust and honesty. How is Neela supposed to trust Brenner or be able to count on him in difficult times when he won't talk to her about himself and what happened to him when he was a child or all he wants to do is get her into bed when she is trying to have an honest conversation with him about the things that matter to her. That is why I will never buy Neela and Brenner's being together as a couple. A relationship based on nothing but the physical never works.

Els@C...

I'll say one more thing on this to you and then stop. Ray is an adult, Zoe was a child, all he had to do was refuse her, he didn't because the sex was all that mattered to him. Nameless throwaway sex = him quilty of statuatory rape and legally a sex offender in most states in the US.

dshort...

I would compare the Neela comments to Luka/Abby, she couldn't accept him the first time around either, it took quite a few years and a lot of mistakes in relationships for either of them to find a way to make it work for them. Thing is, they seem willing to do whatever they have to to even if it means starting over somewhere else.

I like this type of conversation because it brings this board back to life. So I have to thank you for bringing up a very good topic here for debate. I just would like to warn my fellow roomie fans to stay calm and not get emotional. Everyone has their opinions and we must respect that. However, I would like to chime in on the discussion as well. I just want to highlight a few points.

To your first point about Neela always jumping into relationships. You are absolutely correct. I totally agree with you. But ironically, you fail to see that that is the reason why she and Brenner will never work. She has jumped into the relationship for all the wrong reasons. It no different than her past relationships. She is trying to fill a void that none of these people she's been with, Gates, Gallant, Brenner could fulfill. Every relationship Neela has been in is to escape her own pitiful reality. With Gallant, it was because her life was boring and even though her feelings for him were genuine, I don't think she was actually in love with him. She rushed into a relationship with someone she didn't know and never really got to know. With Gates, she used him as a way to dull the pain of Gallant's death. He was basically a distraction for her so she could avoid facing the reality of her husband's death. She didn't know him and her ignorance of who he was, his personal life and the people in it(Meg, Sarah) ultimately destroyed whatever little relationship they had. Brenner was equally a drug of choice when she couldn't deal with what happened to Ray. When she felt rejected by Ray once finding out he had a girlfriend, then she ran away from reality again and only then gave Brenner a chance.

Her relationships with these men were clearly misguided and not founded on honesty and familiarity. It was not motivated by trying to find love. All these men do have something in common however, and that they were use as a protection against her having to come to grips and deal in a healthy way with how she felt about Ray. You see, Ray was the only one she got to know. He was the only she got to bond with. He was the only one she got to connect with on a higher level than just physical attraction. She does not need to jump into a relationship with him. And if they get together, it won't be a hurried relationship like the others but one that has stood the test of time and is established on a real connection. She would not have to be with him hide the emptiness in side because when she's with him, there is no emptiness. Her needs are fulfilled and she's happy when she's with him. But that was not the case with Gallant, Gates, and Brenner. So it would be more logical for her to be with Ray, who I feel she wants to be with anyway.

Another interesting point that you make is about Ray having too much issues to deal with and that Neela would only be with him out of guilt. But yet you say that she should stick with Brenner and be patient with him and help him in working out his issues. The problem is that that's somewhat contradictory isn't it? What you are essentially saying is that for some reason it won't be realistic if Neela was in a relationship with Ray and tried to help him with his issues, but yet by some miracle it would be realistic if she stayed with Brenner(whom she hardly knows) and help him through his. That makes no sense. Why can't she be with Ray and love him and help him through his problems just like she would with Brenner?

I don't think Neela cares about Ray's disability. She loves him and they can work through it. I think he is the man that she knows is her better half and I think this time she will fight to be with him.

Ray openly admitted that was a mistake. But how did he end up treating her like crap? He actually ended up rescuing her from a abusive father by giving her money and contacting her sister for a place to live.

And JD, the imagery might be much for a PG-13 forum. So we might want to tone that down a little.

Yes, Ray was a womanizer, but so were Luke, Brenner and Gates as well. In fact, you could arguably say that every single man on ER was a womanizer. Yes, Ray wasn't a saint either, but he matures by eons especially post his accident.

Even his refusal to sleep with Neela in Haunted is totally against anything a womanizer would do. His respect for her marriage also counts a lot too. He also openly gave her space post Michael's demise.

I think we all need to agree to disagree on this issue and let it go.

dshortklutz and starsarefalling
Thanks for your words.
My english is not good and sometimes I dont express myself like I wish...but it's my opinion.
ER is not real...only pretend to be real...

So well said about Ray stars:
Even his refusal to sleep with Neela in Haunted is totally against anything a womanizer would do. His respect for her marriage also counts a lot too. He also openly gave her space post Michael's demise.

I'll stop the fight...

I do see Luka as having done wrong, his entire year prior to going to the Congo was a downward spiral of self-abuse and lack of concern for those he was with, but he learned from those mistakes.

My feelings on Neela are as they are because the relationship is the one she is currently involved in, I'd just like to see her stick with it rather then running away because it's not easy.

I think there is room for healthy debate but we need to go up a level from the character's s*x lives....

dshortklutz...

If people want to continue this discussion they are welcome to, feel free to opt out at anytime yourself however,

JD/Forum Moderator

Bingo. Ray also learned from his mistakes.

I do see Neela running from relationships as well. But there are dual problems of why she's in it with Brenner and whether she's attached. She definitely doesn't seem too attached and only seems to gain one thing from it. In fact, arguably, the three relationships Neela has had on the show had incredible flaws. Michael, she didn't know; Gates and Brenner, she was in it because of something major had happened and she wanted comfort/didn't want a history.

This is where Ray comes in. Ray is truly the only one that Neela shares the best relationship with. He is her best friend. She shares an incredible comfort level with him that she never shared with the other three. Best of all, the relationship is NOT about s*x. It's about something deeper. The way Ray is literally imbibed in her life is important. He is literally interwined with her life (the roots of her tree is another analogy). Brenner could never compete with that. So while Brenner and Neela could be together, Brenner couldn't take Ray's place and fully become part and parcel with Neela. Only really Ray could.

But, Luka did nothing that would earn him a conviction as a sex offender had it been prosecuted as it should have been, and that is the difference. Yes, Luka spent time with Valerie, paid her for her time, but, she was clearly an intelligent woman, aware of her actions and old enough to make the choice to be doing what she was. Zoe was not capable of making that decision and now has to deal with the effects for the rest of her life.

The problem with the whole Breela relationship is that it is not based on genuine love! It is based on selfish needs of two people. Both are trying to run away from reality and find temporary comfort from the problems of their life. They use sex to accomplish this, but to Neela's credit, she realizes that this is not the answer. I see both of them staying together as a big mistake. They need to work out whatever problems that they have instead of trying to run away from it with meaningless sex. Neela needs to finally confront the way she feels about Ray, and Brenner needs to confront his childhood demons.

Well, prostitution is a federal crime. So really, it's even. I think you can get registered as an offender for that too. Of course, Ray was unknowing, and Luka was knowing. But we can argue that until the cows come home. We can go back to the Ray-Neela-----------------Brenner thing

Personally I don't see a difference between Brenner/Neela and Doug/Carol, except they don't have 6 seasons to flesh it out. Ray is getting put on way to high of a pedestal IMO.

In the States, prostitution isn't a sex offender charge in most states, it's a ticket violastion if caught, payable by a simple fine. Most times it's rarely prosecuted in fact, and certainly not among high end prostitutes, the police have more serious issues to worry about.

Unfortunately the issue with Zoe does go to Ray's character as much as Brenner's secret impacts his life decisions and current behaviors.

I have a question why are you so fixated with the "mistake" Ray made with Zoe? Not, even Neela knew zoe was a minor until she told them. The character of Zoe was either 13 or 15 I can't remember but, I do know that she had a STD. The last time I checked STD meant sexually transmitted disease. So since Ray was cleared of any STD's Zoe was the one sleeping around with different guys. She was fully aware of her sexual exploites, and made the decision to hangout in night clubs as a groupie. The subject of statutory rape and being a sex offender is a little over the top.

Great episode! Carter had me going with the Banfield/kidney thing!

I also think they will have him die... ...that brings the series full circle to me.

I see Carter going into 'the light' and being met by Mark...and walking the halls of an empty ER like Mark did when he passed....

Aziz, I think what we have to do here is be fair. You are making it seem as if Ray knew Zoe was underage. Now, I don't want you to get me wrong, I hated Ray's attitude and way of life in his earlier days. He was a player who just wanted sex and didn't take women seriously. He was very immature. So in no way am I trying to justify his mistakes or condone his behavior. However, the truth of the matter is that had Ray known this girl was underage, he would have never slept with her. He clearly was disgusted by the fact that he had slept with an underage teenage girl. He obviously saw the mistake and inappropriateness in that immediately upon learning of it and acted accordingly. Yes you are right that under the law it is statutory rape and that charges could have been pressed against him. But you also need to balance your argument and look at both sides instead of looking at the argument through a narrow lens. It is not as simplistic as you are trying to make it out to be. The way your making it sound, one would think that Ray was intentionally going around having sex with girls he knew was underage.