Not pseudo intellectual. Just fact.



You saying it doesn't mean it's right. The scene was far from forced, far from fast paced.

And...last I checked, prechosen is sort of a prerequisite for scripted.

I'd say
what those douche bags did (btw, kudos to Samuel to bring on the wrath upon them) makes me think of witch hunt.
I mean seriously..when Jeremy was coming out from the police station with Noah and Tracy, the people are exactly like the people back in the dark age, well minus the pitchfork and torch.

Good point! Also, they were like this down in the south 40 or 50 years ago when the civil rights movement was going on.

I lived in Georgia, where the story took place, for many years. What do you mean I don't know about "small towns"? Maybe you just want to believe everyone is crazy like in this town you came from, maybe that's what you can't get past. You think ever small town, many no longer small because of outward growth from bigger nearby cities...but I have plenty of experience with "small towns"

So, again tell me why I was wrong?
If you want to believe this Dark Side of the Moon "Mayberry" is correct in what would happen to an outsider in 2009, that's fine, but plz don't pass it off as the rule instead of it being, at best, at the most random, the fluke----I mean, when was the last time a cop dragged someone behind a truck with chains. You show me that, and maybe I'll buy this extream point of view as somehow applied to this show.

And you keep going back to this Satan thing: tell me where, evidence now, where we know the people in the town thought he might be a Satan worshiper? We know "plenty"---though we don't know how many that is: 5, 10, 50? kids in school had bad things to say about him----and maybe some of those kidds helped him kill the animals----maybe those animals were just as accidently killed by his powers as were his parents (WE DON'T KNOW), we also don't know anything about his religious preference? No. WE don't. So as much as you want to assume, stop saying they all thought he was a Satan worshiper.
I will say this, maybe after the guy died in the street people might start putting the supernatural bit into play, but you can't say they all thought that way before hand.No one knew, or maybe they did; either way, you have no proof from the story.

"Five minutes after he was arrested, everybody in town knew.
Five minutes after that, everybody knew his parents had died.
Less than ten minutes later, half the town had convicted him of murdering his parents."

..ummm, where are you getting these numbers from? OH, again your making them up.

As much as you want to make things spread like wild fire in small towns, that doesn't happen much anymore, it does in very remote places, but small towns aren't really so-much remote anymore. Again, I lived in Ga and if you don't and haven't, I can say that not all places, even small places, are the same.

Lets finish it this way: You think a linchmob is ok, reasonable. I don't, atleast not without enough time to build up the foundation of the story---a two parter at least. You don't mind that it was quick, infact you think it's just what would happen. I don't, atleast not without again having a strong foundation; which I don't think the show gave. You think the scene was moving. I don't, why, I can't so easily buy into the reasons for the final result.

Well, this ends that. We agree to not agree.

Yes...Yes....Dark Ages, Civil Rights "40's and 50's"---NOT CURRENT: or if so, in this particular case, plz give some well weighted background, not a note or some hearsay from other who-know children. Not something that's wraped up in a day with a linchmob--just--add--water.

Small Southern town full of Whites, You have to assume that some of them believed that Jeremy was a Satan-worshiper, or at least possessed. You have to assume he had a bad reputation in the school system. And we have to assume that the local authorities were crooked. It's the stereotypical insular Southern town. It's indirect characterization.

Now I see your problem.
You somehow think that Heroes should only display what would absolutely happen in every White Bread USA town instead of showing the reality that not all people are Good People.


When was the last time someone killed someone just by touching them?
If you can show me that, maybe I'll buy your view.


Did I say they all thought he was? No. I said some thought he was.
I will say this, maybe after the guy died in the street people might start putting the supernatural bit into play, but you can't say they all thought that way before hand.No one knew, or maybe they did; either way, you have no proof from the story.


If you had the experience with small towns you claim, you'd know that what I was saying was completely accurate.
Within a very short time of his being brought in, everybody in town knew it. And knew why. And at least half the people knew he was guilty of murder.

[quote name='Wadegarret' date='Oct 28 2009, 11:58 AM' post='4137876']As much as you want to make things spread like wild fire in small towns, that doesn't happen much anymore, it does in very remote places, but small towns aren't really so-much remote anymore. Again, I lived in Ga and if you don't and haven't, I can say that not all places, even small places, are the same.[/wuote]
Which is advice you would do well to listen to.
I've lived in Georgia, Iowa (currently), Nebraska, Florida, Rhode Island and a half dozen other places. I've never lived anywhere but small towns. And they all had one thing in common- news spread like wildfire.

That is a cute saying, but demonstrably false. I don't understand quantum physics, I don't understand the sport of Cricket. I neither fear nor wish the destruction of either.

I fear lions and great white sharks, but I do not hate them nor wish them destroyed.

I hate flies and wish them destroyed, but I don't fear them.

Next someone will say that wars never solved anything.

I live in a small town, and have lived in smaller. A town big enough to have a police station with several rooms, holding cell, and at least 4 guys on duty at once is probably at least 15-20000. That's small for a city, but still big enough that people do their own thing and just wouldn't care that much.

I think the lynching was more than a bit of a stretch written by Hollywood types who despise flyover country.

Fundamentally, the Sheriff was right. The heater duct was faked and the kid did do it. He wasn't quite sure exactly what happened, but his instincts correctly told him that something was NKR.

Am I missing something here? What I saw wasn't a lynch mob but more or less a group of people protesting the fact that Jeremy was being let go. I mean from what I saw at the end of it all it was a cop and his one buddy who took the law into their own hands and killed this kid. It wasn't mob justice or anything like that, so there was no lynch mob.

lol...wow, never heard so many "have to assume's" before, this is crazy: Had to be a Sathan worshiper--posessed, bad peputation, cops crooked; must not be hard to plz you with you making so many diconnected assumptions for the writers, that way they can say whatever they want and not have to worry about things making sense, you'll make it make sense for them.

*Still laughing*

First, you totally didn't get my Dark Side of the Moon "Mayberry" joke, but that's ok; I'll explain it: no, it wasn't that the town was supposed to be perfect, or "What Bread" whatever that was supposed to me---maybe you have some issues you might want to workout elsewhere; what I was saying is that this town was the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of MAYBERRY.

Ummm, you still didn't answer my question and responding with yourown says you have no answer.

All I have to say is where is your PROOF?
Prove some people thought he was a Satan Worshiper? Prove it...not what you think or believe, what you can PROVE BASED ON WHAT THE SHOW GAVE YOU.
Yep, that's right, they gave you NOTHING.

No, you are not completely accurate, otherwise I'd agree with you? Are you paying attention.

"Claim?" I lived in a small town and I didn't know about what was going on with everyone, neither did everyone else..sure, some people know--those related or close to particular people, but NOT everyone. All small town's are senior living centers where gossip and dish are the entertainment of the day and guess what, you know the thing about Small Towns, most things are done Privately; so why would anyone know he was the killer---what they might know is that his Parents were dead I mean, you can't hide the cops showing up at his house, but otherwise, you can't PROVE any of this cause the show didn't SAY anything what anyone outside the cops, H.R and Tracy knew.

Like the other guy who wrote the funniest post ever, you just have to ASSUME ASSUME ASSUME and you know what all that ASSUMING makes you, right?

Thank you very much.

I even agree with you, the Sheriff got that it was fake, the kid did it; not how, but that he did.

Everything else, as we agree, was just bad bad writing.

Maybe now synch will hear the voice or reason.

Correct but also False

They were a lynchmob who failed to do some lyinching; thats why the cops were there, if they weren't, Jeremy would've been strung up *or killed however* right there in the streets. Only cause the cops stopped them, Jeremy stopping the one guy who got through---who others would've followed if given the chance, did that not happen. So your group of people protesting Jeremy's release, was still a lyinchmob.

Thanks for playing though.

And where is your proof of this? Did they ever explicitly say that they would have done this?? Who knows.




I do know it makes you an unsophisticated viewer who is looking for another clean spoon, and who believes that a false meaning can be derived from a similar-looking word.

Please don't be so ignorant.

My proof is the intent seen in the lynchmob, you know, what I GOT TO SEE casue the show LET ME not what I had to MAKE UP cause it DIDN'T...but I will have to say that yes, at the last second, they might have stopped. One person in the crowd, might have laid a hand on Jeremy and called everyone out for what they were doing. People could've seen the light. Sure, I'll give you that...but intent has far more weight than what I was talking about: a single personal letter, hearsay from unknown kids, assumpitons of Satan Worship with no proof and radical violence as the rule instead of the fluke---none of it have context, a word you must never have heard before. Or perhaps you agree with synch, either way, I wouldn't expect you to understand.

"Another clean spoon": plz explain your confusing saying.

"False meaning from a similar looking world": now if we were talking about the ocean, and in this world it was green intead of blue, and I said it was water, but it turned out it was acid, then what you said would make sense...but a lynchmob is a lynchmob and maybe all weren't their for violence but neither are they in real life too, it just ends up happening after one too many people get to throw stones without anyone stopping them---again INTENT, they weren't there for a pie eating contest were they, that was next week.

Its ok, as they say in those so-called small towns you prob know so well, better than me atleast if you agree with synch: "I'll pray for you."

You're proof is the lynch mob? What lynch mob?

What I saw, because it's what was, oh I don't know, actually on screen was a bunch of people who were pissed off that an apparent murderer was being allowed out.

Only one tried to actually attack. If it had been a lynch mob, do you really think 2 or 3 cops would have made any difference at all? Of course not.

All you have to do is turn on you TV and watch reruns of the riots less than fifteen years ago to get that your opinion on that particular issue is dead wrong.

Where's my proof about the way things work in a small White Bread town? Hmm...could it be more than twenty years living exclusively in small towns?

Mobs like the one you're attempting to describe, but wasn't on screen, actually...well, they actually do want violence. And they get it. They can't be stopped by a couple cops, at least one of which was more than half on their side anyway.

What we saw was reality. People hate what they don't understand, it's as easy as that. Whether it be skin color, religion, gender or sexual identity, if people don't understand it they hate it. And that hate breeds violence.

Don't believe me? Watch your evening news for a week.

And Jeremy presented a legitimate threat to them. So the hatred was magnified by a nearly unreasoning fear.

You don't understand the term White Bread? It's really not that hard to figure out. It means, basically, completely normal, bland, faceless.

Where's your proof of the lynchmob? Where's your proof that the town needed any past history to not trust Jeremy? Where's your proof that the cop didn't have exactly what he said? (A record, a bad reputation at school, and death poetry/writings in his notebook)
The cops didn't trust or like Jeremy. The town didn't trust or like Jeremy. You didn't need set up for that. As soon as you got a look at the plain, cookie cutter, setup of the town you knew they wouldn't have a place for someone as obviously different from everyone else.

And you think we've left this kind of thing behind us by 50 or 60 years? Have you even watched your news in the last decade?

IMO, what was really wrong with this bit is that they failed to show that the whole town hated him before they formed an angry mob. It just went: Sheriff thinks he's guilty but can't prove it, HRG tries to get him freed, Sheriff really hates him, HRG and Tracy try to get him off, Sheriff still hates him, OMG ENTIRE TOWN IS CLAMORING FOR HIS BLOOD!!!

Like someone already said, a simple scene in a diner where the other townspeople talked about how the kid is obviously guilty and quite possibly a Satan worshiper could have fixed this whole mess. It's certainly plausible that people could have believed he was a "freak" and could have developed fear-fueled rage about it, but they need to show it happening. Even a brief mention by one of the sheriffs of a mob protesting outside the day before would have done it. The closest thing we ever got to that was him repeating rumors that he killed animals for fun, which would presumably make him a lot of enemies.

You know, considering the amount of time that the show wasted on unnecessary over-characterizations of main characters in past seasons, you'd think they would have taken 30 seconds to characterize a whole town.

As I said, the scene was done very well and was very moving. This epsisode drew back in a lot of fans and this performance is going to increase the ratings even more. The episode drew in 5.86 million viewers from the 5.67 million the following week. Anyways, this explanation will probably appear in an upcoming GN or an upcoming episode. The budget for this episode probably stopped such a scene from occuring. Nothing is left unanswered!

Sadly all that qualifies for is "not quite as bad as last week." Better than Jay Leno at least.

So you want to waste several minutes of show time giving us information we were already given in the scene?

That's like devoting a scene to how HRG got Claire into that school. Or devoting a scene to Noah and Sandra actually getting a divorce. Or any of a hundred other completely unnecessary scenes.

The cops told us everything we needed to know about why the town didn't like Jeremy. The mob told us that they considered Jeremy guilty of murder.

What else do you need?



Umm...not losing viewers says "not quite as bad as last week." Gaining viewers says it was considered a good episode.

Context is the reason why Synch and I understand the scene. You have to be spoon-fed (This is what I meant by "clean spoon") everything instead of actually thinking about it.




ASSUMING

Don't assume that because people don't like a scene that they don't understand it or need to be spoon fed.

The truth is that Heroes has a pretty bad tendency (IMO) to leave out "little bits" that would make things much more clear. And it is not a matter of needing to see HRG go pee to know that he does. It's a lot of "hey, how did he know that?" or "why did she do that?" or "how did he get there?" Sure I can make up a reason (you would say figure it out) but isn't that their job? I understand if something is left intentionally a mystery, but often I feel things are just overlooked.

To use an analogy of a more mundane nature, most shows will give little subtle clues that people are traveling from one place to another (pick up keys, or just grab a coat and walk out the door, get out of the car and walk up a sidewalk). These little cues are not always (rarely are) important to the plot, but they give a feeling of continuity.

The lack of these cues does not bother some people. It does bother others (like me). It is not because I am not smart enough to make up my own explanations, I just think it's sloppy story telling.

Thank you, but some people don't listen.

That's the problem, you drew volumes of "your own made up information" from the few things said and shown; while others, like me, feel they gave just the slightest bit of purely circumstantial information.

I mean, there are people in the world who say "if there's smoke there's fire" but ya know what, thats why they dont get to sit on the bench with the big boys who have to hear the other side of whatever it is going on

We are not saying make Jeremy's story a two parter (although that might've been best before killing of a really good character for such a wasted reason), but a few SECONDS, no one said anything about minutes, of PEOPLE in the TOWN saying all the CRAZY thing's you've just made your self believe are their reasons for showing up outside the police station.

And you know these secens aren't even close to the ones you mentioned: Noah getting Claire into school; you know we are talking about Scenes that matter---but as someone else said, some people, like you, aren't botthered by things left out. You just follow the story as its put before you and don't wonder "Hey, how did that happen" or "why does he think that, he has no reason to know that"

And you said the Cops told us everthing we need to know why the Town doesn't like Jeremy---I didn't hear him say that or anything like that. Maybe you should listen to the "words coming out of his mouth" not the ones "you thought he was saying"

Also, didn't you earlier say it wasn't a mob? Now it is---I'm confused.
Either way, I am glad to hear that you now think its a mob-just-add-water, which it was. I mean, if you fill in all the gaps yourself, sure---they could be their cause they think He's an ALIEN...could I say that; that the town is there cause their affraid he's an alien and that he used his Alien space ship to kill his parents, I mean that sounds just as equall to you saying that some of them, without anything in the show to point to, think he is a Satan Worshiper.

Alright, so ALien = Satan Worshiper; glad I finally got your logic down.

Again, another voice of reason.

And yes, I understood your line about the spoon; was just confused cause if you know that assuming is bad----why are you and synch doing sooo sooo much of it? Might be the reason why you still can't get context right. Its ok though, we're here to help.

K, just know later you call it a MOB....

2 or 3 cops? Did you see how many were there...or were you still in the land of "insert parts not in the show"?

Riots 15 years ago: That's the reason this all makes sense to you?

Ya, I've lived in them for longer----but again, I must be wrong cause you know best.

I hate Chaos Math: must destroy it. I hate working on Weekends: must destroy it. I hate----see where I'm going; its laughable and simple minded.

Yes I knew what you meant "White Bread" but again its laughable and simple minded to think everything is so cookie-cutted.

I agree; the cops didn't like him and I agree it was becasue he was different, but ya know, they tend to shun them...not CRY FOR THEIR BLOOD as someone else said, which is what they were doing and to believe that's the norm instead of the fluke, is silly...I can't say it enough.

Record? No idea what was in it---if Noah had access to it, maybe we would know if any of it was reasonable.
Bed Rep? DO we know what it was outside a few kids, who may or may not have good reasons for saying what the cop said they knew about Jeremy.
Private writings? Yes...lock up everyone who writes things down they think no one will read.

What made him obviously diffent: his long hair, his poor clothes----nope, he looked like he could be in a crowd of any other kids to me? What did you see?

Also, Mobs, Lynch or otherwise, have to start with one person crossing the line---as I said earlier, the only reason it didn't spill into complete chaos is casue of the cops. Had Jeremy been sent out with just H.R and Tracy, yea...skulls would've been split open as more and more people joined in with the first guy---that is if he was able to hurt Jeremy or any of the others easily enough.

As to your last statment-----so you think Ga is the state where we drag people behind cars to death? Interesting. Says alot about you, really.

I enjoyed the way they handled his death. The brutality of it was shocking and made a deep impact, even if a tad unrealistic. Notice I just said it was a little bit realistic, I'm more on Synch's side and agree that is was well done. Try to just watch and enjoy sometimes instead of over analyzing every little detail snd you may find it more enjoyable. People who get all bent out of shape over things being portrayed wrong can get on my nerves. Sure, maybe you say dragging him behind a truck is something out of place in today's society, or that the town reacted with a typical country town stereotype, but that is just how things played out in this town the writer's created. Things don't always have to follow your rules. I do think a scene showing building up to that point showing the town's opinion on him would have helped, but it doesn't hurt it too much without it.

I’m sorry, couldn’t resist so I'm jumping in. I’ve read the entire thread and I’m here thinking, what was there not to get? It was all explained, why the town did not like Jeremy etc… all the points made above that don’t need repeating, but also let’s factor in:

- Two strangers came out of nowhere to get this kid out of jail. They tried to put more obstacles, Tracy makes a call to some big shot in Washington and the kid is free. Like Samuel said, they certainly shook things up a little bit in there. Could that not also have helped to fuel the mob’s (not to mention the police officers) anger?

All they knew was, the boy was trouble, and his parents were dead. Instead of letting things go as normal, these two important-looking strangers show up and try to change everything. “That don’t rock in Brooklyn”. That doesn’t fly in a small or a big town, people want to see justice (or what they think is justice) served, with the information that they have, that may or not be the best or the most accurate at the time. And that’s the thing about mobs, the more “carried away” they get, the more irrational, the more they lose their capability to think individually and nothing good can’t come out of that.

- Also, speaking of “justice”, “real world”, “suspension of disbelief”, and “this show is not based on reality” yada yada yada: Jeremy did kill his parents, unintentionally, but he did. As the audience and in the way the story was told, of course we’re supposed to relate and sympathize with Jeremy and what he we was going through, nobody wanted to see him in jail (I know I didn’t), but in “real life”, maybe he should be, or at least be tried? Same thing with Samuel. Loved what he did to the police station, who didn’t? But when was that ever an ok thing in “the real world”? Loooved when Tracy took revenge on those agents earlier in the season, sure. But “in the real world”, her “Redemption” would and should be happening on an electric chair.

All I’m saying is, if you wanna go there, you wanna do that kind of comparison, at least try to make some sense. Because last time I checked, people do not have super-powers “in the real world”, and that’s just one thing. The show is very much based on reality, yes, as far as it can be. And instead of taking things so damn literally, maybe next time try checking out the metaphors, too, for a change, because they’re definitely there and for a good reason.

PS: Of course ^ I’m not talking about Volume 3. That was a whole different galaxy.

And lastly, sorry I don’t remember if this was brought up in this thread or another, but people, tell me when was this show ever a good one to watch with your kiddies? I mean, please. Because Sylar slicing people’s heads open was ok? Of course, this is not “The L Word” or “True Blood” or “Hung” (or any other HBO show for that matter), but it’s not “The Backyardigans”, either, if you know what I mean.

And I’m not even going to get into the Claire/Gretchen thing, but I just might have read a post about how inappropriate and *shocking!!!* it was seeing Peter kissing Nathan’s forehead (don’t remember watching that, btw) but I mean, come on….. brothers showing affection, OMFG, where is this world going? It must be the Apocalypse…!

Thank you so much.

I'm not making up volumes of anything. I'm taking what they showed me, and nothing but what they showed me.

They don't need to show anything else. Everything you need was in that scene.

To use your analogy: Do you need to see the character grab his car keys to know he drove? Of course not. Frequently, it's a small piece of information that never even makes it on-screen because there is no need for it. The rational viewer figures it out just from what he did see. (Character was at home. Now he's Somewhere Else. He can't teleport/fly/anything else. Thus, he obviously drove.)

What Peach was saying is spot on, completely accurate. What you're saying is that, in order to buy that the character drove from Home to Somewhere Else, you need to see him pick up his keys, start the car, and back out of the driveway.

I'll say it again, Travel, bathroom breaks or anything trivial are not the things we are talking about and I never said they were.

No one needs to know how someone got from some place to another, unless it ends up being important.

I think the background why a kid is so easily turned on by his whole town, the Mob, the cops, everyone who, as many have said, "Would think he was a Satan Worshiper" although NO SUCH THING WAS EVERY SAID IN THE SHOW, could use a little bit more detail than what was given.

You think its enough, but imagine if Jeremy was your kid or your friend and you showed up in jail to pick him up and found them holding him for these B.S charges; youd want information, you wouldn't want hersay or one weak personal note taken and used in a way outside of that inwhich it was written, you wouldn't want them to keep him in Jail cause they didn't like him, his clothes or his hair cut or cause they had a HUNCH, you'd want hard evidence and if you didn't get it, youd want him OUT.

Its that simple.

1) No such thing was ever said in the show. THIS DOES NOT MATTER!! We rely on preconceived notions and stereotypical prototypes to fill in the blanks, what the writers are expecting us to do. Is it a coincidence that Jeremy looked the way he did, or that he lived in a seemingly small Southern town, or that everyone was White? No. We must assume based on this evidence.

2)Isn't this HRG and Tracy? How does this further your point?

First, tell Synch it was a Mob, I know he finally agreed it was a mob, but I don't want him to forget.

Two Strangers: sure, and I'm fine with them getting a little grief from the Sheriff; the same they'd give to the FBI if they showed up and took over the case. I get that and infact I was expecting that with H.R's background.

See, you said the boy was Trouble: that's kinda open ended isnt it----if this were Law and Order youd want more details. Why is it any different now; I mean, are Laws different in the Hero's world? No, they're not. You just don’t want to waste your time since that’s not what this show is about. Be honest…that’s why.

The Mob: ok, they were there---sure, we all saw them; but why? I know we can all go "oh, well small town bla bla bla bla bla" but that's US filling in NEEDED GAPS. As others have said, this felt like a witch hunt, or something from the Dark Ages or even what happened in the 40’s through the late 60’s and that’s fine; but the problem with comparing those to this is that with those we had BACKGROUND. With this we don’t. We were just shown it and that’s that…

Jeremy in jail: I was fine with him in Jail, I didn't think it would be easy to get him out unless H.R pulled some serious strings or broke him out; I do have to say you're the only one who mentioned a TRIAL----to bad that would've taken too long to work around, to erase---but maybe would‘ve made for some really interesting episodes---so ya, they had the stereotype bad, ignorant cops take him out back and earn the words on their bumper stickers: "Ga: We drag you till you die." Really? Drag him through the streets…this didn’t scream SENSATIONALISIM so no one paid attention to what really happened, all the blacked out lines that could’ve been very interesting had they taken the time to flush out their ideas.

No one said what Sam and Tracy did was good----so, what's your point?


Yes. I know the show is based in reality as much as possible-----after the death of his parents, the show became nothing but IN REALITY; so why did everyone unplug and just let the horrible criminal aspect of the show then go right out the window? Why? Cause it was easy----if any of this was about a display of powers incorrectly, there'd be hundreds of posts all about it---their would be charts and graphs and cries of outrage because bla bla bla bla bla; but because its a typo with the way real criminals are dealt with, its ok. WE let it go; this isn't L&O so who cares...this is Heroes; if they’re not healing, flying, losing their heads and so on and so on, it doesn’t matter as much.

Sorry, but much of what happened in this single episode, to bad for Jeremy cause he was great, was bad, quick writing . The point of which was to get Tracy to nolonger trust people.

That’s it.

Its really too bad too.

OH, but thanks for your input anyway.

I really really hope you dont rely so much on preconceived notions and stereotypical prototypes this much in your real life, cause if so, man I'm scared.

LOL. Actually, these are traits of the human mind. Studied and documented. So unless you're saying that you're not an ably functioning human, your response is completely wrong. FTW!

Traits do not equal something so simple as yes and no switches.

Maybe some people just reason at a higher level than others?

My point exactly.

Lay off the purse slapping please.

Beqcuase they had to show the power being used

I completely lost track of the point of this thread and I don't feel like reading through all 10 pages to refresh my memory, but I think that what people have to remember about Heroes is, just because they don't explain something right away, doesn't mean they'll never explain it. There have been a number of instances throughout the series where they'd show something that didn't entirely make sense at that moment, but once some other things played out, made a lot more sense. How about we wait until at least the end of the season to see if they explain things a bit more before we go claiming "bad writing" or "plot holes". If they fail to explain things by then, then you have a legitimate reason to wonder what the hell they were going for with a certain scene or a certain character, but heaven forbid they make you wait at all to show why they did things the way they did things. Not everything needs to be laid out in front of you all at once. It wouldn't make for a particularly interesting show if there wasn't some mystery involved.

Yea, I've lost track of what the heck this thread is about, but I'll disagree that we somehow need to wait until the show is canceled to yell "bad writing" or "plot hole". I think in most cases it isn't that hard to tell the difference between something intentionally made a mystery and something they either forgot or didn't think about in the first place. I also think it's pretty easy to tell about an intended explanation and an after the fact retcon.

I started to write down some examples, but that would just dig up too much of the past.

I didn't say we had to wait for the show to be cancelled to complain about bad writing or plot holes, I just think that people are too quick to put those labels on things that aren't immediately explained or resolved. It seems that people have reached a point where, if the show isn't done how they want it done, then it must be a plot hole or bad writing. Honestly, if you're at a point with the show where you're finding something every week to complain about, you should probably just move on and watch something else.

Who said anything about "plot holes"? I've just been saying they went a little light on details for this one storyline, which is bad if not weak writing.

Bad Writing doesn't always = Polot Holes, but Plot Holes always = Bad Writing.

Bad writing is having something happen with no reasonable explanation.

In this scene there was plenty of explanation. Thus, it was not bad writing. And the vast majority of people who have discussed this particular scene had no problem figuring it out- based entirely on what was shown. (Which, Wade, is something I've been saying since before you showed up on the boards.)

Ah, if only it were so simple. Just as good writing is ethereal, bad writing also encompasses a number of intangible elements. If a viewer watches and perceives that something is inadequately explained for their tastes, then it is. I'm generally not a "perception = reality" guy, but when it comes to something like this it really is true. Bad writing, bad directing, bad editing is bad if perceived to be bad. Certainly there are some cut/dried examples that can be agreed upon by all, but more often the "good/bad" exists in some middle ground.

It is easy to believe the whole town turned on the kid so quickly because of the following reasons:

1. He killed two members of a small close knit community.

2. He basically killed a guy simply by touching him in front of everyone.

3. This is the oldest story in the book, people fear what they don't understand.

I can't explain this further without getting into offensive stereotypes.

Dragging him through the street attached to a car is not sensationalism, else you would also be calling the following sensationalism which have occurred in real life:

- KKK Lynchings
- Witch Burnings
- Being ripped apart while tied to two horses
- Being stuck on a cross and left out to die (I'm not talking about Jesus here either).
- Public hangings
- Todays public executions

It's all the same, it is people wanting justice and even today that is taken into the hands of individuals particularly in said close knit communities where everyone knows each other and is affected. Therefore they seek the most brutal and extreme public punishments, there you get being dragged through the streets by a car.

The other issue I am seeing in this thread is the utter persecution of Synch.

Oh my goodness people, I don't always agree with what he says either but some of you here are going way overboard with your responses. There is a polite way to agree or disagree, this guy takes his time out to moderate these forums for us, so keep that in mind when you type up a reply to one of his posts please.

Actually...that's not even remotely true.

You may think it's bad writing. Doesn't mean it is. It's like all the people that scream PLOT HOLE every time something comes out they don't like.

it's never simple because perception is reality and the problem with perception is that it's faulted by the person watching the scene. Someone can watch a scene and get it while others watch the same scene and question it. does this mean the scene was done wrong because some question it, or does it mean the person who questioned it might have simply missed something?
Not saying either way, just saying that sometimes it is bad writing, but sometimes it's also bad perception.