He was pulling the trigger long before he shot directly at HRG. He was shooting to scare, not kill.
If Peter had done what you suggested, Jeremy would have known long before making the decision to actually kill. Which means he'd have been pushed over the edge.
Full Version: Jeremy
I don't think Jeremy meant to pull the trigger, it looked more to me as a startled reflex seeing Peter just appear there. He seemed as shocked as Peter was the gun had gone off.
I was specifically talking about once HRG had begun to climb the stairs, after the initial warning shots.
But I suppose it's possible that Jeremy could have attempted another warning shot (instead of going for the kill), even with HRG at such a close distance. In that case, you are completely right. Jeremy would have been disgruntled beyond belief, detrimentally aggravating his ability. What I was trying to say was, If Jeremy had aimed to kill, he would have been bothered by the lack of ammo, but if the ammo had not been taken by Peter, HRG would have been dead anyway. The "warning shot" clause does make the most sense.
I concede defeat.
But I suppose it's possible that Jeremy could have attempted another warning shot (instead of going for the kill), even with HRG at such a close distance. In that case, you are completely right. Jeremy would have been disgruntled beyond belief, detrimentally aggravating his ability. What I was trying to say was, If Jeremy had aimed to kill, he would have been bothered by the lack of ammo, but if the ammo had not been taken by Peter, HRG would have been dead anyway. The "warning shot" clause does make the most sense.
I concede defeat.
He was pulling the trigger when Peter jumped in to save Noah.
He had been pulling the trigger frequently prior to that.
The surprise had nothing to do with the shot. It had everything to do with Peter showing up.
Peter's surprise had nothing to do with the gun going off. It had everything to do with him stopping time. (Rewatch the scene. He was surprised before he realized the stop had happened too late.)
He had been pulling the trigger frequently prior to that.
The surprise had nothing to do with the shot. It had everything to do with Peter showing up.
Peter's surprise had nothing to do with the gun going off. It had everything to do with him stopping time. (Rewatch the scene. He was surprised before he realized the stop had happened too late.)
And retrospectively looking at the situation, as described above, it would have made more sense to remove the shells. Jeremy had the shotgun pointed at HRG. If he had pulled the trigger, HRG would have been dead. You're right because we have to anticipate "warning" shots, which would not have harmed anyone but would have alarmed Jeremy that his shotgun had been tampered with (in the case I presented, where Peter freezes times and removes the shells).
On a side note, Peter should have stopped time and just taken Jeremy's ability like that.
On a side note, Peter should have stopped time and just taken Jeremy's ability like that.
QUOTE (DomesticatedPeach @ Oct 25 2009, 12:05 AM) 
I repeat: You have an unstable kid with the ability to kill you faster than anything you've ever seen, but he prefers using a weapon- to keep you at a distance.
You have a choice. You can let him keep his weapon, and try to gain control of the situation. Or you can remove his weapon, knowing he's going to find out, and risk tipping him over the edge.
For the record: The first choice is the only one of the two with anything resembling safety.
I repeat: You've repeated this.
For the record: I agree with what you've said above.
QUOTE
You have a choice. You can let him keep his weapon, and try to gain control of the situation. Or you can remove his weapon, knowing he might find out (with a warning shot), and risk tipping him over the edge.
For the record: I agree with what you've said above.
QUOTE (DomesticatedPeach @ Oct 25 2009, 12:05 AM)
And retrospectively looking at the situation, as described above, it would have made more sense to remove the shells.
QUOTE (DomesticatedPeach @ Oct 25 2009, 12:17 AM)
For the record: I agree with what you've said above.
Apparently I misunderstood your agreement as disagreement. Probably because you said something I clearly state as the worst possible decision was the one that made the most sense.
QUOTE (DomesticatedPeach @ Oct 25 2009, 12:05 AM)
On a side note, Peter should have stopped time and just taken Jeremy's ability like that.
In order to take Jeremy's ability, Peter would have to restart time. Whether willingly or not. (In order to even hold a new ability, he has to lose the first one.)
It's quite likely Peter can't even absorb another ability while actively using one like Time Stop.
And, again, it is quite clear from Peter's reaction that he can not actually control Time Stop. It was a reaction he had no control over.
QUOTE
In order to take Jeremy's ability, Peter would have to restart time. Whether willingly or not. (In order to even hold a new ability, he has to lose the first one.)
It's quite likely Peter can't even absorb another ability while actively using one like Time Stop.
It's quite likely Peter can't even absorb another ability while actively using one like Time Stop.
Ah, forgot about that. Forget the side note then.
You say Peter should not have emptied the shells (provided he has control of Time Stop). That's your worst possible decision, I hope. I'm saying that if Peter had emptied the shells and done nothing else , and Jeremy had not taken any additional warning shots (same as scene), the chance of HRG dying would have been lower.
Hmm....so you want Peter to do exactly what he was told not to do?
HRG told Peter to stay out of it.
The only time Peter could have, or "should" have, interfered is at the beginning. As already pointed out, that was a bad idea.
HRG told Peter to stay out of it.
The only time Peter could have, or "should" have, interfered is at the beginning. As already pointed out, that was a bad idea.
QUOTE
Hmm....so you want Peter to do exactly what he was told not to do?
HRG told Peter to stay out of it.
HRG told Peter to stay out of it.
We have to assume that HRG agreed with Peter's actions in my case. Forget about who said what. My point is, emptying the shells would have been safer because Jeremy would have had one less method if murder.
You're right. He wouldn't have had a long range weapon that takes time to kill. There wouldn't have been the possibility of a nonlethal attack.
He also wouldn't have been unstable and on the edge.
Instead, he would have had a weapon capable of killing immediately.
There would have been no chance of survival.
He would have been unstable and over the edge.
You have a choice: Take your chances with the gun, or kiss your life goodbye with a touch.
He also wouldn't have been unstable and on the edge.
Instead, he would have had a weapon capable of killing immediately.
There would have been no chance of survival.
He would have been unstable and over the edge.
You have a choice: Take your chances with the gun, or kiss your life goodbye with a touch.
QUOTE (synch @ Oct 24 2009, 11:37 PM)
He was pulling the trigger when Peter jumped in to save Noah.
He had been pulling the trigger frequently prior to that.
The surprise had nothing to do with the shot. It had everything to do with Peter showing up.
Peter's surprise had nothing to do with the gun going off. It had everything to do with him stopping time. (Rewatch the scene. He was surprised before he realized the stop had happened too late.)
He had been pulling the trigger frequently prior to that.
The surprise had nothing to do with the shot. It had everything to do with Peter showing up.
Peter's surprise had nothing to do with the gun going off. It had everything to do with him stopping time. (Rewatch the scene. He was surprised before he realized the stop had happened too late.)
Actually Synch, I rewatched the scene and Jeremy was not pulling the trigger when Peter showed up. He had just said, "One step closer and I'll shoot". Noah didn't take a step. Why would Jeremy have decided to shoot? Suddenly, Peter shows up out of nowhere and he shoots. Peter teleports there first, then stops time after a short delay. It was the surprise at seeing Peter that caused Jeremy to shoot, he wasn't already about to.
Tonight, we saw Noah and Tracy do everything in their power to help Jeremy. This was a great heroic act, but in the end; a cruel town won in the end. Jeremy passed away and now Tracy thinks she should join the carnival because Samuel managed to convince her that the world was a cruel one for her. The whole town was against Jeremy and it makes you wonder; why would people be like this? There was no reason at all for this.
I thought he would have survived the dragging by healing himself while getting dragged. Guess I thought wrong.
In keeping with the topic "Jeremy". I'm sure we all saw tonights show (10/26/09).
Considering the fact that it hasn't yet aired in all timezones, I think it's safe to say we didn't all see tonight's episode.
Please refrain from discussing it in General Discussion until tomorrow. That's why we created the Current Episode Discussion forum.
Considering the fact that it hasn't yet aired in all timezones, I think it's safe to say we didn't all see tonight's episode.
Please refrain from discussing it in General Discussion until tomorrow. That's why we created the Current Episode Discussion forum.
QUOTE (blamar2003 @ Oct 26 2009, 09:14 PM)
I thought he would have survived the dragging by healing himself while getting dragged. Guess I thought wrong.
Not sure his power works that way. I mean, Claire is a regenerator...Jesse was a healer. He healed/killed others. His power worked outward. Unless I missed something. Did they mention he could heal himself?
No. Looks to be, pretty much, the same power Linderman had. And you're right- it's directed outward, and he can't heal himself.
Unfortunately, this is exactly how I predicted people would react to the existence of SGs.
Unfortunately, this is exactly how I predicted people would react to the existence of SGs.
Without spoiling anything, he's my favorite teenager now on the show besides Zack from season 1.
I was very disturbed by the way they killed him....It was just so....Disturbing!
QUOTE (bwm27 @ Oct 26 2009, 08:13 PM)
The whole town was against Jeremy and it makes you wonder; why would people be like this? There was no reason at all for this.
It's the million dollar question.
Sadly, I think it was answered best by Carmine Falcone in Batman Begins. "You always fear what you don't understand."
Sadly, humanity has long shown it has 1 answer to things it fears. Destruction.
Well we know one thing people with the healing touch, Precognition, or super strength seem to get killed more often except for Mohinder.
Linderman
Ishi Nakamura
Jeremy
Niki
Knox
Scott
GN
Michael Fitzgerald
Precognition
Isaac Mendez
Usutu
Linderman
Ishi Nakamura
Jeremy
Niki
Knox
Scott
GN
Michael Fitzgerald
Precognition
Isaac Mendez
Usutu
QUOTE (bwm27 @ Oct 26 2009, 08:13 PM)
Tonight, we saw Noah and Tracy do everything in their power to help Jeremy. This was a great heroic act, but in the end; a cruel town won in the end. Jeremy passed away and now Tracy thinks she should join the carnival because Samuel managed to convince her that the world was a cruel one for her. The whole town was against Jeremy and it makes you wonder; why would people be like this? There was no reason at all for this.
Good question, why would people act that way and so quickly----I thought it was stupid.
I mean, I thought Heroes suddenly became a movie on Life Time about the 50's and Jeremy was all of a sudden an innocent black boy arrested in a backwater southern town? Really----a linchmob? Then having him dragged out behind a truck; don't get me wrong, he was great in the scene, but it just didn't fit. Although...this was a country town, so that makes perfect sense. Come on!
Am I the only one who thinks this was stupid---not the outcome, but the process?
It was just so stupid; if they wanted to get rid of him, kill him even---why not include the Government, ya know; the people who wouldn't just forget about everything that happened last season. Or maybe Sam would use one of hisown to kill Jeremy and do it so Ice Girl would think that there was no place for their kind. No. Instead we got a flashback to Alabama.
I thought the actor was great, to bad they killed another good character before we really got to see him shine.
QUOTE (synch @ Oct 26 2009, 09:32 PM)
It's the million dollar question.
Sadly, I think it was answered best by Carmine Falcone in Batman Begins. "You always fear what you don't understand."
Sadly, humanity has long shown it has 1 answer to things it fears. Destruction.
Sadly, I think it was answered best by Carmine Falcone in Batman Begins. "You always fear what you don't understand."
Sadly, humanity has long shown it has 1 answer to things it fears. Destruction.
Wow...
Man, your thoughts must run deep.
This is where the writers come up with a really dramatic way to kill the character, but neglect to put as much thought into how they're going to reach that conclusion. Not exactly untypical of Heroes, but oh well...at least it was original and effective.
Ok, so I thought this whole thing was wrong, out of place and totally bad.
The "Linchmob" just add water---the non-freaked out cops (the few who would've seen what really happened to the guy in the random killer crowd)---then his death: gruesome and cold---but with no power cause it seemed to come from left field like everything else leading up to it.
You know why I think Jeremy's death felt like it came from left field, because to make the case that the way he died fit into place, I should've been watching a two hour movie, one where I would've gotten to know just how much the towns folk didn't like him, never liked him, how he was always a strange kid, how the cop who killed him was always a loose cannon, evil himself, perhaps related to him---things not built strongly enough by one letter and the hearsay of schoolmates (who we didn't see, but were mentioned) something that took two seconds.
I'm sorry, but does anyone else feel that what happened here was just a crazy and loud way to say what was really the little point gained by the end of the show: Tracy no longer trusts people, and will end up among herown kind?
Maybe I'm wrong, you tell me.
The "Linchmob" just add water---the non-freaked out cops (the few who would've seen what really happened to the guy in the random killer crowd)---then his death: gruesome and cold---but with no power cause it seemed to come from left field like everything else leading up to it.
You know why I think Jeremy's death felt like it came from left field, because to make the case that the way he died fit into place, I should've been watching a two hour movie, one where I would've gotten to know just how much the towns folk didn't like him, never liked him, how he was always a strange kid, how the cop who killed him was always a loose cannon, evil himself, perhaps related to him---things not built strongly enough by one letter and the hearsay of schoolmates (who we didn't see, but were mentioned) something that took two seconds.
I'm sorry, but does anyone else feel that what happened here was just a crazy and loud way to say what was really the little point gained by the end of the show: Tracy no longer trusts people, and will end up among herown kind?
Maybe I'm wrong, you tell me.
QUOTE (Vagrant @ Oct 27 2009, 12:48 AM)
This is where the writers come up with a really dramatic way to kill the character, but neglect to put as much thought into how they're going to reach that conclusion. Not exactly untypical of Heroes, but oh well...at least it was original and effective.
I agree: original for this show, and effective if its only purpose was to make people go, "Holly crap, are they really going to..."
QUOTE (Wadegarret @ Oct 26 2009, 10:35 PM)
Or maybe Sam would use one of hisown to kill Jeremy and do it so Ice Girl would think that there was no place for their kind.
If you think that was even remotely possible, you have not been paying attention. Samuel is not about to kill one of his own kind. He was actively trying to get Tracy to bring Jeremy to the carnival. He has not hinted even in the least bit that he would be willing to sacrifice one of his own kind for his own agenda.
And Ice Girl?
QUOTE (MaySone @ Oct 27 2009, 01:22 AM)
If you think that was even remotely possible, you have not been paying attention. Samuel is not about to kill one of his own kind. He was actively trying to get Tracy to bring Jeremy to the carnival. He has not hinted even in the least bit that he would be willing to sacrifice one of his own kind for his own agenda.
And Ice Girl?
And Ice Girl?
Maybe you haven't been paying attention: Sam seems like he would do whatever he needs to get the job done and no, that doesn't mean he would kill, but if he had too...and maybe telling Tracy to show Jermey to come to the Carnival was only to get her; if Jeremey came it would be a bonus, but not needed.
Yes, Tracy is Ice Girl when all I can remember is Nikki.
Yeah, he is actually a more sympathetic person and actually was likable. Unfortunately, that usually ends up in him not getting the respect from the writers, while the more annoying teenagers like West and the microwave kid were immediately very unlikeable when you first lay eyes on them period and yet the writers were trying to find ways to write more and more stuff about them as possible but ran outta time.
It didn't make much sense to me why the crowd assumed he killed his parents. If they had done a couple of short scenes to flesh it out I would have been a lot more satisfied with the decision. Showing the cops in a diner with some of the townsfolk talking about how guilty they think Jeremy is and then showing the one cop who helped drag him to his death was the one who organized the mob in the first place would have made that scene make sense.
I really liked Jeremy but they always kill the best characters. His brutal death accomplished two things. First, Tracy realized that she'd made a mistake in not going to the Carnival, so at the end that's exactly where she's headed. Second, they can't bring anyone back from the dead now. However, maybe Claire could have saved Jeremy? It is ridiculous that the deputy could think he wouldn't be held responsible for murder though.
QUOTE (Wadegarret @ Oct 26 2009, 11:49 PM)
Exactly, I mentioned that too.
I really liked the Jeremy scene, Jeremy's whole story actually. It's very rare that we see the general population react to an SG out in the open, and this supports Samuel's notion of the safety of his Carnival. It's also interesting to see how HRG will react, now that his first attempt at redemption completely failed.
QUOTE (sun41 @ Oct 27 2009, 10:08 AM)
It is ridiculous that the deputy could think he wouldn't be held responsible for murder though.
Sheriff's and deputies 40 or 50 years ago didn't think they could be held responsbile either down there in the south.
QUOTE (bwm27 @ Oct 27 2009, 11:31 AM)
Sheriff's and deputies 40 or 50 years ago didn't think they could be held responsbile either down there in the south.
I was actually waiting for that song 'Jeremy' from Pearl Jam to start playing in the background. Hmm will Peter find Hiro before he swaps powers again? Inquiring minds want to know.....
Actually, he got a lot of respect from the writers. They handled him extremely well.
His death was not a lack of respect, but a massive injection of realism.
His death was not a lack of respect, but a massive injection of realism.
It really wasn't that hard to figure out, and they gave us everything we needed:
1: The officer mentioned, repeatedly, that the kid had been in trouble frequently.
2: They didn't buy the "gas leak" story Noah came up with.
3: It was a small town. The "freak" killed a townsman in a way that could only be called supernatural.
They didn't need to already hate him for what happened to him to happen. What they needed was to be freaked out. Which they were.
The majority of the most heinous acts in human history didn't happen from pure hatred. They happened because of fear.
1: The officer mentioned, repeatedly, that the kid had been in trouble frequently.
2: They didn't buy the "gas leak" story Noah came up with.
3: It was a small town. The "freak" killed a townsman in a way that could only be called supernatural.
They didn't need to already hate him for what happened to him to happen. What they needed was to be freaked out. Which they were.
The majority of the most heinous acts in human history didn't happen from pure hatred. They happened because of fear.
People all over the country think they can get away with murder, even today.
People hate what they fear. They fear what they don't understand.
The townspeople didn't understand Jeremy. They didn't understand what he was capable of.
As I said in another thread (which will most likely end up merged with this one), some of the worst, most heinous, acts in human history were committed not from pure hatred but from fear.
You didn't need anything other than what the show gave us to understand why they (the police) didn't like or trust Jeremy. He had a record, and they didn't buy the gas leak story that Noah came up with. (To be honest about it, I can't believe Noah thought it would work. It has to be one of the weakest stories he's ever come up with.)
Jeremy's death is exactly what I and others have been saying would happen if the general public became aware of SGs. Unfortunately, we were proven correct.
People hate what they fear. They fear what they don't understand.
The townspeople didn't understand Jeremy. They didn't understand what he was capable of.
As I said in another thread (which will most likely end up merged with this one), some of the worst, most heinous, acts in human history were committed not from pure hatred but from fear.
You didn't need anything other than what the show gave us to understand why they (the police) didn't like or trust Jeremy. He had a record, and they didn't buy the gas leak story that Noah came up with. (To be honest about it, I can't believe Noah thought it would work. It has to be one of the weakest stories he's ever come up with.)
Jeremy's death is exactly what I and others have been saying would happen if the general public became aware of SGs. Unfortunately, we were proven correct.
QUOTE (iplaydead @ Oct 23 2009, 01:44 PM)
I have to disagree on one point Synch. Peter most certainly did know how to stop time. This is not the first time he has had the ability. I responded in another thread that your rebuttal makes sense, and for the most part it does, but Peter most certainly did know how to stop time. He may have done it instinctively after putting himself in front of the barrel, but that does not mean that he lacked the knowledge of his ability.
Peter took Edgar's power and beat him with it. Explain that? How can he be so adept at an ability he has not had before, and beat someone who has Super Speed as a native ability, but he lacks the basic knowledge of an ability that he has had before?
Although the Peter/Edgar fight is another story altogether. I find it interesting that Peter won that fight. Since Peter and Edgar were moving at the same speed, you can basically throw speed out of the equation, so how did a paramedic beat an armed knife expert in melee combat? That is a discussion for another thread though.
At the end of the day Synch Jeremy was at least stable enough not to kill Noah when he was touching him. He was stable enough to heal Peter, and he was stable enough for Peter to touch him and grab his ability. Maybe you have a point about his comfort zone, but let's not forget to consider those things. I never said anything about Jeremy healing Hiro either. Peter could have copied his ability at the hospital and healed Hiro, and then Hiro could have sent him home, or Peter could have copied Hiro's ability again, teleported himself, Jeremy, and Noah back to Jeremy's house, and copied his healing ability again. Again though, I am not really hung up on that.
One more thing...I believe I have been civil in my responses, and I can admit when another person's point of view makes more sense than my own, so why does it seem like you always have a condescending air in your posts? This is just a discussion.
Peter took Edgar's power and beat him with it. Explain that? How can he be so adept at an ability he has not had before, and beat someone who has Super Speed as a native ability, but he lacks the basic knowledge of an ability that he has had before?
Although the Peter/Edgar fight is another story altogether. I find it interesting that Peter won that fight. Since Peter and Edgar were moving at the same speed, you can basically throw speed out of the equation, so how did a paramedic beat an armed knife expert in melee combat? That is a discussion for another thread though.
At the end of the day Synch Jeremy was at least stable enough not to kill Noah when he was touching him. He was stable enough to heal Peter, and he was stable enough for Peter to touch him and grab his ability. Maybe you have a point about his comfort zone, but let's not forget to consider those things. I never said anything about Jeremy healing Hiro either. Peter could have copied his ability at the hospital and healed Hiro, and then Hiro could have sent him home, or Peter could have copied Hiro's ability again, teleported himself, Jeremy, and Noah back to Jeremy's house, and copied his healing ability again. Again though, I am not really hung up on that.
One more thing...I believe I have been civil in my responses, and I can admit when another person's point of view makes more sense than my own, so why does it seem like you always have a condescending air in your posts? This is just a discussion.
Don't take it so personally. I'm sure Synch is smiling behind the words and simply striving for clarity.
A few points...
I agree with a lot of what Synch said, but is it also possible that Peter (so rusty with Hiro's power) was trying to stop time, but teleported to where he was thinking about (in front of the kid) instead? We've seen he has never stopped time before, and it is more autonomic than directed travel through time and space.
There were lots of what-ifs, and I'm sure, in light of this week's episodes, HRG would be kicking himself from this whole incident as well. But people can't be counted on to act ideally, so situations turn bad all the time. If the show were a series of super-happy endings and convenient logic, it would get pretty boring. So long as I'm not distracted by their pretzel logic, I'm fine.
I agree with a lot of what Synch said, but is it also possible that Peter (so rusty with Hiro's power) was trying to stop time, but teleported to where he was thinking about (in front of the kid) instead? We've seen he has never stopped time before, and it is more autonomic than directed travel through time and space.
There were lots of what-ifs, and I'm sure, in light of this week's episodes, HRG would be kicking himself from this whole incident as well. But people can't be counted on to act ideally, so situations turn bad all the time. If the show were a series of super-happy endings and convenient logic, it would get pretty boring. So long as I'm not distracted by their pretzel logic, I'm fine.
QUOTE (synch @ Oct 27 2009, 05:54 PM)
It really wasn't that hard to figure out, and they gave us everything we needed:
1: The officer mentioned, repeatedly, that the kid had been in trouble frequently.
2: They didn't buy the "gas leak" story Noah came up with.
3: It was a small town. The "freak" killed a townsman in a way that could only be called supernatural.
They didn't need to already hate him for what happened to him to happen. What they needed was to be freaked out. Which they were.
The majority of the most heinous acts in human history didn't happen from pure hatred. They happened because of fear.
1: The officer mentioned, repeatedly, that the kid had been in trouble frequently.
2: They didn't buy the "gas leak" story Noah came up with.
3: It was a small town. The "freak" killed a townsman in a way that could only be called supernatural.
They didn't need to already hate him for what happened to him to happen. What they needed was to be freaked out. Which they were.
The majority of the most heinous acts in human history didn't happen from pure hatred. They happened because of fear.
I understand, you think things like this are normal---but other people know this was totally at the edge of reality.
Some people watch day-time TV and think its real, others laugh at those who watch it.
Its ok.
I didn't say it was normal. Where in there did I say it was normal?
I said it happens. And I said it was exactly what I, and many others, predicted would happen when the general populace found out about SGs.
And, although it may not be normal, all you have to do is watch the news to know that it's common. People are murdered every day because they're different. Whether it's because they're gay, black, female, not-white, or any of a hundred different reasons.
Frequently, the killer doesn't even know the person they're killing. They just know Different.
People frequently don't understand people that are different. People frequently fear things they don't understand. People frequently hate things they fear.
And some people follow that degenerating spiral all the way to the conclusion of murder.
As I said, if you trace some of the most heinous acts in human history down to their root cause, you'll find fear hiding at the base.
That's completely ignoring the mob mentality. In that kind of a situation, people lose their heads and become nothing but a bunch of raging animals.
I said it happens. And I said it was exactly what I, and many others, predicted would happen when the general populace found out about SGs.
And, although it may not be normal, all you have to do is watch the news to know that it's common. People are murdered every day because they're different. Whether it's because they're gay, black, female, not-white, or any of a hundred different reasons.
Frequently, the killer doesn't even know the person they're killing. They just know Different.
People frequently don't understand people that are different. People frequently fear things they don't understand. People frequently hate things they fear.
And some people follow that degenerating spiral all the way to the conclusion of murder.
As I said, if you trace some of the most heinous acts in human history down to their root cause, you'll find fear hiding at the base.
That's completely ignoring the mob mentality. In that kind of a situation, people lose their heads and become nothing but a bunch of raging animals.
QUOTE (bwm27 @ Oct 27 2009, 10:31 AM)
Sheriff's and deputies 40 or 50 years ago didn't think they could be held responsbile either down there in the south.
True: this isn't 40 or 50 yrs ago though and to make these two things seem the same is just weak.
QUOTE (Wadegarret @ Oct 27 2009, 11:06 PM)
True: this isn't 40 or 50 yrs ago though and to make these two things seem the same is just weak.
Murderers today don't think they can be held liable.
Just yesterday I read of a hate crime committed by a police officer. It's not unheard of. Maybe not as common as it was 30 years ago, but it still happens.
QUOTE (synch @ Oct 27 2009, 06:54 PM)
It really wasn't that hard to figure out, and they gave us everything we needed:
1: The officer mentioned, repeatedly, that the kid had been in trouble frequently.
2: They didn't buy the "gas leak" story Noah came up with.
3: It was a small town. The "freak" killed a townsman in a way that could only be called supernatural.
They didn't need to already hate him for what happened to him to happen. What they needed was to be freaked out. Which they were.
The majority of the most heinous acts in human history didn't happen from pure hatred. They happened because of fear.
1: The officer mentioned, repeatedly, that the kid had been in trouble frequently.
2: They didn't buy the "gas leak" story Noah came up with.
3: It was a small town. The "freak" killed a townsman in a way that could only be called supernatural.
They didn't need to already hate him for what happened to him to happen. What they needed was to be freaked out. Which they were.
The majority of the most heinous acts in human history didn't happen from pure hatred. They happened because of fear.
They gave us everything we needed...they gave us nothing, well, not nothing, we got a Sheriff out to prove this was his town and he wasn't going to take any lip for any big-city man or fancy dressed woman.
1)Yes, but how and for what reasons: Cause he was diffrent, picked on, not into sports, a loner, caught getting his ass kicked by jocks only to be arrested himself? We have no idea. This kid wasn't what was normal in the town, that doesn't mean he was bad and you can't just assume everyone thought there was something wrong with him which would lead them to think anything supernatural. If you took any grungy kid and put him in this bad verison of "Mayberry" I bet they would be seen as anything but normal either.
2)Its not that they didn't buy the leak, they thought Jeremy might have done it---not that it didn't happen.
3)Yes, if people were so easy to just go to the supernatural for answers, but why was the MOB there in the first place...I mean, this whole setup was so lame I don't even know where to begin.
Now I'll go four
4) Why weren't any of the cops freaked out by what they saw...
5) Why were all the cops backwater rednecks who hate all outsiders and anyone who doesn't go to the local football game on friday nights? I mean, could we get anymore contrived?
And what was up with the last cop said: "You think killers go free, not in this town
Not so tough now are you
Go ahead, take your best shot
Give me a reason."
I mean could this be more of a sterotypical bad cop, one who liked picking on kids in highschool and can now do it as a big police officer man...one who doesn't like Jeremy cause he doesn't run fast and doesn't smack other boys on the ass after a good game. I mean come on. This was such a joke.
The writers' statement in this part of the story was so forced it wasn't even funny. And because it was so force, it lost all power and reality with me and many other viewers.
QUOTE
...but other people know this was totally at the edge of reality.
A small Southern town where most people know each other. An outcast teenager who they believe, most likely, is possessed by Satan. A threat to their community, and now he has killed his own parents, but somehow he's walking free. Not only is this not at the edge of reality, it was probable. After Jeremy kills the man outside the prison, someone had to make sure this boy never walks again, in the eyes of the town's residents. And if a similar situation arose in our world, the same, if not worse, would occur.
QUOTE (synch @ Oct 28 2009, 12:00 AM)
I didn't say it was normal. Where in there did I say it was normal?
I said it happens. And I said it was exactly what I, and many others, predicted would happen when the general populace found out about SGs.
And, although it may not be normal, all you have to do is watch the news to know that it's common. People are murdered every day because they're different. Whether it's because they're gay, black, female, not-white, or any of a hundred different reasons.
Frequently, the killer doesn't even know the person they're killing. They just know Different.
People frequently don't understand people that are different. People frequently fear things they don't understand. People frequently hate things they fear.
And some people follow that degenerating spiral all the way to the conclusion of murder.
As I said, if you trace some of the most heinous acts in human history down to their root cause, you'll find fear hiding at the base.
That's completely ignoring the mob mentality. In that kind of a situation, people lose their heads and become nothing but a bunch of raging animals.
I said it happens. And I said it was exactly what I, and many others, predicted would happen when the general populace found out about SGs.
And, although it may not be normal, all you have to do is watch the news to know that it's common. People are murdered every day because they're different. Whether it's because they're gay, black, female, not-white, or any of a hundred different reasons.
Frequently, the killer doesn't even know the person they're killing. They just know Different.
People frequently don't understand people that are different. People frequently fear things they don't understand. People frequently hate things they fear.
And some people follow that degenerating spiral all the way to the conclusion of murder.
As I said, if you trace some of the most heinous acts in human history down to their root cause, you'll find fear hiding at the base.
That's completely ignoring the mob mentality. In that kind of a situation, people lose their heads and become nothing but a bunch of raging animals.
Yes, I can say all the same pseudo intelectual things you just did, but it won't make it any better.
I can't say it enough, the fast paced and almost immediate conclusion of this was so forced---so prechosen as to equal every other form of discrimination without any real depth or growth, that it lost all meaning.
QUOTE (DomesticatedPeach @ Oct 28 2009, 12:44 AM)
A small Southern town where most people know each other. An outcast teenager who they believe, most likely, is possessed by Satan. A threat to their community, and now he has killed his own parents, but somehow he's walking free. Not only is this not at the edge of reality, it was probable. After Jeremy kills the man outside the prison, someone had to make sure this boy never walks again, in the eyes of the town's residents. And if a similar situation arose in our world, the same, if not worse, would occur.
Ummm, did they say he was possessed by Satan? No. See, there you go putting in your own reasons for why things happened.
If we'd heard from towns folk, from any one, that that's what they thought, atleast that would be something. But nope, we got nothing. Maybe the town wasn't even that religious---Was it even a small Town. I mean it looked like it, but maybe it was closed to a major city or developed area. Nope, we don't know that either.
Your conclusions are fine, but the show didn't do anything to point us in any meaningful direction; instead they showed one or two fragmented tidbits and expected that to be enough to push us down the line they already wanted to go.
Thats not good writing.
QUOTE (Wadegarret @ Oct 27 2009, 11:40 PM)
You've...never actually been in a small redneck town, have you?
You can't have. Otherwise you'd know that what you described is actually pretty accurate. There are towns where outsiders are...encouraged...to just keep driving.
And that's by the authorities.
QUOTE (Wadegarret @ Oct 27 2009, 11:40 PM)
Yes, but how and for what reasons: Cause he was diffrent, picked on, not into sports, a loner, caught getting his ass kicked by jocks only to be arrested himself? We have no idea. This kid wasn't what was normal in the town, that doesn't mean he was bad and you can't just assume everyone thought there was something wrong with him which would lead them to think anything supernatural. If you took any grungy kid and put him in this bad verison of "Mayberry" I bet they would be seen as anything but normal either.
He looked different. He acted different. He had death poems in his notebooks. He had his dead parents in his living room. He looked like he was trying out for the lead in a new grunge band.
If you had any experience with extremely small towns, you'd know that anything Different is considered with extreme suspicion.
He had a rap sheet. In the eyes of the public, and the officers, that made him a criminal. Hardly uncommon.
They would need nothing else to suspect him of everything from petty vandalism to mass murder.
Some people in that crowd just wouldn't like him. Some suspected him of Satan worship.
The thing that would lead them to think of anything supernatural? Gee...would that be when he laid hands on his attacker- and the attacker died?
QUOTE (Wadegarret @ Oct 27 2009, 11:40 PM)
Yes, if people were so easy to just go to the supernatural for answers, but why was the MOB there in the first place
Again...you have absolute 0 experience with small towns.
Five minutes after he was arrested, everybody in town knew.
Five minutes after that, everybody knew his parents had died.
Less than ten minutes later, half the town had convicted him of murdering his parents.
Why was the mob there? Because they could be.
I live in a small town. If something happens, pretty much the entire town turns out to watch it.
QUOTE (Wadegarret @ Oct 27 2009, 11:40 PM)
And because it was so force, it lost all power and reality with me and many other viewers.
Not very many other viewers. Even people who hated the episode are commenting on the power of this scene.
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