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bwm27
It was great that Noah and Peter tracked down Jeremy and showed him how he could heal and not take life. This showed also what a healer can do. Apparently, they can take life just as they can give it. Noah showed him the way of being a healer and it seems that Noah is on his redemption path as well. I can't wait for Jeremy to heal Hiro soon. Noah is starting to see what he should be doing.
tidho
I'd agree that Noah is certainly on his way to redemption.

Doesn't exaclty make sense why they wouldn't just return Jeremy to Hiro in literally no time at all though.
lilOUmikey
QUOTE (tidho @ Oct 19 2009, 09:21 PM) *
I'd agree that Noah is certainly on his way to redemption.

Doesn't exaclty make sense why they wouldn't just return Jeremy to Hiro in literally no time at all though.


would you want an unstable kid who just had a shotgun in peter's face experience teleportation for the first time with the ability to kill by touch? i think not
Colt1911
I like him even if he did shoot Peter it was an accident
solar_eclipse
Now Peter has an extremely useful power for his profession. I'm surprised he doesn't go around the whole hospital healing everyone. Also, could it get out of control and he accidentally kills someone, or even Hiro?! I could imagine him holding onto this power for awhile, but he's more likely to keep switching them up.
MaySone
QUOTE (solar_eclipse @ Oct 19 2009, 11:47 PM) *
Now Peter has an extremely useful power for his profession. I'm surprised he doesn't go around the whole hospital healing everyone. Also, could it get out of control and he accidentally kills someone, or even Hiro?! I could imagine him holding onto this power for awhile, but he's more likely to keep switching them up.



You're surprised he doesn't do that? He just got the power! rolleyes.gif
Scars
QUOTE (Samael82 @ Oct 20 2009, 12:47 AM) *
Peter taking a helicopter instead of teleporting himself and the kid was another example of lazy writing.


The kid was unstable and killing everything around him. Sure he was able to heal Peter, but do you really want an unstable person with the power to take life in a hospital?
Samael82
QUOTE (Scars @ Oct 20 2009, 01:01 AM) *
The kid was unstable and killing everything around him. Sure he was able to heal Peter, but do you really want an unstable person with the power to take life in a hospital?

He would only have to be in the hospital for about 5 seconds. The way it ended hes gonna be around lots of people answering questions anyway. Whats the difference?
Peter_Petrilli
HRG was with the kid. HRG knows the Haitian. Thus no one ever remembers anything.

Peter lost teleportation and needed to take a regular transport back to NYC.
Samael82
QUOTE (Peter_Petrilli @ Oct 20 2009, 01:19 AM) *
HRG was with the kid. HRG knows the Haitian. Thus no one ever remembers anything.

Peter lost teleportation and needed to take a regular transport back to NYC.

The point is Peter could have teleported the kid and himself back to the hospital instead of taking the healing ability. I know the writers want to keep the "Hiro is dying" story going but they could have found another way around this.
psychopathicroc
I'm sure that actually obtaining the ability is a more permanent, body altering change then just trying to heal with the blood. Don't count out Sylar's father based on just that.
MaySone
QUOTE (Samael82 @ Oct 20 2009, 01:36 AM) *
The point is Peter could have teleported the kid and himself back to the hospital instead of taking the healing ability. I know the writers want to keep the "Hiro is dying" story going but they could have found another way around this.


Once again(this has already been mentioned in this very topic), Peter and HRG didn't want the kid who had no control over his powers to try and heal Hiro. Peter would have been a sure thing. That's why Peter took the power instead of teleporting the kid to the hospital. This is not "lazy writing" and it's not them wanting to keep the "Hiro is dying story going", it's Peter and HRG doing the smart thing.
Batallo
Just thinking. He coulda teleported them all there then took the powa


unless he took the power by accident.
jndasun
While I do agree with some posters, it wasn't "lazy' but just curious

Just like the cleared up the Clair's Blood healing all speculation, the writers could have cleared this up with a quick 5 second dialog

Peter - to Noah
"OK I'll Teleport us back to the hospital the kid will heal Hiro and I'll port us back in time (before the cops arrive)'

HRG (pulling Peter aside)

"Peter, even though he saved you, the kid is instable. We cannot rely on him healing Hiro; he could harm patients in the hospital. Our best bet is having you take his power and heal Hiro, you're better at this than anyone"

easy
iplaydead
QUOTE (lilOUmikey @ Oct 19 2009, 09:25 PM) *
would you want an unstable kid who just had a shotgun in peter's face experience teleportation for the first time with the ability to kill by touch? i think not


Jeremy would not have to touch anyone though. Peter could have teleported him back to the hospital, copied his healing touch, healed Hiro, and then Hiro could have just sent the kid back home.

Jeremy was a bit more stable anyway since Noah showed him how to heal instead of killing.
agent00
QUOTE (jndasun @ Oct 20 2009, 11:26 AM) *
"Peter, even though he saved you, the kid is instable. We cannot rely on him healing Hiro; he could harm patients in the hospital. Our best bet is having you take his power and heal Hiro, you're better at this than anyone"


I agree that this certainly would have made things clearer, but it could also be implied that this exchange occurred behind the scenes. I have to agree that the actions they took in the episode were the smart ones. Jeremy is still absolutely frightened of his abilities. He's still dealing with being responsible for his parents' death, almost killing Peter, and having to deal with the feds over what happened. He has enough on his plate to worry about without being asked for another favor.
DomesticatedPeach
Another question regarding the "Jeremy scene"

When Peter and HRG were trying to disarm Jeremy, why didn't Peter simply freeze time, walk up the stairs and take the shotgun, walk back down the stairs (being prudent here), and then resume time? It would have been much easier to talk to Jeremy if he hadn't had a shotgun.
agent00
Because stopping time causes cancer? smile.gif
DomesticatedPeach
Mere seconds don't matter for someone who has all the time in the world.
iplaydead
QUOTE (DomesticatedPeach @ Oct 20 2009, 01:17 PM) *
Another question regarding the "Jeremy scene"

When Peter and HRG were trying to disarm Jeremy, why didn't Peter simply freeze time, walk up the stairs and take the shotgun, walk back down the stairs (being prudent here), and then resume time? It would have been much easier to talk to Jeremy if he hadn't had a shotgun.


I honestly was wondering that myself. I am actually a bit disappointed about it. Peter is supposed to be smarter after being nerfed. I swear Space/Time Manipulation has a side effect that suppresses critical thinking.
Wadegarret
QUOTE (iplaydead @ Oct 20 2009, 01:50 PM) *
I honestly was wondering that myself. I am actually a bit disappointed about it. Peter is supposed to be smarter after being nerfed. I swear Space/Time Manipulation has a side effect that suppresses critical thinking.


No. It has nothing to do with Peter's critical thinking, more to do with they wanted to show Jeremy using his powers for good, H.R talking the boy through a horrible time and later moment when Peter is shot, the action and drama of Peter being shot, which all ends up being an over all good scene.

Also, if Peter had told H.R he could do just that, go up and take the gun, H.R would've said something about wanting to handle this on hisown, that he knows the boy, and can fix this cause he feels bad about leaving him.

Either way, Peter wouldn't have been just poping in and poping out. The situations don't always work like that.

Also, they might have done it that Peter tried to do just that, but becasue he hasn't used Hiro's powers for awhile, he suddenly appears infront of the boy, who's nervous, and shoots anyway.

No matter what, Peter was getting shot---that was the point; now, would you rather Peter use his powers poorly and get shot, or listen to H.R who thought he could talk the boy down, but failed to, and then gets shot?

If you think about this show as trying to solve problems with powers in the most efficient way, your not going to enjoy it: its not a math problem, its drama.

I like the way it happened and have no problem with it.
Winchester1894
I'm curious to see if Jeremy has a part in the next episode;I think he will be. I'd love to see more of HRG trying to help him.
PARASITE76
I was wondering if it is possible the reason HRG is staying with Jeremy is because Angela has Nathans body somewhere being kept alive with only a machine, and by using Jeremy's powers could bring Nathan back to life.The body they burned might of been the shape shifter and Nathan's body is somewhere else. I keep remembering the comment HRG made about the bugs only had to have a leg twitching to be brought back to life. If Nathan's body is somewhere and his heart is beating by only a machine that would count! Could just be wishful thinking.
iplaydead
QUOTE (Wadegarret @ Oct 20 2009, 02:19 PM) *
No. It has nothing to do with Peter's critical thinking, more to do with they wanted to show Jeremy using his powers for good, H.R talking the boy through a horrible time and later moment when Peter is shot, the action and drama of Peter being shot, which all ends up being an over all good scene.

Also, if Peter had told H.R he could do just that, go up and take the gun, H.R would've said something about wanting to handle this on hisown, that he knows the boy, and can fix this cause he feels bad about leaving him.

Either way, Peter wouldn't have been just poping in and poping out. The situations don't always work like that.

Also, they might have done it that Peter tried to do just that, but becasue he hasn't used Hiro's powers for awhile, he suddenly appears infront of the boy, who's nervous, and shoots anyway.

No matter what, Peter was getting shot---that was the point; now, would you rather Peter use his powers poorly and get shot, or listen to H.R who thought he could talk the boy down, but failed to, and then gets shot?

If you think about this show as trying to solve problems with powers in the most efficient way, your not going to enjoy it: its not a math problem, its drama.

I like the way it happened and have no problem with it.


If they wanted to show the kid using his powers, Peter could have just stopped time, grabbed the shotgun, unloaded the shells, went to the den and grabbed a book, got a papercut, started time back, and had the kid heal his finger. That would have been infinitely smarter than teleporting in front of a distressed kid who is holding a shotgun.
DomesticatedPeach
QUOTE (Wadegarret @ Oct 20 2009, 03:19 PM) *
No matter what, Peter was getting shot---that was the point;


If Peter did what I described earlier, he would not have been shot (unless he decided to commit suicide).

I do agree that disarming Jeremy like this would not have made the situation any better, probably worse, so it's understandable why HRG wanted to talk to Jeremy.

Criticism retracted.
luckybob34
QUOTE (PARASITE76 @ Oct 20 2009, 03:43 PM) *
I was wondering if it is possible the reason HRG is staying with Jeremy is because Angela has Nathans body somewhere being kept alive with only a machine, and by using Jeremy's powers could bring Nathan back to life.The body they burned might of been the shape shifter and Nathan's body is somewhere else. I keep remembering the comment HRG made about the bugs only had to have a leg twitching to be brought back to life. If Nathan's body is somewhere and his heart is beating by only a machine that would count! Could just be wishful thinking.


Taking this a step further, why did they not use Claire's blood to heal Nathan. She clearly makes mention of it in this episode, so why didn't HRG get some of Claire's go-go juice and heal ol' Nate up.

It would have been better if they never mentioned the blood healing thing again. Sometimes I wonder about these writers.
Samael82
QUOTE (MaySone @ Oct 20 2009, 08:01 AM) *
Once again(this has already been mentioned in this very topic), Peter and HRG didn't want the kid who had no control over his powers to try and heal Hiro. Peter would have been a sure thing. That's why Peter took the power instead of teleporting the kid to the hospital. This is not "lazy writing" and it's not them wanting to keep the "Hiro is dying story going", it's Peter and HRG doing the smart thing.

No the smart thing would be to try and heal Hiro as quickly as possible. Peter said he could die in two months or two hours. If it was my friend I wouldn't be wasting time on an airplane or helicopter when I could teleport. It really doesn't matter though I still thought the episode kicked ass.
iplaydead
QUOTE (DomesticatedPeach @ Oct 20 2009, 05:04 PM) *
If Peter did what I described earlier, he would not have been shot (unless he decided to commit suicide).

I do agree that disarming Jeremy like this would not have made the situation any better, probably worse, so it's understandable why HRG wanted to talk to Jeremy.

Criticism retracted.


It would not necessarily have made it worse. If Peter had stopped time, grabbed the shotgun, unloaded the ammo, and put the shotgun back in his hand, then Jeremy might have just assumed that he ran out of ammo. HRG would have gone up the stairs unarmed as before, and probably would have talked the kid down without anyone getting hurt.
Ezhram
QUOTE (iplaydead @ Oct 20 2009, 03:51 PM) *
If they wanted to show the kid using his powers, Peter could have just stopped time, grabbed the shotgun, unloaded the shells, went to the den and grabbed a book, got a papercut, started time back, and had the kid heal his finger. That would have been infinitely smarter than teleporting in front of a distressed kid who is holding a shotgun.


to me it looked like Peter grabbed the gun and got in front of it and stopped time but wasn't fast enough cause if you notice on his face the moment after he stopped time there was a moment of; I did it on his face, then a second later the realization that he wasn't fast enough and then he collapsed.
iplaydead
QUOTE (Ezhram @ Oct 21 2009, 08:02 AM) *
to me it looked like Peter grabbed the gun and got in front of it and stopped time but wasn't fast enough cause if you notice on his face the moment after he stopped time there was a moment of; I did it on his face, then a second later the realization that he wasn't fast enough and then he collapsed.



Yes that is exactly what happend. What I want to know is why Peter would not just stop time at the bottom of the stairs instead of teleporting closer to the shotgun and trying to stop time before getting shot. It just doesn't make any sense.
Ezhram
QUOTE (iplaydead @ Oct 21 2009, 09:07 AM) *
Yes that is exactly what happend. What I want to know is why Peter would not just stop time at the bottom of the stairs instead of teleporting closer to the shotgun and trying to stop time before getting shot. It just doesn't make any sense.


I don't know, maybe because the scene was about him getting shot so that we could witness Noah convincing Jeremy that he wasn't a killer but a healer. To me those scenes were all about Noah and yes Peter could have just stopped time and taken the gun, but then we wouldn't of had that scene from Noah and that's what it was all about.
psychopathicroc
Peter is going to risk his life so that Noah can have a moment? =/

We know the impact it had for the viewer but we are talking about common sense from the characters in story-world biggrin.gif
iplaydead
QUOTE (psychopathicroc @ Oct 21 2009, 09:03 AM) *
Peter is going to risk his life so that Noah can have a moment? =/

We know the impact it had for the viewer but we are talking about common sense from the characters in story-world biggrin.gif



Exactly. As a viewer I fully appreciate that the writers needed a situation in which Jeremy would have to use his ability to heal, and I fully appreciate Noah's moment. However, as a viewer I also expect a balance to exist when my favorite character gets hit with the nerf bat. Peter is supposed to be smarter now that he is limited in power. Any action Peter would have taken, except teleporting into point blank range, would have been better than teleporting into point blank range.
psychopathicroc
Just chalk it up to Peter never being too skilled in such a complex ability - like teleporting into the bathroom lol.
DomesticatedPeach
QUOTE (iplaydead @ Oct 21 2009, 08:37 AM) *
It would not necessarily have made it worse. If Peter had stopped time, grabbed the shotgun, unloaded the ammo, and put the shotgun back in his hand, then Jeremy might have just assumed that he ran out of ammo. HRG would have gone up the stairs unarmed as before, and probably would have talked the kid down without anyone getting hurt.


Very true. This would have made more sense.
iplaydead
QUOTE (psychopathicroc @ Oct 21 2009, 10:19 AM) *
Just chalk it up to Peter never being too skilled in such a complex ability - like teleporting into the bathroom lol.


I suspect that the teleportation side of the power is much more complex than stopping time. I mean with the teleportation Peter has to hit a precise location as well as a precise time. With time stopping all Peter has to do is concentrate on time stopping.
Wadegarret
QUOTE (iplaydead @ Oct 20 2009, 03:51 PM) *
If they wanted to show the kid using his powers, Peter could have just stopped time, grabbed the shotgun, unloaded the shells, went to the den and grabbed a book, got a papercut, started time back, and had the kid heal his finger. That would have been infinitely smarter than teleporting in front of a distressed kid who is holding a shotgun.


lol...."Paper Cut"...LAME
Wadegarret
QUOTE (iplaydead @ Oct 21 2009, 08:37 AM) *
It would not necessarily have made it worse. If Peter had stopped time, grabbed the shotgun, unloaded the ammo, and put the shotgun back in his hand, then Jeremy might have just assumed that he ran out of ammo. HRG would have gone up the stairs unarmed as before, and probably would have talked the kid down without anyone getting hurt.



Alright, you got to stop thinking of Peter or any of the characters as tried and true heroes. They aren't always 3-5 steps ahead.They, like anyone else, just react to the situation: good, bad or otherwise. They got to learn----mind you a shotgun to the chest is a harsh learning curve, but I bet Pete won't make that mistake again.
Wadegarret
QUOTE (iplaydead @ Oct 21 2009, 09:07 AM) *
Yes that is exactly what happend. What I want to know is why Peter would not just stop time at the bottom of the stairs instead of teleporting closer to the shotgun and trying to stop time before getting shot. It just doesn't make any sense.


Cause H.R was taking care of it---things went wrong and Peter had to act, but he wasn't fast enough. His response, wasn't quicker than the shells.
iplaydead
QUOTE (Wadegarret @ Oct 21 2009, 03:37 PM) *
lol...."Paper Cut"...LAME


You realize of course that I was being facetious with the paper cut comment...right?
iplaydead
QUOTE (Wadegarret @ Oct 21 2009, 03:45 PM) *
Cause H.R was taking care of it---things went wrong and Peter had to act, but he wasn't fast enough. His response, wasn't quicker than the shells.



It seemed to me that HRG was indeed taking care of it, and that Peter startled Jeremy when he teleported in front of him. So why did Peter teleport in front of him again?
iplaydead
QUOTE (Wadegarret @ Oct 21 2009, 03:41 PM) *
Alright, you got to stop thinking of Peter or any of the characters as tried and true heroes. They aren't always 3-5 steps ahead.They, like anyone else, just react to the situation: good, bad or otherwise. They got to learn----mind you a shotgun to the chest is a harsh learning curve, but I bet Pete won't make that mistake again.


I don't expect him to be 3-5 steps ahead. I expect him to keep some distance from the lethal close quarters weapon, or find a way to disarm the kid or diffuse the situation. It doesn't take a chess player to know that startling a kid with a shotgun is a bad idea.
synch
QUOTE (iplaydead @ Oct 21 2009, 03:55 PM) *


Peter has a hero-complex. He has to save the day.

And, to be honest, he didn't have time to do something else. (He froze time instinctively- took him a second after doing so to realize what he'd done.)
DomesticatedPeach
I agree with the hero-complex, but I think he had enough time to freeze time. He could have at least emptied the shotgun shells.
synch
QUOTE (DomesticatedPeach @ Oct 21 2009, 09:34 PM) *


It wasn't a question about how much time he had.

Watch the scene again. He didn't freeze time deliberately. It was a complete instinctive reaction to the gun being fired- and it was just a second too late.
Hiro4Future
i look at the scene this way.....The writers needed a shocking, dramatic event to give Jeremy a chance to demo is healing mojo and to set HRG on his whole Redemption/Prof X path
iplaydead
QUOTE (synch @ Oct 21 2009, 06:55 PM) *
Peter has a hero-complex. He has to save the day.

And, to be honest, he didn't have time to do something else. (He froze time instinctively- took him a second after doing so to realize what he'd done.)



I tend to agree with you on most issues Synch, but I just can't on this one. I realize that Peter froze time instinctively, but he should not have needed to do it instinctively. He has had Space/Time Manipulation before, and he is fully aware of Hiro's ability to stop time. If he had enough time to hide behind a wall then he had enough time to stop time and diffuse the situation. He could have satisfied his hero complex in a smarter way.

I would have excused this if he was still the god he was before his nerf, and would have chalked it up to the Superman complex (let's face it, he doesn't always make the smartest choices either). This time however he is limited in power, and I expect a balance. I expect him to be smarter, and I have seen that from him so far until Tabula Rasa.
iplaydead
Like I said earlier, I do not expect Peter to be a chess player. I do not expect him to be 3-5 moves ahead. I just expect him to make smarter choices with his limitation.

A chess player would have stopped time before entering the house and scouted it. Everything on the outside of the house was dead, and the place smelled like death. There was clearly cause for alarm.

All I wanted was for Peter to stop time when he was hiding behind the wall after being shot at. I would have even settled for him standing in the corner and picking his nose. I would have settled for just about anything other than startling the kid who is holding a shotgun.

I understand that he might be rusty with the ability. I understand why he ended up in Noah's bathroom. I am sure teleportation is very complex, especially when you consider that he also had to land in a specific time, but he didn't even try to stop time in Jeremy's house. He didn't utilize his ability, his only ability, effectively.

In fact it could be argued that since teleportation is complex, that Peter actually chose to use the most complex part of his ability to get himself into more trouble, instead of using the simpler part of his ability to diffuse the situation, and be the hero.

Again though, I also understand that the writer's needed a situation in which Jeremy would have to use his healing power.
iplaydead
QUOTE (MaySone @ Oct 20 2009, 08:01 AM) *
Once again(this has already been mentioned in this very topic), Peter and HRG didn't want the kid who had no control over his powers to try and heal Hiro. Peter would have been a sure thing. That's why Peter took the power instead of teleporting the kid to the hospital. This is not "lazy writing" and it's not them wanting to keep the "Hiro is dying story going", it's Peter and HRG doing the smart thing.



Consider this scenario then. Peter teleports Jeremy and himself to the hospital, Peter copies Jeremy's power, Peter heals Hiro, Hiro sends Jeremy back home.

-Or-

Peter teleports Jeremy and himself to the hospital, Peter copies Jeremy's power, Peter heals Hiro, Peter copies Hiro's power, Peter teleports Jeremy back home, or teleports himself and Jeremy back, and copies Jeremy's power, and then takes a plane back.

Peter would not even have to take a plane back in the last scenario if Hiro comes with him and teleports him back to the hospital.

In either of those scenarios, Hiro would have been healed, and Jeremy would not have touched anyone except Peter.
iplaydead
QUOTE (MaySone @ Oct 22 2009, 10:25 AM) *
Consider this scenario

Peter copies Jeremy's power and takes a plane back to New York.

Oh wait! That's wrong because that's what actually happened and there is always a more efficient way of doing things in which the character should have thought about right away.(Because in life, we never do it wrong, we always do things right.) We're all master tacticians, so we should expect the characters to be written that way.

Peter should have used his phasing power(or teleportation), he should have read Adam's mind and he should have froze time and teleported himself, Jeremy and Noah to New York.


In life we have to take planes to cross the country because we don't have the ability to just teleport there.

Again though, I would not be so hard on this episode if it were not for the fact that Peter is limited to one power now, so I expect him to be balanced by smarter choices. If he is going to have just one ability, then he should at least use it effectively.
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