You know if I compare all guys with little mustaches to Hitler it doesn't necessarily mean that my point is that all guys with little mustaches killed 6 million Jews. Apparently some folks are unable to separate various OTHER characteristics of Hitler with this one characteristic. Thats really not the fault of people who do GET IT. If someone can't distinguish between Annie and Hitler , thats really not my problem. I can see where they are the same AND I can see where they are different.

Did Annie have more class then Joan before or after the Blow job comment?

I think the problem is that some people apparently are confused about what charatceristics Annie and Hitler share and what characteristics they don't share. Annie lovers seem to be LUMPING ALL the characteristics of Hitler together in a kindof tunnel vision. I can see that Hitler was a liar and a manipulator and so is Annie. I can also see that Hitler killed 6 million Jews and Annie didn't. Its really not my problem if others don't GET IT.
It also seems that some do not understand that deception/lies can take different forms. It requires some more abstract thinking I guess. Thats not my problem either though.

Well I can only assume that the words that came out of Joan's mouth accurately reflected what she intended to say. She didn't add any qualifiers, there is nothing vague or obscure, she said “you’re a poker player . . a POKER player, you’re beyond white trash . . poker players are trash darling, trash”.

It's a simple statement of her opinion in her own words. She doesn't say "you are trash darling" she chose the plural "players", referring to them as a group. The statement is clear and unambiguous. The video on the show site will confirm the exact quote if there is any question of context or accuracy.

There is a clear difference between what she actually said and what she now wants us to believe she meant. Joan has made a lot of statements, all of them have been quite clearly stated, including this one.

A couple of days later, after Joan has had an opportunity to consider the wisdom of her words, she posted this on her twitter: “Poker players calm down! I was referring to one poker player as white trash, not all of them. So everybody in the poker world...CALM DOWN! 2:36 PM Apr 29th from web”

I guess her defense is technically true. She did not call poker players "white trash", that portion of her statement referred only to Annie. She did however directly refer to poker players as "trash darling, trash".

Wouldn't it have been simpler and more "clean" to just apologize?

^^^Nah.
I'm still waiting for Annie to apologize for her bj comment. The accompanying visual of it made me want to heave....although watching her preparations for the turkey meatballs were already making me feel that way.

Everyone needs to read the article in Bluff Magazine about all the lame things Annie Duke does at the poker table. Daniel Negreanu wrote a whole list! They have been enemies for years. Natalie should have called him instead of Phil Helmuth!

It's actually not an article but a post on a forum - Bluff Magazine Forum

It's the 2nd post down. Just a note that this post is dated May 2005.

BeckiDanz, please provide links to things that you report here or it will be considered unsubstantiated accusations and removed.

Joan doesn't have to apologize for telling the truth. Annie IS a Poker Player and since Annie Plays the game AWAY from the poker table as we have seen here, that also makes her a manipulator and a liar AWAY from the poker table as well. If Annie stuck to playing POKER at Poker games I doubt the comment would have been made. If Joan is aware of some white trash that also lies and manipulates , and it certainly wouldn't be a stretch to think there are some out there, then it looks like Joan is again callin it like she sees it. Why should she apologize because some people are unable to think in abstracts? Not Joans problem and not mine either.

I agree its GREAT advice to assume the words which come out of Joans mouth accurately reflect what she means to say. That also means that when Joan comes back later and CLARIFIES the meaning of what she said on the show, so that all the concrete thinkers can UNDERSTAND, we can again assume that she, better then anyone, knows what she meant by her comments. Language is not always concrete or literal . If it were we would not have all had to suffer through so many Englishes classes in HS and college learning about metaphor, irony, analogies, sarcasm ect......

I am no "Annie Lover" (I hope that Clint or Jesse wins), but I DO "get it", and applying your logic makes Joan's comments even worse. It is your view (and that of other Joan supporters) that Annie and Hitler have some things in common (e.g., both are liars and manipulators) and are different in some ways (e.g., "Hitler killed six million Jews" and Annie didn't), and Joan's comment referred only to the traits that they shared. But that is not what Joan said. Joan did not say "Annie is like Hitler in some ways - she is a liar and a manipulator", although I concede that her initial remarks could possibly have been interpreted in this context. Later, however, Joan clarified her remarks and made it clear that this was NOT what she meant. She concluded that Annie's actions were worse than Hitler's, and then apologized to Hitler. Using your logic, this could only mean that Joan believes that Annie's tactics in trying to win a silly game show for charity are worse than Hitler's slaughter of six million Jews. Moreover, when I think of Hitler, the first thing that comes to mind is not "liar" and "manipulator", it is "murderer" and "psychopath", and any comparisons with Hitler's actions should be interpreted in that context.

No matter how Joan's supporters try to "spin" her remarks and try to convince us that it was all just an attempt at humor, and that Joan did not mean literally what she said, even after she clarified the context of her remarks, her "worse than Hitler" comments are what they are, and I do not conside them to be "hilarious" as some posters maintain; they are hateful. Joan's apology should have been to Annie, not to Hitler.

Let's put things into perspective here. This is a television show for ratings. Let's not get caught up in the meaning of what "she said" and what "he said". This was meant towards one person for entertainment affect - this is not meant as an attack on all people. It is for entertainment and is meant to be kept light. It is enjoyable to debate different opinions regarding Joan, Annie, etc, but when it is becoming too deep with overtones of negative feelings with who was offended in the general public, it is way over the top. Let's keep it light folks!

have lost all respect for the two Rivers woman....Melissa proved herself to be a spoiled brat and High school must have been disasterous for her, since she has to refer to it so many times on CA and the Ellen show.

I understand Joan protecting her "baby" but to use that language is outrageous.

I thought Joan & Melissa went on the Ellen show to apologize for that immature display but no, they just added to it.

Nice to know that one can attack someone else on TV under the guise of entertainment
I dont think Annie ,Brande or Clint were er laughing when they were attacked by The Mummy
Yep NBC obviously is showing us the choiciest parts for ratings but i dont believe that any of the attacks by Joan are scripted attempts at macabre humor

Oh, yes, let's not demean the noble professions of gambling, especially the "classy" lying and conniving poker involves.

It's not just about winning it's also about fairness, decency and intregrity. One doesn't have to be scum to be a winner!

Amen! Annie would do well to learn that.

Perhaps the Annie haters here could give a specific example of how she has manipulated ,scum ,been a bully
Any specific thing she said ,any episodes ? ,how exactly did she manipulate Brande --by talking and laughing with her??
Where as what the Rivers children have done has been clearly seen and documented
dont know if anyone here has even seen Survivor --sometimes u gotta play smart to win the game ,its really different from being a scumbag and most of these people probably are far different in real life
But the way that The Mummy has attacked people is just shameful ,shes not even in my opinion trying to win the game or anything ,for some reason she just goes crazy and out comes total fouthmouthed garbage
Kinda like the zombie in the movie The Mummy --u can dress it up with flesh and skin /plastic surgery ,what remains underneath is still pure trash and evil

Annie lovers keep saying what you just said over and over, then they are given specific examples, ignore it, and continue to ask this same question over and over.

I agree, I don't think Joan is necessarily trying to win at the end.

Joan is, however, very much on her game and is as hilarious as ever. She is the only thing that makes the show worth watching. Joan is a winner where it counts -- pleasing her fans!

We keep asking because nobody has provided an answer. Each time the question is asked there is a response that contains nothing but circular reasoning, diversion and obfuscation. That's usually followed by name calling and an attempt at distraction from the original question.

For example: Provide an example of Annie lying. Response: well there isn't any on the show but it probably happened off camera (or was edited out); or of course she's lying, poker players lie for a living; or read this blog, person X says she's a total beeotch at the poker table.

Another: Joan called poker players trash. Response: she didn't mean all poker players, just Annie.

Another: Joan called Annie Hitler and a Nazi. Response: well she didn't mean the bad Hitler, you know, the one who killed 6 million jews - she meant the one who had a sense of humor at Buchenwald.

Or, Annie lied about telling Joan and Melissa about getting Brande fired while they were at dinner. Response: well, nobody was there besides Annie, Joan and Melissa and Joan and Melissa would never lie, so Annie is lying - besides, she's a trashy poker player and they always lie.

Repeating something over and over doesn't make it the truth. Providing a solid example, perhaps one that is shown on video or posted directly from the person referenced is factual and irrefutable. Demonizing someone based on unsubstantiated claims and hyperbole is wrong.

I have no problem with someone liking or disliking any player in this game. Your opinion is as important as mine, but let's not attempt to state opinion as fact.

For those who don't know...

ob⋅fus⋅cate
   /ˈɒbfəˌskeɪt, ɒbˈfʌskeɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ob-fuh-skeyt, ob-fuhs-keyt] Show IPA
–verb (used with object), -cat⋅ed, -cat⋅ing.
1. to confuse, bewilder, or stupefy.
2. to make obscure or unclear: to obfuscate a problem with extraneous information.
3. to darken.

Origin:
1525–35; < LL obfuscātus (ptp. of obfuscāre to darken), equiv. to L ob- ob- + fusc(us) dark + -ātus -ate 1

Related forms:
ob⋅fus⋅ca⋅tion, noun
ob⋅fus⋅ca⋅to⋅ry  /ɒbˈfʌskəˌtɔri, -ˌtoʊri/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ob-fuhs-kuh-tawr-ee, -tohr-ee] Show IPA , adjective

Synonyms:
1. muddle, perplex. 2. cloud.

Great post! I completely agree. Joan's fans (and there apparently aren't as many of these as one would think, since the same few ardent supporters keep posting over and over again; less than 12% of the viewers that responded to this Board's poll [as of today] actually want Joan to win, and several posts have indicated that they were Joan admirers before The Apprentice, but have since changed their minds because of her outrageous behavior) are just mad because Annie has completely outplayed the Rivers in this game, and Annie takes the myriad of profane insults hurled her way by the Rivers with a smile and not responding in kind. That infuriates the Rivers even more, who react by ranting and raving even louder, looking even sillier. I do concede that Annie also has a huge ego, and I cannot defend certain things that she has done (and I actually would like Jessie or Clint to win), but Annie is a master game player, who knows what buttons to push to allow the Rivers to self-destruct.

With regards to lying, I can give a concrete example as it relates to Joan: Joan (twice) that she would leave the show and not return if Melissa were fired unjustly. So surely, even the most ardent Joan supporter would concede that if she returns to the show next week (as she almost certainly will because of her huge ego), then she was lying, correct? If she comes back, then clearly either she was lying or she has reconsidered and now regards Melissa's firing as justified after all, right?

Joan has plenty of fans and there are more posts for her doing well on the show than not. They know that Joan is a professional. She's been in show business for 40 years. Annie is well known in the World Poker circles but not much beyond. Joan has created the energy this show needs even though she is in her 70's. She won't get pushed around or manipulated and she won't do that to any of the other celebs either. She will tell you want she thinks and she has integrity. Joan will be back and it will be good entertainment for sure!

I have not posted before and I only recently took the time to actually watch almost all the eposides.
Now that I am caught up, I did want to respond to a couple things that have been said.
Annie very clearly in the most recent eposide - about 45 minutes into - talks about her strategy and how she felt like she played her opponents against each other. She is playing "Survivor" in the middle of Celebrity Apprentice. By the way - there is nothing wrong with that - but lets call it like it is. She works behind your back - which is one way to play the game.

Joan on the other hand - is playing Celebrity Apprentice with no alternative strategy. She is out to win but .. she is out to win by being the best player at each challange. No side strategy about knocking somebody off. You know up front what you get - there is nothing wrong with that - but lets call it like it is. She tells you to your face - which is another way to play the game.
I think its interesting how so many people accuse Joan of being personal and then in their attacks they get so incredibly mean. In almost all of Joan Rivers humor, she cuts on herself for about the first 10 jokes and only then does she crack a joke about other people. This can be seen ( since people are looking for proof) in 2 of the extra video posts that are provided on this website. She always puts herself down first... always.

I also think it is very interesting that if you look at past videos, including the 3 most recent eposides, you will find that other contentants have nice stuff to say about Joan. Jessie was extremely in this last show and said the " he knew they would be friends." In the Hershel exit interview ( I believe eposide 8), he says that he enjoyed working with Mrs. Rivers. If you go and look on Natalie's blog - you will find that she says Joan Rivers treated her nicely and the had a motherly quality. She mentions that Joan took her on a tour of the World Trade Centers sight because Natalie had never been there before. You also will find in the early episodes that Dennis Rodman pays her a compliment and even the Dice man mentions that when he was a nobody - Joan invited him back stage and gave him passes. Finally, even Clint has paid her compliments. I think once she is on a team.. she gets the job done.

Joan never said she was not coming back in this last eposide... she said " I wont be in tomorrow."

Finally - there seems to be some confusion on these message boards that she is some washed up comic. I find her funny ( especially when she saved Clints butt on the jewelery challange. Those jokes with the models were so funny) - but I can understand if people dont enjoy her sense of humor. However, I did want to be sure that people are aware that this woman has lasted for 40 years in show business... and has sold over $500,000,000 worth of jewelery from her business. That is not a type by the way. You can google Joan Rivers Worldwide and find current numbers. She is a business person. To think that a tiny 75 year old woman, could compete with all these younger adults, and be so sharp under all this pressure. I think its amazing.

Annie is a good competitor but in a very different way. With Melissa gone - Momma is free to show the group just how good a business woman she is. You don't have to like her humor to appreciate the fact that this is one hell of a business woman.

Excellent post! Your analysis is the best I've read on this site thus far. Probably because you just recently watched all of the episodes and they are fresh in your mind. I agree with you, Annie is trying to win with her style and Joan is trying to win with her style. It will be interesting...

I do agree Arkansas Fan that is a good insightful post

I think most people who are supporting Joan have watched her before this show in some capacity and admire her and basically will stick with her no matter what she says or does
She has though lost a lot of fans because of her behaviour on this show
Now for me ive just caught glimpses of her on E network doing some red carpet shows during oscars and all the contestants started on an even playing field ,I was even rooting for Joan early on
But she has behaved just awfully to some people without really any justfication and its not only to Annie
Yes shes made up with Clint now but that was after she said she attacked him
I Saw her interview on the Ellen Degeneres show and she comes across as even more awful than she does on the show

Being rich ,old and "succesful" shoudnt give you a free pass to indulge in the worse personal attacks against people just playing a game ,O.J. Simpson was also famous,liked and succesful(though of course the two situations are not even close) ,but the point is anyone can do or say whatever they want??

Like i said you cover Trash all you want with education ,money,fame --Trash remains Classless Trash and Joan and Melissa are unfortunately just that

Even if someone who i really liked before the show behaved liked that i would still say the same thing ,what ive seen from her on the show is beyond disgusting and its to peoples credit that they havent just packed and left the show after being insulted like this

I think it would become Joan and Melissa to apologise for some of the vile nonsense they have spewed and maybe then they would show some class at last

Just cant say I see it that way after watching all the recent shows / exit interviews. Also I am only writing about Joan - just because she took up for her daughter, I do not think that makes them the same. They are not on the same level when it comes to business skills / or quick humor.

Out of a room of 12, if 8 of your former co workers say nice things about you, then I dont think you come across as trash.

Lets flip the table - how many contestants have said something nice about Annie in the interview room or on one of the video clips? Or in an exit interview? I couldnt find any.

Finally, I also thought of one other scene that I think offers some insight into a person. After the double firing (when the Kardashian girl got fired) - on the next show, the Donald asked does anybody have a question about last nights results....... and the only person that spoke up - to the big boss - was Joan. She said something like, " you know Donald, we shouldnt fire people for their past mistakes. She is trying to do the right thing now." The only one that had the guts to say anything.

Once again, I am sorry, but I just dont see that as trash. Call it an overprotective momma, call it someone who is way to competitive... maybe, but not trash.

I can understand Joan's "put down" style of humor, which has apparently served her well over the years in the entertainment business. However, in her comedy routines, she is always smiling, or at least dead panning, so you know that she isn't really serious in her criticisms. However, she was not smiling or dead panning when ranting and raving at "Hitler Annie". She obviously meant every word she said, and was so angry that I thought she was going to have a stroke. There is a big difference between putting people down as part of a comedy routine and ranting and raving hateful remarks in the Board Room and then leaving the show in a huff.

You mentioned Clint as "complimenting" Joan, but he has said in the Houston Chronicle that he would never again do a reality show because some contestants showed "intensive unkindness" to him and to other contestants and thus were "hard to be around." In my opinion, he was obviously referring primarily to the Rivers, although he can clarify this himself once the show is over.

Joan's remarks about leaving the show for good if Melissa were unjustly fired were made in a previous episode and essentially confirmed last week. We will see if she comes back "tomorrow" when the other contestants meet with Donald Trump. I suspect that she will not be there initially, but make a grand entrance later that day or the following day amid great fanfare.

Finally for someone who has been so successful both as a businesswoman and a celebrity, it is a little strange that she was unable to get much financial support for her charity. Does anyone know why? It is not because she did not try; it was because her "friends" said No.

You said you agree with Arkansas Fan, then whet on to post nothing that agreed with Arkansas Fan.

I seriously doubt Joan has lost even one fan because of anything she has done on CE.

Joan is being good ol' Joan and her fans love her for it.

I do expect there might be a fake anecdotal comment on these boards that says someone was a Joan fan until they saw her on CE.

I would guess he is referring to Jesse, who by far had the biggest conflict with Clint. Jesse refused to help Clint in the task when Clint was PM and Jesse went down a laundry list of insults to Clint's face emphasizing how "dumb" and "stupid" Clint was over and over.

It's even nicer to know one can by a lying, backstabbing, vile conniver under the guise of "it's for charity."

ArkansasFan:- Thanks for posting so coherently and eloquently my feelings on this topic! Great posts!

Arkansas had a good post because he expressed his thoughts well

Easy to keep saying someone(im presuming Annie) is a lying --any references to when she lied?
Backstabbing --who did she backstab ? now she may go against brande in the next episode but as far as the current episode she hasnt yet

Anyone can say that Joan is a big fat backstabbing unknown dude --but shes not is she

Some specific inferences would help

Annie said to Joan's face she did not try to get Melissa fired when earlier in the show to the camera she said she wants Melisa fired and in the board room Annie indeed told Donald Melissa should be fired.

In an earlier episode Annie had told Melissa and Joan she wanted Brande off and thought Brande deserved to go, then coddled Brande in the board room.

Annie has been a bully since episode one.

Others have made more in depth responses with more specific things to what Annie has done and said. I don't understand why the question is still being asked.

Great post Arkansas fan!

Again, well said and very thoughtful. Joan did get many accolades from her co-workers which is the highest compliment she could receive (even better than the not so deep Trump).

I am surprised by your assertion that there are “fake anecdotal comments” on the Boards saying that their respect for Joan Rivers has gone down because of her antics and profanity laden tirades on CE. You referred to a possible single example of such fake posting, but a ten minute search of the Boards revealed the following examples:

Tfortuna (4-19): I have seen Joan Rivers numerous times on various shows. I will never again see her in the same light. She is forever tainted.

Justbn (4-20): OMG! My opinions of Rivers & Brat for forever changed.... Ugh!

Tweety215 (4-24): I have lost all respect for Joan Rivers. I use to watch her stand-up and buy her jewlery. No more. I have lost all respect for Joan and think she should be fired. Melissa too.

Apprenticewatcheer (4-26): I have lost a lot of respect for Joan when she says she is going to quit if anyone upsets Melissa! Very bad!

Rockmusicianfan (4-26): My wife loved Joan and Melissa until this show, now she can't stand either.

I do not believe that these postings reflect a conspiracy to lie about their feelings. I would add my name to this list because I had some respect for Joan Rivers before CE, but no more. There are probably many other posts that fall into this same category. There are literally dozens or perhaps even hundreds of posts that are critical of Joan’s antics on CE, but make no mention of how they viewed her before CE. I also did not do a complete search of the Boards to find the above examples.

It would interesting if you could site a single post that has the opposite view, i.e., someone who had negative opinions of Joan before her appearance on CE but now believe that she is wonderful.

I like Joan. Yes she can be annoying but that is part of her. Both her and Melissa are smart get things done people. Annie on the other hand is a poker player, sorry in my world that's not a big thing. By nature she is a back stabber and lie to your face type person. These type people are not worth my time. Don't even want to talk about Brande what the heck has she ever done.

Brande is a stupid idiot for not seeing she got played by Annie. Not counting the fact that she hasn't an original thought in her head. And what was up with the note passing and then the whispering between DT and that loser J. Cramer? He was all on Brande's case until that point, then magically inspired by DT's note and whispered comments, he goes after Melissa. And, I thought they were playing a game, however now I learn it's strictly a fund raiser. How boring. And if that was the case, Melissa Rivers didn't have 1/10th the fundraising power of the other 'D' list celebs.

Annie Duke is not 'all that' here in Las Vegas. She's just a typical sleazy gambling poker player who spends more time on Twitter and casinos then with her 4 kids. Let's call it what it is, Annie. Everything out of her mouth is BS - it has to be - that's her professional. Playing with people's heads with her words and actions. So what's her claim to fame? Winning one tournament over 4 years ago and teaching Ben Affleck and Matt Damon how to play 'hold 'em'? Get serious. She's just another scummy loser from Las Vegas who doesn't impress most of us Las Vegans. She's been riding the coattails of her infamous poker playing brother for years. She's an embarrassment to all of us here in Las Vegas. TPT as we commonly call those in her category!

Not so nice annie?? Puhleeze, it's her job to lie, cheat, fake, cajole, manifest, create facades, etc..and for as well as she does it, I'm surprised she hasn't won the WTP every year. Oh, I know why, because she can only pull that bs on women like Brande. I can't even bear to watch tonite, my dvr will just have to do it for me. I'm sure I'll watch it, I can only hope that Joan Rivers carries her head up high and carries on to right the wrong. Melissa should NEVER have been fired last week. You know it and I know it. I, for one, am sick of Annie Duke, sick of Trump's combover and sick of Clint Black and his stodgy, 'it's my way or the highway' attitudes. Go for the gusto, Clint, take off that hat and show us what you have...or have not!

TPT? HMmmm....
Toilet paper tootsie?
Trailer pullin' trickster?
HMmmmm...I'm not a very good guesser
Oh wait...Total Poker Trash...Could that be it??

Nope - someday you'll get it though. Good effort!

Totally agree!

Lets see. Hmmmm. Did you happen to catch the episode were she freaked out on a contributor that gave them money because they wanted more then one freaking cupcake. She should have been fired then and any company owner in there right mind would have on the spot.

All this annie v. melissa/joan is making me sick. One thing I do know is that you can NEVER take the gambler out of a person. I can tell you that little Miss Annie Duke is 'not all that special' here in L.V. And I can also tell you that her being on CA hasn't helped her one bit! Since most of the field are men, you can expect that their reactions so far have been over the top laughter since she's making such a joke of herself. Believe me, she DOES NOT act that way around her peers. And they ARE her peers. I know she'd like to be one someday, but that's not going to happen. LV is very unforgiving and I've been following her tweets and she IS STILL talking trash as of this morning. That is so petty, and as 'the boys' have said, typical women's bs. And don't think for a minute that DT will be hanging out with any of these people when the show is over. Like Trump hung out with Dennis Rodman - there's a laugh! There - I think I'm done. I was po'd after last Sunday, got over it, and now I don't even wish to see her ugly face. A friend sent me a hideous shot of Annie - so I put it on my facebook under The 5 people I'd like to punch in the face! (I was a little bit annoyed last Sunday night!)

We'll see if it was a 'humbling' experience for Annie, or if she continues to run her mouth about the incident throughout the whole show. Who wants to guess Annie will be running tonite's show too?

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Really? Did you actually go through this thread and make a count? I did, and found that there were more posters who were critical of Joan’s antics than there were those that supported her behavior.

Positive Joan Commenters (37): brm42, kile23. arkansasfan, buymeshoes, gottcha, lynn88, khensley, suesue1, Lil_endian, Fancy_New_Beca, Joan_Rocks, babylele, MadamElvis44, Marcalla_12, CoffeeCake512, babrownie, Kakalala, Jodh, Lnzplaying, Carolin2000US, deegee2451, Sina, aubrey333, NickyP, JenniferSMith, MindBenderFL, lost4code, JBRoxer, hamptonfarmeer, Lap21, SassyShortie, tlbs, antpopcorn, moanbo, julie905, kedzards, tatertwo

Negative Joan Commenters (54): vikitaru, joellen37, ever1sacritic_1, tubajoe, dallascash, pabear45, bettdee, pibacher, mbs12345, justbn, richd67, moonchildiva, phoebepuar, downpuppy, onclewillie, rockmusicfan, misscynthia, carmela8877, huttyin, silvercube, JWMdo, amym5, tweety215, Mia+Devlin, Funkdubious, I_Hate_TV, MOEV, Pope_Jimmy, JessicaJuliette, Riversplasher, bmac979, Tazmat, Armywife04, ibmjas, Veger1, Chaticathi, JCAt74, MR_AEC67, Toprank, tkhoyt, Flaz, Cronos12, greenthumb76, Julia071200, Whol, ApprenticeIsMyNF, Lalaliere, Texan1111, Wenbenus, Desia, VaguelyAmused, bluesinew, Canucklehead09, Cabana

Equivocal Joan Commenters, that is, thosse who mentioned her in a neutral way or had both positive and negative things to say (20): coldpepsi, pjomoe, majacloud57, gghrpierre, Katarmy, apprenticewatcher, frangyomory, Anne_V, cathio50, humpa, NickyP, Lilyjuslan, mb14220, MakeSomeNoise, PrincessSlammy147. Sprint15, Wiser625, dingodoodles, Mrandmrsgrund, Steve505

I concede that some of Joan’s supporters are more prolific, making the same points over and over again in multiple posts, so it is possible that the actual number of positive and negative posts may be similar. I also concede that arguments could be made that certain of the “equivocal” commenters could be placed in either the positive or negative group. However, this would not alter significantly the overall conclusion that in terms of the actual number of people on this thread who have expressed a clear opinion of Joan’s behavior, the negative commenters appear to outnumber the positive commenters.

That BS you say Annie is pulling she seems to be pulling it on Trump as well. Annie should have been fired last week or Brande. But certainly NOT Melissa. I am hoping that Brande is using Annie and with Annie PM this week - I am hoping Jesse's team wins - would love to see Annie fired - and Brande stay.

Hey Ivel
How 'bout...
Talkin platitude turkey?
Tacky pickin' teeth?
Travelin' pushy tramp?
Two-timin' polygamous tart?

whew...I'm running out of antonyms!!
But my vocabulary is improving...don't you think?

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sharnina/moderator

You, tubajoe, and those posts you mentioned may very well have known who Joan was before CE and maybe didn't think one way or the other of her or even thought she was OK, but I question whether those posters you referred to were really ever Joan River's fans.

I question that, because Joan is doing on CE what she did when she filled in for Johnny Carson, when she had her own shows, when she did her stand up when she wrote her books and when she critiqued the red carpet. Joan's personality has not changed at all -- thank god.

However, if you or anyone else wants to say you were a Joan fan or thought highly of her until y'all saw her on CE, you are entitled to your opinion and have every right to state it.