SOUTHLAND
TWO GANGS
05-07-2009 10:00PM
05-09-2009 9:00PM

A STOLEN WEAPON AND A COVER UP-- Detective Sal Salinger’s (Michael McGrady) nightmare comes true when his car slams into a light pole and gang members steal his weapon. Gang Detectives Sammy Bryant (Shawn Hatosy) and Nate Moretta (Kevin Alejandro) arrive on the scene to help out their boss. Moretta reluctantly agrees to assist Bryant in the search for the perpetrators and Salinger's weapon without calling it in. Elsewhere, still preoccupied with her personal life, Detective Lydia Adams (Regina King) is caught off guard when a man exposes himself to her outside her home. Tom Everett Scott also stars.

Show Cast: Michael Cudlitz, Regina King, Tom Everett Scott, Michael McGrady, Shawn Hatosy, Kevin Alejandro, Arija Bareikis, Ben McKenzie

Can't Wait

On 2nd review looks like the street cops are in this one, albeit in a minor way. I guess I'll watch but I'm not expecting much.

The premise of this one perplexes me. What kind of "weapon" did Sal have in the car, a Stinger missile?

With all the gang activity just south of the border, to say nothing of within L.A. County, I fail to see why one lost weapon is a big deal. There must be thousands floating around! And we haven't had long enough to connect with Sal as a character where his career is a big issue, at least for me.

Psionycx
By your logic none of us should have cared for any of the characters in the Pilot as we knew nothing about them either. A Stinger vs. Handgun? Either one can take a life. One takes many at once, the other... one at a time, but a weapon none the less. There are other ramifications to a police officer losing his gun that goes beyond the question of whether or not it might be used by others to take a life. Enough said, you seem to have a lot of opinions that are not well thought out.

More people get shot per year in L.A. County than in all of Canada! So really my question is linked to the images on the previews. I have a hard time imagining a major canvasing for a single missing gun in a city where there untold tens of thousands of guns floating around undocumented. If they could do that I would imagine that they'd be able to do it a lot more often and wouldn't have so much trouble catching and searching suspects. The premise just seems a little "off" to me.

So that means that the implication is that it is important because a lost weapon could lose Sal his job. But didn't we already see a variation of that plot device a couple of weeks ago, when Dewey's sidearm ended up as a fashion accessory for the girl at the party? That situation was neatly dealt with by Cooper, but this sounds like a remake. Given that we have yet to really get to know Sal as a character is him possibly losing his job a real seat-grabber?

I just have concerns about this based on the previews. A proper assessment will have to wait until tomorrow night.

I believe a police officer who loses a weapon could potentially be held liable (civilly if not criminally) for anything done with that weapon (i.e. murder). Without watching this show I can't say for sure what happens but I think if a gun goes missing the department has to make the best effort they can to recover it and get it off the street.

And if they turn the gun on him, that would be quite a nightmare. But I agree with Psionycx, the premise sounds odd.

From what little I understand, I do believe the weapon and its ammunition are heavily registered and therefore more traceable when confiscated. It is bad to lose it, most definitely, but it can leave a loud trail for anyone committing a gun crime with it as opposed to regular fire arms.

I gotta say that Lydia is awesome....I didn't know what she was gonna do....I was scared for a minute.

Secondly, Det. Salinger's accident was legit, meaning it wasn't his fault and he should've taken the breathalyzer like he suggested. Instead he and the other detective were both influenced by Det. "Dummy" Bryant, who gets on to his idiotic wife for smoking weed but won't follow protocol and report a gun stolen? And here comes the abuse of authority with all the "disturbing the peace" searches and arrests. I don't think I like this Bryant guy. But I do like those "garbage calls". I can't believe this woman called 9-1-1 to show her daughter what happens when you use it. Yes it makes sense, but only if it weren't abuse of the system, and it was. Couldn't she be arrested for that?

I think the Detectives finally meshed with this episode...congrats!

The line of the night though had to be...

"A UFO crash landed now you have to keep moving..."

After last week, any expectations I had for Two Gangs were definitely minimal. I had resigned myself to being satisfied if we had Ben and Cooper in at least two scenes. We did- but barely. Of their four "garbage calls," only the last one had any real interaction and included more than a minute or so of screen time. I did like Ben's question about the cat. However Cooper responded, mostly in jest, it was also clear that Ben's concern wasn't only a way of engaging the battling couple to make them think, but was more genuine. Maybe it's his own way of remembering what it was like to be in the middle of a combat zone in his own home as a kid. Of course, until we see more of his family and learn more about that, it's all speculation.

The drive-by past the kid with the radar sign was cute, but a missed opportunity, I thought, for some kind of exchange between Cooper and Ben since the boy, like Ben, is an attorney's son. The 911 call provided a look into something that patrol officers would face, but I was disappointed that there wasn't more to it, especially afterwards, with Cooper either relaying other similar experiences about "crying wolf," or using some examples to provide some instruction and give Ben the chance to ask some questions. At least in the tattoo parlor, we had more time, and some layered exchanges, both between Cooper and the "victim of misspelling," about the gender/homosexual question and between Ben and Cooper again regarding a question about Ben's past. What was missing then, and in each case, was the next step. I thought we were going to get it after the first "garbage call," when Cooper outright asked Ben what he "wanted to talk about." When we last saw them, both on patrol and in the parking lot, they weren't exactly at a point to spend a whole shift just shooting the breeze. There was too much tension, definitely some distance, and no true comfort zone. I really wish we'd been able to see how that has changed and what the cause was.

I wasn't sure what to make of Lydia and Stanley at the beginning, but the way that ended was something I never saw coming. Stanely might be more twisted than a pretzel, but he gets points for not giving up. I had to laugh at that despite the gravity of his offense and the potential. All in a day's work.

I have to confess that I'm just not invested enough, or even interested in the detectives to follow their story closely. I'm guessing we were supposed to be watching how they could use real cohesion and close ranks, along with the ethical dilemma for one of two very different partners, but I couldn't make myself care. Much of it didn't seem to add up, although if I was supposed to be even more turned off by Sal bending the rules and inciting others to do so as he avoided responsibility, then I was. I'd rather not think that would be the motivation for certain behavior and for abusing power, even if the outcome seemed to fit a Machiavellian pattern for some. The theme of crossing lines was there, but it seemed to get as blurry as the lines themselves. When it came to Sal losing his badge or the state of his extra-marital affair, I wasn't at all concerned. Again, that was the slow moving part of the program as I found myself awaiting the next scene that would feature Ben and Cooper, or something with the detectives that would ignite more of a spark- or even incorporate the patrol officers and the detectives.

I had read that there was supposed to be more with Ben's family in this episode, but apparently that was changed. That's another major disappointment. At least there was some Ben/Cooper dynamic as they passed through. I would have preferred to follow them far more closely with more balance between them and the detectives. The presence was very uneven yet again, but having them at all meant that the episode didn't drag nearly as much as Sally in the Alley.

Thumbs up for seeing some of the supporting cast of detectives, since I like two of them better than the main male group. There was less of Russell, so that's a positive. Having Ben and Cooper back on the screen, however briefly, was a plus. Having no indication of how and why their relationship has evolved, which we've been cheated out of, was a minus. No follow up still to their last shift and the conversation in the parking lot, which it seems has been forgotten after all of Cooper's prodding and Ben's evasion, goes in the negative column. Continuity counts for them, not just for the detectives' relationships, affairs, etc.

I agree with you Cheffaking..about the Mother teaching her daughter about 911..I just knew they were going to arrest her, or at the very least give her butt a ticket! lol I love Lydia (Regina King) too!
NBC has a winner with this new show!

Unfortunitly I agree

I don't know...

"Assault with a deadly animal" was pretty good too

Cudlitz/Cooper definitely had the two best lines. It's a toss up between the "deadly animal," (and the poor cat, right?) and the "UFO." With experience comes wisdom, or maybe free time to come up with the quotes? Deadpan works so well.

The funny thing was at the tattoo parlor. So unrealistic because the artist usually lets you look at the outline in the mirror before he starts his work. But the thing about it was, it was suppose to be "Denise", but he spelled "Dennse" and even that was spelled wrong. Well, at least I recall seeing it D-E-N-N-S-E.

Clearly a very low-end tattoo parlor. Especially when you ask to have words put on they usually ask you to write the words down, particularly if they include proper names, so as to make sure they've got the spelling you want.

It was a cute scene although Cooper loses points for body positioning. Never stand with your chest parallel to a person you suspect might charge you. Always keep a slight angle with the forward leg bearing your weight and the rear one ready to buckle. Also keep the rear arm drawn slightly back so you can lift it to strike or avoid a bearhug. This is martial arts 101. I expect more from a cop.

"Garbage calls" is a good term for a day full of time-wasters. I just wish that it had translated into some better dialogue between Cooper and Ben. Their banter is usually pretty entertaining. I'm also unhappy that there was no Chickie. I really like her.

Lydia was, as always, fabulous. Compassionate, yet tough. I love how she managed to recover her kindliness, after busting the perv. I do wonder if they're trying to use her as a contrast between the mindset of the male detectives and a female such as her.

The guys were into a weird space of moral ambiguity this week. That Sammy has trouble explaining to his wife that, as a cop, he's no longer as pro-weed as he might have been as a teenager is odd. They seem like a very mismatched couple. She's almost girlish, immature like a teenager and neurotic to boot.

There was more ambiguity to the whole Sal storyline. Was the fact that their impromptu dragnet turned up a heavy-weapons smuggling operation meant to say that going out of policy for Sal was a good thing? Not sure how I feel about him. I LOVE his girlfriend's license plate ("SXYRPTR") though!

Better than last week, still not as good as Pilot.

I definitely agree about the "garbage calls." While I was so relieved to see Ben and Cooper, which is another issue in itself that shouldn't even exist, what I'm guessing was supposed to be a glimpse of a "day in the life" all too often in a job that has a real "hurry up and wait" rhythm that can be unpredictable, mundane, or change on a dime, came across more as random, choppy scenes. It was almost as if the writer was taunting the viewers by luring us in, then only providing a bare minimum before cutting short and moving on. There were opportunities for something more substantive, either with the specific calls with follow through, discussion between Ben and Cooper with the student/teacher roles involving more than one line, or something that would start as instruction and clarification for Ben and develop into something more insightful or personal. Not having any of that beyond the basic glimpse was both strange and disappointing. I also missed Chickie in the mix, since I was liking the dynamic developing between her and Ben.

As I already mentioned, I agree about Lydia. That was a delicate situation, to make an understatement. Again, while both scenes with Stanley were brief, both actors made them very memorable and a combination of unsettling, yet somehow also engaging and even oddly entertaining with the twist.

I'm not sure what to make of the male detectives, from the partners to Sal. I really can't seem develop the interest in any of them to follow their stories closely enough, or something in the writing interrupts the flow for me. Obviously, there were the themes of ethics, use and abuse of power, and crossing lines in a Machiavellian manner. I just didn't know what to make of the Sammy and Tammy show, and really didn't care. Anything related to Sal lacked any fresh aspect or compelling nature, either in terms of subject, characterization or execution in varying degrees. Sure, he ended it with drawing a line in one area of his life, but didn't seem to have any remorse for the lives he'd jeopardized or at least compromised and altered in the process. That's not what made me dislike or not have any attachment to his character, since there was nothing that had invested me already, but it certainly didn't help. If we're supposed to believe he's complex, fine, but I'm not at all intrigued to learn any more about him.

No doubt what the "A" plot was, but it was the "B" plot, with the diversionary "garbage calls" that saved the day for me. Had the writers built more on that with some balance, I would have found Two Gangs much more engaging. The ingredients of following the patrol officers, including the city as a character, having moral choices and dilemmas were there, but some crucial continuity, character development and personal interaction was missing. The detective-heavy episodes just don't have the impact of the ones focusing more on the patrol officers. Not only are we still getting to know them, but they're still getting to know each other- and one is experiencing everything anew. That's what made the pilot resonate.

Does anyone else notice the distinct yet very similar writing style of upandover, Psyon' and sassypoet? Not to mention the same need to defend and champion the characters of John and Ben (or perhaps the two actors that play them) and belittle or begrudge the detectives? A family member perhaps? A spouse? makes you wanna go hmmmmmmm. BTY, with as much time that is invested into this site, she or he could use the time more wisely and put those sharp wits to use and write a novel that we could all comment on.

Hey outlaw2, maybe we're all one person with multiple personality disorder sitting in an asylum? That work for you?

I suppose that my issue with most of the detectives is that their stories have been a little disjointed. The writers have opted to dive right into the middle of these characters and we're only just starting to develop context. Such is the case with Sammy and his wife. We know she's whacked out, but it's not quite clear why. Thus when we see their interaction I at least wonder what the deal is. It's scary to think she was like that when he married her. But then, if he was a big pothead once he might have married her while he himself was stoned.

Lydia is really the solid detective in the story. She seems more sensible than the guys. But I notice that she also seems to somehow be outside the circle of the male detectives except for Russell. For example, she was preoccupied with can't-keep-his-pants-on rather than being involved in the dragnet to find Sal's gun. Russell appeared to be on his day off since his main scenes were with his wife. A novelty given that we've seen more of him with writer lady than with her. Sal's influence might be starting to affect him.

Cooper's reaction to bear guy's homophobic remark was great. Unfortunately it was another "teaser" scene that could have led to some development but didn't. He and Ben didn't manage to achieve much depth to their interaction this time around. In particular there was no follow-up to their final scenes two weeks ago.

I think that they've been playing with not only the episode order, but also doing a fair amount of cut/paste with particular scenes, which is why it may feel somewhat disjointed. I'm always wondering if certain ambiguities are deliberate or the result of something being moved from it's original scripted place. Overall it was pretty decent.

If I get kicked off for writing this, then I do.

I often agree with the aforementioned "novelists"; not because I have any relation to Cudlitz or McKenzie (would that I did) nor because I know personally anyone on this site. I do know I enjoy the views expressed by these particular members because they make salient and insightful points and they make them displaying eloquence and restraint, a trait I greatly appreciate. They can argue their ideas anytime and I will gladly read whatever they write. I cannot understand how you can accuse someone of preferential treatment all while dismissing their detailed justifications for their positions as overly-verbose. If you have no patience to read other members' opinions, then don't. Scroll buttons rock. Although a bit of articulation and a lot of persuasion help, if you expect everyone on this forum to agree with you, you underestimate all of us.

I'm really liking this show so far. I agree that the writers have to go deeper into the pasts of the main cops i.e. Cooper and Ben so we could really care and feel for whats going on. Their were many amazing one liners in this episode. People have mentioned the "ufo" and "assault with a deadly animal" quotes, but i was surprised when one wasn't mentioned. After Cooper and Ben leave the house of the woman who dialed 911, Cooper says "We just got screwed", with Ben replying "What?", and then Cooper answering "Call 911, make a cop come". I'm pretty sure the other spelled version of that word is what he meant and that is hilarious. I guess people didnt catch it.

In the latest Southland's episode aired on 5-7-2009, two of the officers respond to a 911 hang up. A woman opens the door and the officers ask who called 911. The woman is evasive but it is revealed that she had thrown a cat at her "friend." She explains that she got mad at him after she caught him cheating on her and decided to throw a cat at him and led to the scratches on his face. Because she says she caught him cheating on him I assume they are or formerly where in a dating relationship. The man expains that she is moving out which makes them former cohabitants The officers leave without further actions because the man says he does not want to press charges. The FTO says, "It’s a misdemeanor not committed in our presents." I believe the FTO was referring to 836(a)(1) PC when he made the statement about the crime being a misdemeanor and therefore unable to take action. However, in California and most other states there is a mandatory arrest law for domestic violence The woman in this case committed domestic battery as defined in the California Penal Code 243(e)(1):
“When a battery is committed against a spouse, a person
with whom the defendant is cohabiting, a person who is the parent of
the defendant's child, former spouse, fiance, or fiancee, or a person
with whom the defendant currently has, or has previously had, a
dating or engagement relationship, the battery is punishable by a
fine not exceeding two thousand dollars ($2,000), or by imprisonment
in a county jail for a period of not more than one year, or by both
that fine and imprisonment.”

California Penal Code 836(d) contrasts the FTOs statement as defined below:
“… a current or former cohabitant a person with whom the suspect currently is
having or has previously had an engagement or dating relationship, a person with whom the suspect has parented a child, or is presumed to have parented, a child of the suspect, a child whose parentage by the suspect is the subject of an action under the Uniform Parentage Act, a child of a person in one of the above categories, any other person related to the suspect by consanguinity or affinity within the second degree, or
any person who is 65 years of age or older and who is related to the suspect by blood or legal guardianship, a peace officer may arrest the suspect without a warrant where both of the following circumstances apply:
(1) The peace officer has probable cause to believe that the
person to be arrested has committed the assault or battery, whether
or not it has in fact been committed.
(2) The peace officer makes the arrest as soon as probable cause
arises to believe that the person to be arrested has committed the
assault or battery, whether or not it has in fact been committed.

The reason I think that this is worth bringing up is that people who our misinformed about domestic violence may make misinformed choices as victims of domestic violence. I am worried about the person who saw that on TV and gets beaten 1 hour, or 1 day, or 1 year later and decides not to call the police because he or she saw on TV that the police can’t do anything for them. It does happen.

Thank you for your time
R.

Clearly another budding noveist. Why are you wasting your talents on this site? Have you noticed that millions have watched the show and yet there are but a small handful of people who are making comments on this site. Please, I beg you...grace us all with your witty remarks and salient insightful points and write "that novel" that although resides in all of us, shall elude the majority of us due to fear of failure, blah, blah, blah.

I'm not looking for anyone to agree with me. Having a Preference is to be human, to voice one's opinion is a right, and in my opinion the afformentioned novelist has been judging and critisizing without deeper thought and lack of patience to allow time for each characters "life story" to evolve. I'm certain Michaelangelo had several people mock him while he was mid-Pieta' shouting remarks regarding it's lack of elegance, beauty and profound insight. Only to be stifled when the master was finally finished with his creation. Get the point? Give the show and the story lines and characters time.

Come out, come out wherever you are....

Well outlaw2, the same really applies to you. You seem more interested in voicing opinions regarding the people posting to this board than you are with discussing the show itself. So if we're "novelists", then what does that make you? A book critic?

We're here to discuss the show, not ourselves or each other. Although considering your "contributions" it seems like we're not the only ones with too much time on our hands.

I was simply pointing out an observation and was then attacked.
Outlaw is moving on to another dusty city to rid the world of self importance. Good luck on your first novel. Come out, come out whoever you are.

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Outlaw2 apparently does not appreciate the open sharing of information and opinions that is the hallmark of the internet.

I apologize for not addressing this sooner, I've been away from my computer.

Everyone needs to remember that posters are allowed to have differing positions on the show, what aren't allowed are personal attacks on other posters for those views.

While I'm not going to remove those posts that have already been made, I am going to ask that you put them in the past and move on.

Should these personal attacks continue, those posts will be removed and the posters responsible will be warned that a suspension could result with repeated violations.

Thank you for your cooperation,
JD Forum Administrator

Ok, I think some of you are a little to into TV in the first place. Two Gangs was a great episode and it's nice to see some of the other Characters....this isn't Adam 12. I think Regina and Michael McGrady are great characters for the show. I think the writing is excellent and not your basic run of the mill Cop Show. Great Show!

What was that move that Ben Sherman pulled on that pissed off biker dude in the tattoo parlor?

I thought the best quote of the night was:
Cooper "We just got screwed"
Ben "What?"
Cooper "Call 911 and make a cop come"
Loved it!

That's an oldie but a goody it goes back to 1980. Glad someone commented on it.

I wasn't familiar with it, but loved the quote right away! 1980 huh? the beginning of 911 I assume!?

Question for: do you know what the pin is that Ben wears on his uniform? None of the other uniformed officers seem to be wearing one, but Ben has had his on since the beginning when he first appeared in the long sleeved uniform with the tie...just curious, thanks.

I was wondering that, too!

A half-Nelson with a vulcan death grip twist (camp specialty)?

I could not help but be reminded of that scene between Cary Elwes and the lovely Andre The Giant in The Princess Bride.

"I do not envy you the headache you will have when you wake. In the meantime, sleep well, and dream of large women [named Dennis]."

I found someone in the law enforcement answered your question here.(post #24)
http://forums.officer.com/showthread.php?t=118151

Pinelou, thanks so much for the info. I went to the site and got the answer to my question. There is lots of interesting info at that site, so thanks again. I really enjoy reading the police point of view on Southland! thanks again.

You're welcome, ILB. I'm glad I could help you. Some of them on the site are not always friendly to Southland, but having basic knowledge on the police enables us to enjoy the show much better.
You may already know TWOP, on the forum there, a retired(?) LAPD guy named "snowprince" is very kind and helpful to explain the back stories of some episodes and answer to the basic questions.
Enjoy it! (The first post by "snowprince" is around #96.)

http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/in...83532&st=90

Pinelou,
Thanks for the link to TWOP, I did know of the site, but jumped over to check out the stuff posted by "snowprince" - very interesting to read. I understand that some of what we see on Southland may not be totally accurate from a police point of view, but since it is a tv show, I think some creative embelishment is to be expected and I think that NBC, John Wells and Co. deserve alot of credit for going to such great lengths to make the show authentic. Looking forward to the finale, although I can't believe it's already over. Hoping NBC comes out with it's actual fall schedule on May 18 or 19, so we can at least have an idea of when Southland will start back up and what time slot it receives.

I cant wait for this to start up again, i really have faith that the storyline will develop into something far more complex and exciting then were even prepared for. Face it everyone, theres something to be said about having faith in a well loved creators work.

SOUTHLAND
TWO GANGS - VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED
08-28-2009 8:00PM

BEN REVEALS WHY HE CHOSE TO BE A COP; A FAMOUS ACTOR FINDS HIMSELF IN TROUBLE, AGAIN - Tom Sizemore and C. Thomas Howell Guest Star - When officer Ben Sherman (Ben McKenzie) reveals details of his past to the department therapist and his training officer, John Cooper (Michael Cudlitz), the motivation behind his decision to be a cop becomes clear. Elsewhere, Dewey (guest star C. Thomas Howell) becomes star struck by Timmy (guest star Tom Sizemore, "Saving Private Ryan") a famous, self obsessed actor. In true Dewey style, mischievous and star struck Dewey decides to party with Timmy, rather then book him. Trouble ensues when Dewey loses track of Timmy, and Chickie (Arija Bareikis) finds herself questioning her decision to take him on as her partner. Regina King, Tom Everett Scott, Shawn Hatosy, Kevin Alejandro and Michael McGrady also stars.

Show Cast: Michael Cudlitz, Regina King, Tom Everett Scott, Michael McGrady, Shawn Hatosy, Kevin Alejandro, Arija Bareikis, Ben McKenzie

Wrong Synopsis.

After last week's rerun of Sally with only detectives and no patrol officers, I knew the question was coming if Two Gangs was the same way. When I told my husband it was about the detectives, mostly Sal, and that Ben and Cooper had a couple of short scenes added in kind of as afterthoughts, he decided to watch football. I could see that coming! Watching Sal abuse his position and seeing the ranks go along with him was everything we didn't want to watch. Then there was the mistress. Nope.

We did watch the recording yesterday, but when he lost interest in the main plot, we just watched the garbage calls and the quirky Stanley scenes, which we liked. There were some good one liners, some laughs, and some good change of pace scenes, but it was too bad that they were so short and nothing was done with them. The garbage calls were all missed chances to go further with the characters, especially in the tatoo parlor. Did Ben notice anything about how Cooper was provoked? Did Cooper really think Ben learned that self-defense move at summer camp, or was he having some fun at his expense to avoid the issue? If Ben did learn it at camp, was it something he thought he might need to use in his own house against any attackers, not something he might fool around with playfully with friends?

What really stood out was that there was still nothing with Ben and his father from two weeks ago and that the garbage calls looked like they'd been edited in, but didn't really fit. They were too random.

You've summed up my take on this episode. Even if we had been interested in the characters of Sal and his private detectives force plus his mistress, the execution was kind of confusing and definitely just dull and tedious. The garbage calls were the only relief from that drudgery. At least we knew what was coming this time so we could change the channel. But the garbage calls were totally random, and even the ones that were just entertaining and kind of showed that Ben was learning something for the first time (and we were all getting garbage and drudgery in this episode in some ways!) were missed opportunities. Each one had an issue that could have been explored, even if briefly.

It could have been worse. It could have been just the crusading Sal Police and Detective Force. No!