SOUTHLAND
SEE THE WOMAN
04-23-2009 10:00PM
04-25-2009 9:00PM

BEN REVEALS WHY HE CHOSE TO BE A COP; A FAMOUS ACTOR FINDS HIMSELF IN TROUBLE, AGAIN - Tom Sizemore and C. Thomas Howell Guest Star - When officer Ben Sherman (Ben McKenzie) reveals details of his past to the department therapist and his training officer, John Cooper (Michael Cudlitz), the motivation behind his decision to be a cop becomes clear. Elsewhere, Dewey (guest star C. Thomas Howell) becomes star struck by Timmy (guest star Tom Sizemore, "Saving Private Ryan") a famous, self obsessed actor. In true Dewey style, mischievous and star struck Dewey decides to party with Timmy, rather then book him. Trouble ensues when Dewey loses track of Timmy, and Chickie (Arija Bareikis) finds herself questioning her decision to take him on as her partner. Regina King, Tom Everett Scott, Shawn Hatosy, Kevin Alejandro and Michael McGrady also stars.

Show Cast: Michael Cudlitz, Regina King, Tom Everett Scott, Michael McGrady, Shawn Hatosy, Kevin Alejandro, Arija Bareikis, Ben McKenzie

Looking forward to learning about Officer Sherman's family, sounds like a very interesting family history!

Will indeed be looking forward to this portion of the series as its third show. Am so please that [our] SouthLAnd is gain high ratings as well deserved, hope they continue to climb assuring the pickup of the show. At least there should be no hint of the ax at this point. Does anyone know what NBC's inital commitment to SouthLAnd is??

Southland (Guest Star: Tom Sizemore) Episode: "See the Woman" EPK now posted on nbc.epk.tv

Airs: Thursday, April 23, 2009 (10-11PM ET) and Saturday, April 25, 2009 9-10PM ET)

Here is the link:

http://nbc.epk.tv/view.aspx?request=episod...owEpisodeID=638

Just saw this WOW 5 stars (way better then last week) just great and wish I was still an IA fly on the wall on that one cop, Cooper so right in taking his badge and gun AND leaving him there to get out of the cuffs - jack ass - in the full uniform no less. Ben at the end was so elite and full of true grit and cop guts in the stand off with his father and here showed no disrespect in public, shame on the sister for putting him in such a spot... This should be an interesting follow up in future shows. Overall keep it SouthLAnd great job; hope the ratings soar!!

Get's better every week. The action and tension doesn't let up. Fantastic show!

I agree, lawnbcorder and Ranger69, as good as the pilot was, much of the primary focus was introduction and laying groundwork. This week's episode, which I thought flowed far better than what I felt was a slow-moving Mozambique, was a return to the Ben/Cooper-centric perspective. Those are the characters, primarily Ben, that I'm interested in and invested in. That's also the dynamic that seems to work best. For me, following them and watching that realistic relationship develop in fits and starts, really works. The hints at their backstory, as each reveals some, but withholds more, was the real carrot. I definitely want more. There's that give and take, the prodding from Cooper as he tries to surmise what makes Ben tick, and there's Ben's guardedness (for whatever reasons personal or professional) as he treads carefully while still under scrutiny, trying to prove himself and be accepted. There's so much more than either one is letting on, although Ben is more obvious with his avoidance of questions and redirects. It's fascinating to watch them learn from one another- and not just in a training officer/probationary or charge sort of way, and to learn about one another.

In this episode, the show really did get better- especially with the fluctuating comfort zone between Ben and Cooper and the glimpses into the personal sides of the story. That only makes the other action and tension all the more heightened. There's so much to build upon and explore now, and the writers have made me want more and care more deeply. Now I'm hungry for immediate follow up and continuation next week, whatever else might be in the mix. And since I know I missed many details, I definitely need to watch again.

Definitely a must see!

Definitely my favorite episode thus far. I preferred the Sherman/Cooper centric story to last weeks.

One thing I'd really like to know, is the location where they shot the dead end alleyway.
(132 & Genesee doesn't seem to actually exist)

Finally caught the episode ................... Holy c*w !!!!
How did they put so much stuff in One hour. I am loving this show.
If I didn't have a DVR I think I would go crazy......... ( can't wait to see it again ).
I think that Trans-bender was hotter than me ! ! ! ! !

I watched Southland last night and love the show. But do they need to really do all the bleeping out the words? Either not write the words in or don't bleep them. It is on at 9PM CT so shouldn't kids be in bed? Thank You for this new show!!

Loved the latest episode, there is so much to learn about Ben's past and Cooper's as well. I agree that the sister really put Ben in a bad position when he arrived at dinner and the dad was there, can't wait to see more of that extended-family dynamic!
I wish the whole show could center around Cooper and Ben, but I know the other cast members need air time too...
I do think that there is something really creepy and wrong with the Detective Russell character...

Yeah, about that cast......who played the part of the Dept. Therapist in the episode "See The Woman"? I've seen her on another show and cannot think of her name. Can someone please help?

Be Interesting if Dewey got busted for at least one of his transgressions either the letting the actor go of conduct undecomeing

This is the only cast listed at imdb: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1406932/fullcredits#cast

Episode Cast (in credits order)

Kevin Alejandro ... Det. Nate Moretta

Arija Bareikis ... Ofcr. Chickie Brown

Michael Cudlitz ... Officer John Cooper

Shawn Hatosy ... Det. Sammy Bryant

Regina King ... Det. Lydia Adams

Michael McGrady ... Det. Daniel 'Sal' Salinger

Ben McKenzie ... Ofcr. Ben Sherman

Tom Everett Scott ... Det. Russell Clarke

rest of cast listed alphabetically:

Willam Belli ... Sheila

Shelli Boone ... Girl #2

John J. Dalesandro ... Brian

Taylor Handley ... Wade

Nichelle Hines ... Girl #1

C. Thomas Howell ... Ofcr. Billy Dewey

Emily Kosloski ... Hooker

Barry Alan Levine ... Brian's Lawyer

David Pearl ... Detective

Glen Powell Jr. ... Billy Sherman

Tom Sizemore

Yeah, I saw that list, too. She isn't listed in either one......bummer. It's really odd because she's in one of the very first scenes with the main character. You would think they would at least give her credit. I sent an email to nbc.com. Maybe they will answer.........not!

Let me pass it up through my end and see if I can find someone who can ask about her...no promises, but, I'll try.

JD

Lexuslady - I believe the name of the actress who played Ben's therapist was Ally Walker; she had a long-running show of her own called Profiler where she played a forensic psychologist, and before that I believe she was on a daytime soap where she garnered quite a following, if I remember right. She's a terrific actress.

Right off the bat I have to say that Southland is an awesome show. I really think that the writers have been doing a very good job in creating some deep characters.

Last week's episode was particularly excellent. The Cooper/Ben dynamic is really great. Ben is a rookie cop, but his background means that he's not naive or blindly idealistic. So while Cooper is very much his mentor, it's not in the classic worldly older cop partnered with wide-eyed rookie kind of way. Their somewhat tense dynamic is very interesting to watch, because you can tell that they both like each other but the trust level in their partnership is still developing. Ben is definitely better off than poor Chickie is with Dewey! Talk about having a bad partner!

The use of the hand cam is really good in a lot of these scenes. Ben chasing the crooks in particular was well-done in this format because the shaky view, as it added to the sense of urgency in the chase in a way that a steady cam view wouldn't have given.

I also really like the way Cooper is developing. He's such a study in contrasts. On the one hand he's a cynical, hard-bitten veteran cop. But on the other he does genuinely seem to care about people. He was tough on the fighting couple but was much more gentle when speaking to their kids. Even more striking was the scene with the drag queen. The classic image of the interaction between cops and drag queens is a hostile. Cooper was very kind, especially in retrieving the wig, despite the pain in his back. He's a tough cop, but he's not a jerk.

Ben turning around and walking out of the restaurant rather than greeting his father was a powerful scene. He's another great character. Becoming a cop is a major life decision, but it makes it very clear that Ben has a strong sense of self-identity despite his youth.

Hopefully we'll see more of Chickie as well, as I really like her.

Great stuff and Southland is on my TiVo To Do List.

okay... so there is a little part of Dewey in all of us, am I right? We all wish that we could be a total ass at work, and say what we really think... am I right? (and being attractive doesn't hurt either, does it?) Let's show Dewey the love here! Who's with me?

Hey, all, this is my first time posting, and mostly, I was driven to do so because of a lack of information about my favorite "SouthLAnd" character, Officer Billy Dewey!

I enjoy the character because, while he's not very likable, he comes off as a very real, gritty character with a sarcastic, dark sense of humor.

I've been really impressed by C. Thomas Howell's performance -- I feel that he's really thrown himself wholeheartedly into the role, which I think is more difficult than playing a politically correct or likable character, since many things that Dewey says and does aren't exactly comfortable to watch, let alone say and do!

I am curious as to whether NBC is going to publish more information or photos concerning this character. I'd really like to see some information, and while I appreciate that the show's (and the network's) focus is on the main characters, it'd be nice to show a little love to we Dewey fans with some more info!

You make some good points about the show and the characters, Psionycx. Like you, I thought See the Woman was an excellent episode, certainly an improvement over Mozambique, which had some standout scenes, but a somewhat tedious pace that left me working to remain interested- something I certainly didn't expect after the pilot, which just had me wanting more of the same. Maybe it was the lack of continuity with Ben and all that had been introduced in the pilot, but was then glossed over so quickly in episode 2, much to my disappointment. We only had hints of the events and characterization from the pilot, and not much of the burgeoning dynamic between Ben and Cooper.

This episode grabbed and held my attention right at the beginning with Ben at the therapist's and all the contradictions between Ben's words and his expressions and body language with the palpable avoidance, tension and discomfort. Focusing on Ben and Cooper as officers and personalities is what made it all click for me. As you observe, both are such compelling and layered characters in their own right, and doubly so together. That relationship is the heart and soul for me and the glue that holds everything together. You offer some very accurate insights into them and it's very intriguing to watch them bond in fits and starts, while finding some middle ground and circling around a sense of trust with roles that are somewhat fixed and determined, but are still evolving.

As for Chickie, poor thing is right. I've liked what I've seen so far between her and Ben, since she was really the first to reach out to him to some degree I wonder if she'll confide in him at all, since she seemed to hope he'd do so about his past and family when he politely closed the door on that topic.

The hand cam was much more effective in this episode, especially in the chase scene. That really brought it to life right at eye level. The scene had a very interactive feel to it that definitely made it inclusive and very engaging- a perfect use and fit.

Whatever new crimes are introduced in the field in the coming weeks, I'll be much more intrigued to discover more about these characters, starting with Ben, then Cooper, and how they their own relationship and acceptance of one another changes. See the Woman made me very hungry for that. It was the episode that combined the so-called "job" with the people the best so far.

Chime in if you're a fan of the character!

I think Dewey is easily one of the most interesting (and polarizing!) characters on the show. I can't wait for more background on him. I'm hoping the writers are shocking us into disliking him only to reel us in with an interesting back story.

It also doesn't hurt that C. Thomas Howell plays him. I think he's fantastic in this role.

Definite kudos to the camera team during the chase scene - some great handheld stuff with the Red! I'm really liking the look of the Red One on this show - glad to see more shows using it.

I loved Dewey's storyline - I really hope the writers are setting us up to hate him, then showing us the good sides of him. Kind of reminds me of Romano on ER - lots of fan hate, but then the little moments that creep out that remind you this is a real person, wearing a veneer of sorts (I'm specifically thinking of the moment when Romano signed to Reece in one ER episode). I'd love to see that kind of stuff with Dewey. Just don't drop a chopper on him please.

I also love the Sherman/Cooper character development. Whereas Dewey gets my vote for comic relief, Cooper is definitely shaping up to be one of the most interesting characters on TV.

It definitely has it's uses, and this is one of them. As televisions have gotten bigger and bigger especially, it kind of adds to the immersion in the scene. Rather than an idealized superheroic chase scene we heard Ben huffing and puffing as he ran after the crooks, jumping fences and running wherever they did. The hand cam really gave me a sense of just how much of a physical exertion this would be and how tense such a foot chase could be.

Any kind of steady cam would have been more idealized and allowed a better view of the actors and setting, but at the cost of the immediacy of the chase. A real person, especially someone who's running, does not have a perfect, steady view of things. This helped make the scene more first person rather than third person.

Very much a nice touch.

Same here. I think he adds another dimension to the show and his character deserves to be further developed. It would be so disappointing to see his character's arc brought to an end so abruptly when there is so much more that could be done with him.

This could be my admiration for C. Thomas Howell speaking, but what can I say? When he plays a character, he really embodies that person which always impresses me.

I totally agree! Dewey just seems so damn real sometimes it scares me.

I love that I can go from feeling uncomfortable with Dewey's remarks and attitudes, to wanting to slap him silly, to laughing at some of his comments, to laughing at HIM. It's a great ride. I just hope he sticks around long enough to develop him more and show the hidden sides of his character. There's so much great stuff that can be done with him, I think.

I think his relationship with Chickie would be a great thing to explore. When she said she was the only one that would work with him, I could believe it - and I wanted to know why. What'd he do to his previous partners that this woman is the only one who'll put up with him? What's up with her that she can?

I see a potential Dewey/Chickie/Sherman triangle too.

SO many possibilities. If Dewey bites it, I'll be really disappointed.

I don't remember seeing "Billy Sherman" at the restaurant....did I miss him?

Since Ben and Cooper are frontline (patrolmen) at least we are assured they will be in most scenes as new crimes emerge, and that's always a good thing so we can see how their relationship is changing and evolving.

Of all I’ve read of the love for Dewey’s character on these boards, all I can do is chime in (ha ha, very punny.)

C. Thomas Howell is such a wonderful actor; no one actor embodies so inseparably at such a tender age such a legendary character in modern literature as he did with Ponyboy in The Outsiders without some amazing talent. I have loved him for 25 years.

And now this fabulous show (again – the casting is genius here) and he is just his typical brilliant. Seeing his character is almost like watching a wild bird beat its wings inside a cage. Dewey is bursting with everything – mania, addiction, chaos, anger, rebellion, chauvinism, fear, arrogance – what brought him to this point? What made him behave like a wild thing caught? This is why I especially want to see his character stay on this show.

I hope I am not too late in making this plea; I know most of this short season has been filmed, and I hope he has not been whacked (if he survived getting shot, why would they kill him off at season's end?) But I can’t help but notice he is not listed as a member of the cast. So okay, all you Dewey lovers, what can be done to fix this? Start a petition? Make a Dewey thread? Make a Save Dewey thread? Let’s start showing our Dewey support! Whatever drama happens in this show in the future, Dewey definitely needs to be there to contribute.

Well, I thoroughly loved this episode more than any of the others - which says a great deal, as this show has pleasantly surprised me with more character development than I have ever seen in a show about law enforcement. All of the episodes have been fantastically done and excellent to watch.

As I said on another thread, Ben McKenzie was the only reason I gave this show a chance, since other scripted crime shows tend to be somewhat unrealistic, but I am so impressed with this show independent of Ben that it would have my viewership and curiosity anyway. The decision to make him in particular such an integral part of the show only proves to me the powers-that-be are on the right track.

That being said, I anticipate less of a concentration in the future of Ben's plotline as his character's story arc is used to reveal the stories of the other participants in this hidden world. I don't want to see that happen, but I expect it. And I really do love these other characters, and I want to know their stories. So that tears it: just extend the whole thing to a solid two hours every week, no commercials. There you go, NBC. Must see TV right there.

I loved watching the performances in this episode most, I believe. A lot of compassion came out in hidden ways from Cooper, so layered one could miss them. And the love his ex-wife still had for him - I don't know that actress by name, but she communicated that empathy and distress for him and his addiction beautifully with nary an appearance and just a few little lines - only served to confirm Cooper's character depth in her lack of bitterness toward him; she must have found much in him to love him even still, which only makes him more of an enigma to me.

I was glad to see Chickie refuse to save Dewey; I really thought she would be the character with the soft heart to a fault. I do love her for her vulnerability, but to see her make weak decisions like that one would just be too predictable.

Reading over several board comments made me realize that Russell set me ill at ease as well, but never before this episode - we hardly saw him before this episode, really - and it makes me anxious to know his story. He has me quite puzzled.

Lydia showed incredible judgment in this episode in dealing with Russell; she is quite an intuitive character. I don’t think Regina King could give a bad performance, either. Casting her in anything is a smart decision.

Last but not least, Ben. Ben McKenzie is a wonderful actor; and for those gateway parts - the characters whose eyes the audience must see this new world through - Ben accomplishes this better than anyone on the big or small screen. He is not limited to these parts, of course; I’ve also seen him in other parts play disturbing so thoroughly he could leave a rock in your stomach. But with this episode Ben’s performance expertly brought out his character’s newfound machismo (specifically in the counseling scene), as if taking refuge behind the badge and incorporating the attitudes and gruffness that can accompany it is going to psychologically get him beyond his past in a way nothing else ever has (part of his motive for joining the force in the first place, from what I’ve seen.) I loved seeing that – it did not look at all like a natural disposition for Ben Sherman’s personality, and it was so deftly played as a behavior unnatural to him but all the same assumed by someone desperately hoping that “if I act tough, maybe I really will be tough soon . . .” The tragedy of such a notion being that in spite of all of the insults and preconceived notions and injustices done, the stubbornness of his constitution backing his wide-eyed reception of life and the vulnerability and compassion that set his determination in the first place – the very things that guaranteed his survival – verify his strength, a fact that he cannot see in himself and is desperately trying to hide from the world his fear that in himself, strength could be nonexistent. I do not think we have heard all of his story about what happened to him that night – nor will we, the subject might be done where the writers are concerned – but I think more happened to him and his mother, and it should be developed further and revealed in the future. While I do think the ordeal a nightmare just in what we know, there is something unsaid that makes me think that as bad as what we know things to have been, more is behind that story. Good God, I shudder to think of what. I could be wrong.

And now, a plea:

Of all I’ve read of the love for Dewey’s character on these boards, all I can do is chime in (ha ha, very punny.) C. Thomas Howell is such a wonderful actor; no one actor embodies so inseparably at such a tender age such a legendary character in modern literature as he did with Ponyboy in The Outsiders without some amazing talent. I have loved him for 25 years. And now this fabulous show (again – the casting is genius here) and he is just his typical brilliant. Seeing his character in this episode was almost like watching a wild bird beat its wings inside a cage. Dewey is bursting with everything – mania, addiction, chaos, anger, rebellion, chauvinism, fear, arrogance – what brought him to this point? What made him behave like a wild thing caught? This is why I especially want to see his character stay on this show. I hope I am not too late in making this plea; I know most of this short season has been filmed, and I hope he has not been whacked (if he survived getting shot, why would they kill him off then?) But I can’t help but notice he is not listed as a member of the cast. So okay, all you Dewey lovers, what can be done to fix this? Start a petition? Make a Dewey thread? Make a Save Dewey thread? Let’s start showing our Dewey support! Whatever drama happens in this show in the future, Dewey definitely needs to be there to contribute.

Sorry to make this so ungodly long!

I guess that the challenge lay in what role Dewey would play in the series. Given the emphasis on gritty realism it could get hard to explain how a screw-up like him manages to remain on the force. He's a great character but it kind of jumps the shark that he somehow hangs on to his badge. One could argue that he was cruising to retirement and thus was getting a pass. But if he were to stick around they'd need to explain how he manages it.

Chickie is already fed up with him, which I was pleased to see since the stereotype of the devoted female caregiver who sacrifices herself for a messed up guy is tired. She clearly has drawn a line in the sand as to just how much she's willing to put up with.

Cooper visibly holds Dewey in contempt. That's not a big surprise given how serious Cooper is about the job. There was a subtle symbolic message in the way he took Dewey's badge off of him.

Ben seems to be following Cooper's lead on this one. Given that he is very motivated in his crusade to become a cop it's predictable. Cooper may push Ben's buttons, but his commitment is unquestionable. So even when Ben is annoyed at Cooper he knows he's a role model cop and deserving of respect. Dewey is the class clown. Ben seemed to find Dewey's predicament even funnier than Cooper did.

That said, it does kind of balance the three very professional uniformed officers to have a fourth who is kind of messed up. Whatever other problems they have in their lives Ben, Cooper and Chickie are living up to the badges. Dewey is kind of a antithesis to that, someone isn't professional, even to the point where it got him shot.

So especially after last week, what does everyone think would be the best way to use him? Just to stimulate discussion.

Sorry to repeat myself about that - was trying to make it a new topic, it didn't work and now I can't figure how to remove it. Anyways. (If anyone can give me a heads up that would be awesome.)

Psionycx, you make an excellent point. I still want him to stay, but having read your point of view, if he doesn't, I will be able to see the logic of that, too. I seriously didn't think he survived the first episode, actually.

And you are so observant! I didn't even notice the part where Cooper removed his badge. I thought he was removing the keys to the handcuffs from his shirt pocket, which Dewey had been too drunk to remember he had. I did notice Ben's reaction to the situation and how he took his cues accordingly. When it would be easier on the conscience to rescue Dewey, one can only imagine after these guys let him take the consequences instead that he had destroyed their guilt about doing so long ago.

Your insight, also, as to the character balances of the good cops/bad cop in the cast were especially well put. I had not even thought that through. You are a keen one, indeed.

In terms of the "new topic," BluDhalia92, I'm guessing you weren't asking about starting that, since that button is in the lower left. I'm not always sure where things are on these boards, but I did see that. In terms of removing or deleting a post, I'm not sure what your options are when you return to your post to try to edit and such. It's probably moot now, anyway!

I wanted to tell you that I enjoyed reading your post from earlier this evening and that we're on the same page in many ways. Like you, I started watching for Ben McKenzie and his character. That's still the case in terms of him being the draw for me and the most compelling character hands down. I've also enjoyed watching his layered dynamic with Cooper unfold and really enjoy that relationship and both those characters. Putting Chickie in the mix, both separately with Ben occasionally so far, and with the sets of partners has worked well. Regina King is a welcome addition who was an unknown to me. Sammy is someone who appeals in small doses. Russell is someone I'm unsettled by and simply have no interest in. Yeah, there we part company!

As Psionycx pointed out, and you reiterated, Ben was certainly taking his cues from Cooper when they caught Dewey with his pants down- or off, actually- literally. Of course, he'd be following his training officer's directives and lead in all situations. He's very much in the suboordinate role as the "new kid" who is in watch-and-learn mode while on the job. Even as some of the tense and rigid boundaries soften somewhat (and Ben would have to follow Cooper's lead on this too, not remove them himself as he reacts to any changing behavior and tone), certain things about their roles are clearly defined. Considering that Dewey barely acknowledges Ben (and that seems to be more the case since the shooting, so it makes me want a scene where Dewey maybe expresses some of what could be anyone's guess in terms of his feelings towards Ben, especially because he was shot after reprimanding Ben while doing the weapons search), I find it hard to believe that Ben had any idea how to proceed other than by the book, and probably wouldn't have laughed until basically drawn in and given "permission" by Cooper. Suddenly, it wasn't Cooper and Dewey, as had been the case before, but it was Cooper and Ben.

Obviously, police officers are human and certainly fallible in any situation. They will all make mistakes, regardless of experience. Some may take more liberties with time. Dewey has definitely pushed the envelope and burned some bridges. Juxtaposing him (in minor ways) vs. Ben, Cooper and Chickie could sometimes be a vehicle for providing some insight into their characters and changing relationships. There's only so much a Dewey could get away with and have people turn a blind eye. He's compromising fellow officers and the citizens he's sworn to protect. For the sake of realism, if he's going to be a recurring character in a supporting role, then he might best be a device to offset the others. Having him constantly committing major infractions won't work. He could be someone who helps Cooper value Ben more and add to that dynamic as well as someone who makes Chickie more of a confidant to both Ben and Cooper- something we've already seen.

I'll be curious to see what last week's antics have meant to Ben and Cooper, especially, and how we'll see that reflected. More importantly, I'd like to see how they build on the personal exchange that Cooper was relentlessly trying to secure throughout that entire day. He finally succeeded at the very last opportunity, only to have Ben keep to some terse, censored facts and abruptly draw the line while only answering the "Why did you learn to shoot?" in the most evasive sense while ignoring all the rest that Cooper had both asked outright and implied. As you said earlier, ILB, This is certainly true, but that setting of driving to a crime scene or focusing more- or solely- on the task at hand can't provide the same sort of backstory. Those moments have to be more private and somewhat more casual. Let's hope for some of both?

I think Dewey has the same appeal as a character like Officer Ryan in Crash - a guy that does these unbelievable things, and hopefully in the end we'll see the humanity.

I think they could go so many ways with Dewey - the comic relief, the guy you love to hate, the screw up, all of that - but I think what I'd most like to see is how his actions affect his job. Why isn't he fired? Is there someone keeping him around? Why? Did he do something so damn awesome in the past that the brass overlook his antics? Does no one report up the chain when he screws up? Why or why not?

There's just so much available there, I think.

I'd also love to see a good side. I said in another post he's like the Romano from ER on this show. I think seeing the good side of Dewey will ultimately come from his relationship and partnership with Chickie. I love that she didn't go save him from himself.

I want to see the side of Dewey that's a good cop - and I want to know why he's a jerk to most people. There could be so many great explanations for why he is the way he is.

Maybe someone can shed some insight into something that's been bothering me about Dewey since the second episode. It seems like Dewey was in pretty bad shape at the end of the first episode, having taken several gunshots. When they showed him on the stretcher with EMT's working on him, I was under the impression that he was severely wounded. So imagine my surprise when I see him at the beginning of the the second episode up and about and back to work so quickly after being shot. It couldn't have been more than a few weeks. Maybe somebody noticed something I didn't.

Well, the whole shooting was barely touched on in terms of follow through. We knew by the time Ben went to the hospital and saw Chickie that Dewey was going to be "okay," without any elaboration. Certainly, with C.T.H. as a guest star and the Dewey character in a supporting role, the primary focus wasn't on him, although we needed to know his status. how costly his mistake, and if he'd be returning to duty. There didn't seem to be any timeline to nail down for a recovery.

Then there was the other aspect of the shooting, since Dewey put Ben in a very precarious position on his first day. It was obvious, even to the photographer who was watching, that Ben was very unsettled and affected by the evening's events. If he was that unnerved, I find it hard to believe that he was able to compose himself immediately to deal with investigators as they arrived. Then again, maybe he was able to, but we weren't given the opportunity.

Basically, several aspects of that significant event seemed rather rushed and unexplained. A few details, even in passing conversation at Dewey's party could have cleared up a lot. In terms of what Ben confronted afterwards, that's just plain up in the air. We just have to assume that the internal investigators accepted both Ben's and Dewey's (when interviewed) stories and that the facts matched, although I'm guessing someone in Ben's position as a probationary officer, even if he acted in the right, would have been far more intimidated by the process of the aftermath when facing his superiors than the recovering Dewey, who seems to care far less, and has decades of experience. We also don't know how Dewey feels that it was Ben, whom he'd reprimanded and prevented from conducting his search, who shot and killed the attacker.

Definitely holes...

I didn't like this episode and the reason why was because I felt like the entire show surrounded Tom Sizemore because of his guest appearance and didn't help move the story along at all.

What happened to the girl in protection? She must be dead by now sheesh...

That's very true, and I think that was a major reason for Dewey's retirement party. It brought so many characters together in a non-work setting, but mainly it gave us a glimpse of Cooper and Ben on a personal level together. Ben sees his shrink at the bar (a pre-planned meeting we can only assume), goes to talk to him and Cooper follows behind waiting at a safe distance. When Ben's turns around from talking to the therapist his body languae changes subtly when he sees Cooper has moved closer. The exchange about what Ben has revealed to his therapist takes place right in from of Chickie, drawing her into Ben's secret world just a little as he tells his story to Cooper. Although Dewey's party was somewhat boring and slow (and un-necessary since he does not retire!) it set the stage for Benn and Cooper to have one of their most revealing conversations up to that point.
We really need for this storyline to develope and rope us in even further.

I thought the same thing!

I guess the gangbanger didn't learn to shoot at the Beverly Hills Gun Club.

Now that you mention it your correct! It appears that the writers made an OOOPPPS here.

And now that we are at the season finale at least we can be glad that that is the only one. In fairness the sudden up and around was in the pilot and the first real show which distorts the time lines.

I'm guessing the credit goes to the vests they wear. The amount of blood was definitely off though, if Dewey was only hit in the chest as it seemed, and he had his vest on, where did all that blood come from? maybe he was hit once int he side...just grazed him I guess....oh the wonders of television. It would have been very helpful to the viewer though, for them to let us know the time frame from the pilot episode and the second episode. But if they leave the timing vague, they have more wiggle room to not keep up with the continuity.

It's well established that gut injuries are painful and bloody, but also not likely to be immediately lethal the way that wounds to the upper chest can be. Dewey had a vest on so some of the shots impacts would have been blunted, although one might have come in under the waistline. That would have hurt and bled, but again may not have put him close to death since he got medical treatment pretty quickly. So long as no major organs or blood vessels were damaged he could make a full recovery and it wouldn't take quite so long as if he took a hit to something vital.

The show jumped ahead a bit, because Ben was towards the end of his therapy sessions when we next see Dewey on his feet. Which, incidentally, was at a party where he was drinking heavily and doubtless feeling no pain.

SOUTHLAND
SEE THE WOMAN - VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED
08-14-2009 8:00PM

A STOLEN WEAPON AND A COVER UP-- Detective Sal Salinger’s (Michael McGrady) nightmare comes true when his car slams into a light pole and gang members steal his weapon. Gang Detectives Sammy Bryant (Shawn Hatosy) and Nate Moretta (Kevin Alejandro) arrive on the scene to help out their boss. Moretta reluctantly agrees to assist Bryant in the search for the perpetrators and Salinger's weapon without calling it in. Elsewhere, still preoccupied with her personal life, Detective Lydia Adams (Regina King) is caught off guard when a man exposes himself to her outside her home. Tom Everett Scott also stars.

Show Cast: Michael Cudlitz, Regina King, Tom Everett Scott, Michael McGrady, Shawn Hatosy, Kevin Alejandro, Arija Bareikis, Ben McKenzie

Nice recommendation for this episode - http://www.canada.com/Fine+Tuning/1892658/story.html

That is a good recommendation for the episode, and a nice compliment (I'm guessing the writer is a Russell Crowe fan) for Ben McKenzie. Since Sally was where I started in the spring, this was the first time for See the Woman. I agree with the writer that it was one of the best, probably best after the pilot. We liked it much better than last week.

The beginning was very well done and Ben McKenzie was great in that scene. Now I'm really disappointed that there weren't any I.A. scenes or scenes with the first therapist. I'm sure he would have been amazing. I was really glad to see something with a therapist, although it wasn't what I expected. I wonder how he was with the first one, since he didn't seem too happy to see the replacement. I guess he made up his mind to get out of there ASAP, and he certainly knew how to play her. Can't say I blame him, considering! Talk about role reversal. It had to be one of the shortest sessions on record and she never had any control. Even though it wasn't a real session and it didn't do Ben any good, I'd say it gave us some insights about Ben from how he handled himself and evaded her while he turned the tables.

The patrol officer stories were all really engaging. I'm still not sure what to make of Cooper's view of Ben. He doesn't seem to want to be rid of him anymore, but I'm not sure if he keeps pushing for personal information out of curiosity or as proof that Ben doesn't belong. At least some of his Richie Rich remarks weren't as cutting, mainly more sarcastic. It did seem a little confusing that Cooper was stressing why Ben learned to shoot so young when he already knew something about what had happened to Ben and his mother. That made the domestic violence questions seem pretty insensitive, whatever his motivations. The last scene between them in the parking lot showed one of the big differences between them. Cooper pushes for information and when he gives it, he doesn't hold much back. Ben is the opposite. Not only does he mind his own business, unless he's deflecting, but even when he relents and gives an answer, he says as little as possible and totally downplays anything about himself. I do hope Cooper was telling Ben his story as a show of trust, and maybe because he needed to tell him or someone, not that he was trying to one-up him. He should be trying to offer some support, not make it about himself, and there's no way Ben was telling him the whole truth, or even most of it. Guess we'll see where that goes!

What can anyone say about Dewey? After his behavior tonight (and I thought he was going to kill someone with that gun) and what he said to Chickie, I can't believe he had the nerve to call her. She really did need to cut him loose. I did like that she took a stand with him. I also liked that we got to see her at home.

The chase was well done (and we saw that no one has to tell Ben something twice). The way they had the camera moving along with Ben was cool and made it seem very real in an inclusive way. That's another thing that they do well and differently.

I had to laugh at the geat dane story. I guess that dog had some sort of adventure. Only in L.A. This whole episode used the city as another character in really creative ways. Big plus.

I'm not sure how much Ben noticed with the transgender crime victims other than Cooper's issues with his back, but he doesn't miss much. He would have seen how much his training officer changed and how gentle he was. He may not know why, but he'd have to wonder.

Meeting some of Ben's family was definitely interesting, but way too short. I thought Ben wasn't happy to see Wade(?) again at all, since he seemed really annoyed. Who wouldn't be? If he wasn't too thrilled with his sister then, he must have been really upset that she brought Dad along. What a look and what a way to end. Yeah, there's a good story there if they're still not on speaking terms.

The down side of the episode? The detectives. If I needed a reason to want creepy Russell gone, there were plenty. That was the only time the episode dragged. As my husband said, "creepy and boring is lethal." I think he summed it up! The rest will get a second viewing at least, maybe more.

Somehow, I missed the voiceover intro when I watched live tonight. When I went back to see most of it again (okay, everything except the Russell parts), I heard it, so I was watching with that in mind. Ben and Cooper aren't anything like Dewey, but they're more alike than anyone thought.

During most of the pilot, I was kind of grouping Cooper and Dewey, but they don't have anything in common other than experience. I liked watching while Cooper kept reminding Ben how different they were, while tossing more questions at Ben all day. It was interesting to find out that two people separated by so much might have some things in common. Who knows what Ben was thinking in the beginning, or now, but Cooper probably couldn't imagine that he and Ben could be alike at all. They both have secrets, absentee dads and neither one would be a fan of Father's Day, or of "sleazy defense attorneys" who might help rapists, murderers, or drug dealers who could also be rapists and murderers.

Cooper said something about being a cop because it was the best paying job he could get from his background, and that may be true, but his father has to factor in. The conclusion Ben let the therapist reach about what happened in his childhood and his career choice has to be an oversimplification until lots of questions are answered, but there's still that childhood and father part involved.

That write up is a good, accurate one, and I definitely liked See the Woman better than Mozambique. I don't know if it that's because it was more patrol officer centric, and I'm invested in those characters, or because it flowed so much better. They seemed to have gotten it right in terms of pace and striking a balance between some compelling drama and more light moments. That dramedy combination really worked.

The first scene with Ben and the so-called therapist was the sort I'd been hoping for, among others, the week before, even if it was different than I'd expected. Ben McKenzie played it so well, from the determined facade to the brief glimpses of vulnerability and discomfort. He played it better than Ben Sherman played the therapist, and he sure did play her and dictate that session. She may have been going through the motions because it was his last visit, and his only one with her, but no matter how new she was, she should have recommended that he continue- but with someone else! That was a fascinating exchange to watch.

I'm still not sure, even after seeing the episode again, what to make of some of the changes between Ben and Cooper vs. what is somewhat the same. Ben no longer uses the formal "sir" in his responses, but Cooper still baits and taunts Ben about his background. It's hard to tell how much is fishing, how much is testing, and how much is for Cooper's entertainment. Ben's as evasive and guarded as ever, still keeping his cool and keeping his mouth shut, until he's pushed too far and sees no option but to again give "just the facts," and the barest facts. It's true that he downplays anything related to him. It's almost like he relents, but is talking about someone else.

You raise a good question about Cooper's motives for his own revelation. As Ben's training officer, he should be responsible for Ben's pyschological state as it pertains to his ability to do his job. He may not like Ben or care about him personally, but there is still some obligation to provide some support. I wasn't sure if he was trying to show some trust that had been missing, or if he was unburdening himself. Like you said, I hope he wasn't making it a contest, especially since it's obvious that Ben has only said as little as possible. We'll have to see what unfolds, but now they know they have something that connects them that transcends many of the things, such as age, education, status, etc., that separate them.

That dog did get around and that was just one example of incorporating the fabric and the rather unpredictable, bizarre personality and character of the city. Having the movie/show set within the larger show was good creative touch too. Only in L.A. would there be that sort of surreal situation, which is so fitting.

I liked seeing some stronger and different sides of Chickie. She needed to stand up to Dewey the disaster, especially after she'd stood by him and paid the price. She has to think of herself, and she has a child to support, something else that we didn't know about her.

It was interesting to see Chickie become more allied with Ben and with Cooper, with Dewey as the odd man out- of his doing. Ben's not quite the outsider or the perceived interloper to the same extent. We saw it with Chickie, at the party with Ben and Cooper as a team and Dewey in a compromising position, and then there was the parking lot scene. That last one answered some questions, but raised some really big ones.

The closing scene, and that final image were very powerful. If Ben and his father aren't on speaking terms, even in public, that has to be some history. It could also be that Ben knew it wasn't the time or the place, so he tried to make the decision that would cause the least damage- especially to himself. That's another "wait and see," but it was very well done in terms of the acting.

ITA that the only time I lost interest was during the Russell scenes. I'm not sure if he was supposed to be viewed as sympathetic with the sister, but it was creepy and unsettling. It was also just boring, as you pointed out. Maybe the scenes weren't that long, but they sure seemed like it! Without those, it was such a strong episode with good, even doses of emotion and entertainment.

I had the same feeling about this episode being much more balanced and flowing so much better than most. Overall, I also put it second only to the pilot. I'm also not sure about how much was because it was centered on characters (and sort of on stories, in a roundabout way) I was invested in and how much was the episode. If there's any truth to the spin in one of those links from greengo78 about "script woes," any rewriting would result in something like the pilot and this episode. But who knows where the truth lies?

This was well framed with the voiceover and there was drama and something more like comedy, even if it did still suffer some of the same pitfalls of some other episodes with the clarity of the writiing. Some of that is because it followed Mozambique, which failed to follow up the pilot in the ways that mattered. So much for continuity. That made the tasks in this episode more challenging.

The first scene with Ben and the questionable therapist was great to watch because of Ben. He delivered big time. Not so much because of the therapist or that actress. It did raise a litany of questions and draw attention to some serious gaping holes on the downside, especially in terms of everything that came before and we missed.

I liked watching Ben's dynamic with Cooper, but I'm wondering what the writers had in mind with the parking lot exchange that Ben so obviously was trying to avoid and Cooper was pushing. Ben still wasn't speaking freely and certainly didn't want to address the subject or any of Cooper's prying. I've seen it more than once and I'm still questioning what the result was supposed to be, since we learned very little about Ben and what might have happened to him, and Cooper seemed very overbearing in comparison, but with nothing to show for pressuring Ben, unless you count Ben telling him to back off.

The great dane was some great comic relief and a good way to use the city as a backdrop and a character combined.

We got to see Ben's father, but not technically meet him. Too bad we didn't see anything at all related to that really powerful last image until 3 weeks later, and that was disappointing even without the time that had passed to kill the momentum.

You're so right about the episode dragging only once. Russell... At least with a rerun, I knew when to walk away!

So true about the only dragging coming during the looooooooong Russell scenes. Thank God for knowing when they were coming. Avoiding those was so much better!

I agree that episode was among the most balanced and flowed well. They seemed to get it right. The fact that it had the burden of following Mozambique and the glaring mistakes were an issue. In some ways, it was too late to back up and show what should have come in that episode without really switching gears. It was possible, but I guess too much of a challenge.

I really did love watching Ben with the clueless, careless therapist. If she was that disinterested in her doing her job and helping him or that overwhelmed, she deserved to be steamrolled by him. It's too bad he's the one who would be paying the real price. However, after seeing Westside again, I really do wish, as some have also said, that this episode had come next. Then, on top of that, if Dr. Breslow/the first therapist was still there, maybe there would have been just a little more about the trauma from Ben's childhood. Any little bit would have helped. That would have been the way to lead in to the home invasions on the Westside. It also would have been the perfect way to give us some information about Ben and what happened in his childhood and less emphasis on the crime at Daisy's, even if they used the current crimes as a vehicle to tell some of Ben's story, not hers. No one was invested in her, not even Ben!

If Cooper hadn't been so relentless, negative and abrasive in his questioning, ending in the parking lot, Ben might not have been so tightly guarded and defensive. Too much pushing and pressure had that affect with Ben, since he'd already been insulted and grilled, especially about a very sensitive issue for him with painful memories. If there was a different tone and approach, he may have said something more, which also could have been used in Westside, even if it was for background with Ben's parents or part of Cooper's question after the confrontation at Ben's mother's house.

The same continuity and momentum applied to Ben's friendly, father-of-the-year father. After seeing him for the first time at the end of See the Woman, following that with Westside would have worked much better. All of the scenes with Ben and Ben Sr. were random and way too short. That's such a shame, because the actors did a great job with the limited time and material.