I'm really liking the Samuel character and the carnival people. The only other villain I thought was good besides Sylar was Adam. I think Robert Knepper is doing a great job and is a very good addition to the cast. What do you guys think?

I like Samuel too, agree the actor is doing a brilliant job. I hope we get more into what his evil idea is. I also liked Adam, but they killed him off in a lame way. Hopefully they won't kill Samuel like that, better give him a good ending.

he's lame. about as scary as a stuffed animal.

the nightmare man, sylar in season 1, even the puppeteer, these guys were great villains...samuel is just...there. creates no sense of menace at all to me. and the thing with reading the ink on the girl's back is lame too (and comes off like an excuse to show some skin/unnecessary "nudity" on behalf of the poorly written female character who is read off of)

Maury Parkman was...a great villain?

Samuel is in my eyes the best villian since Sylar. He's very creepy and mysterious, manipulative and determined. The only other villian (besides Sylar) that I actually felt threatened by was Arthur but that writing was terrible and the volume was garbage. He could have been a good villian but he was too powerful to be interesting, IMO. Besides, ever since we first saw his potential we all knew "Haitian + Gun Shot - volume finale"

Idk how they're gunna overcome Sammy and his Carnie folk. I don't even know what their about to do - and that's what I like. An unkown threat mysteriously lurking, planning and manipulating events to do their will. Somewhat reminiscent of Sylar in S1 when he was the shadowy figure in a trench coat with a baseball cap.

So yes, Knepper was fiendishly evil on Prison Break and he brings that know-it-all cockiness back to another character and I think it fits better than PB and J

If they hadn't told us he was this season's villian, would we even know he's a villian at this point? It just doesn't seem like we know enough about his motives to tell. Sure he doesn't mind killing a guy to get what he wants but the same could be said for Tracy, HRG, Nathan, etc.

I do like the character, but is seems its more that he has a different perspective on things than it does that he's evil. That makes it difficult to compare him to some of the others.

sure he doesnt mind killing a guy to get what he wants, but he leveled an entire mansion filled with people simply because the lady that answered the door wouldnt let him look around. there's that, coupled with the fact that he is a master-manipulator - he is pulling the strings of many different characters and situations on the show - Edgar, Sylar, Lydia, etc. He is using the carnival as somewhat of a recruiting station for people with abilities, but he also uses those people to his own ends.
he is ruthless, devious, scheming, intelligent, charismatic, powerful, vengeful, etc. ---all the makings of a good villain....and we still really have no idea what he is up to.
so yes, i am convinced he is not a good guy.

Well yeah, but besides that?

Other than that house leveling (which I did forget about) how much of what you listed could also be said about Angela Petrelli? I think every bit of it.

My point wasn't to paint him as a good guy, just comparatively speaking I don't know that he's evil (certainly the house indicates he's got a short temper). Angela works under the concept of 'the greater good'. Until we know Samual's motives I think the verdict would still be out on him...other than its been stated he's a villian.

Oh this gut is a great villain no doubt! I never watched prison break, so I can't comment on the potential that Knepper brings of that character to this character. I have seen though that Samuel really knows how to manipulate and assimilate at his will with anyone to fulfill his means. I think these are the top trademarks of a great villain. His plan must be something very big that is yet to be seen.

Awesome villain.

He is an awesome villain.

He's a definite villain, and I didn't need anything to tell me that.

Watch what he does. He's like a clean Charles Manson. The carnival is a definite cult, complete with a baptism ceremony when you become "family."
He's running it under the Magneto Philosophy- There are two kind of people; Special and Normal. And the Specials deserve to rule because they have the power.

Hey, you don't even know what his whole evil scheme is yet.

Actually him and Sylar compliment each other as villains very nicely, this season is turning out to be great.

I said yes.

Because he has an air of mystique about him. You know he is just showing the tip of the iceberg. I love how he manipulates and rationalizes. He is a true puppet master. No strings needed.

I agree with one of the above posts. If we didnt already know he was supposed to be a villain, he wouldnt seem all that bad.

He is acting just as Angela has in the past, or the company, or HRG, or Tracy strauss, etc. Morally gray perhaps?

Anyhow, his lack of a super strong ability like sylar /arthur make him, in my mind, a much better villain. Remember Linderman? The guy had a HEALING power, yet he was a main villain early on. Excellent writing, much better than just sticking in an uber powerful villain in

I could not have said it better myself. Synch's is spot on.

I agree with the Magneto comparison, I made the same point in the episode critisism thread. Still, how is what Samual is doing so different than Angela's actions?

Is Angela a villian too? Most don't believe she is even though she's lied and manipulated, abandonded her sister in danger, attempted to kill her husband, fead Bridget to Sylar, inprisoned inocent people, stolen socks, employed hitmen, etc.

If Angela isn't a villian, why is Samual?

Not a strong ability? He has absolute control over the earth. That makes him one of the most dangerous Specials to walk the planet right now.

And I didn't know he was supposed to be a villain. I figured it out from what we saw of him on-screen. Kind of like we did with Linderman.

His cult, the carnival, is obviously being groomed for something major. Why else would he want Sylar? Note: He made it clear that he doesn't want Gabriel Gray, or Nathan, or any other version. He wants Sylar. Remember "build a better Sylar"? He wants a killer of Sylar's strength under his complete control.

That's not Morally Grey. That's evil.

And Angela isn't Morally Grey either. Or, at least, she hasn't been. She's been working a darker plan since S1. (She was right in line with Linderman's goal, although Arthur wanted to go a bit further than she was comfortable with.)

I don't know which "most" you're referring to. I don't think I've spoken with anyone who has thought she was anything else.

I like him as a villain, charismatic, manipulative and very powerful

what more do you want in a villain

I think he's a good villain;your supposed to hate the villains and I already really dont like him.

I think he's a decent villain, especially because in classic Heroes pattern, we dont know how evil he or his motives are yet. Heroes often has a yin-yang type of thing going where you hate one side then 3 weeks later you understand the side you hated a few weeks before, then you end up hating them again. lol The evil has that dab of good and the good has that dab of evil.

Remember when we thought HRG was a baddie back in the day, then he walks through the door and he was Claires father? Great stuff

I like him alot, and he's a good bad guy, very good, but don't think he's a villain yet...soon, but not yet.

Villian does not = Evil
It has always been said that the ends justify the means and that even bad things are done with good intentions. Is he a villian? Oh yes. Is he evil? Now that is a rather different and even harder question to answer.

Take this for an example
Lex Luthor is a villian, but he is not evil. However his point of view, and his goals conflict with the one that people do consider a hero.

Think about "the company" for a minute, now their intentions were good but their methods could be questioned. Were they villians? Evil? Or both?
Or are they all out for what they feel is the "greater" good?

His intention is to rearrange the world- with himself and his "family" at the top, and others with powers a little below them, and normals all the way at the bottom.

Like I mentioned elsewhere, he's Grindelwald. (I know there are some HP fans who will recognize the reference- even if I butchered the name.) He's covering his personal, and thoroughly evil, agenda under the cloak of "for the common good." What he really wants is power. He wants to rule a world-wide empire with himself enthroned, and all Specials subject to him. And all normals essentially enslaved.

Well, it isnt untypical for the villain to want to rearrange things to favor themself and their followers. And personally I feel he's proabably going for the same thing. But this is just a theory you've inferred correct? Because you rarely use phrases such as "I think", "I feel", "I believe", "Maybe", "It could be a possiblity". I mean, your obviously stating what you think but it changes the connotation when you seem to state things as factual. Which is something you do a lot and I try not to argue about it but i cant resist it. And dont act like you dont know you get people worked up.

Its like everybody is sitting around playing a game of poker and you join, pull out a separate deck of cards from your pocket, casually pick out 4 aces and a joker, lay your hand down and proudly insist its a fact that you have won the game(anybody from 4chan has just lost the game ignore this bit).

Anyway, sounds like he might be planning something like that though. Major villain taking over the world, certainly a pretty safe and redundant formula. Grindelwald? Maybe. But if you're going down that path I'd say Magneto. Because Magneto was persecuted and I get the feeling Samuel was as well. In a matter of speaking, I think it might end up being a case of the "normals" making him this way. I felt bad for him when he went to visit his old house.

Samuel us a great villain! He has his own idealogical temperament by which he judges and examines everybody else. Like any good sociopath he doesn't fit in with society, so he has to "fix" society to fit him! He's looking to be a very complex, very smart villian who actually has "goals" or "plans" for his family. It's interesting to watch him lead his fellow "anarchists" (who think they are just part of a family, lol) to mold the world around them.

I based it on what he was talking about last Monday. I can't remember the exactly dialogue, but what he said made it clear he was going the Magneto route. (Those with Power should rule those who don't.)

I remember he said something a couple weeks ago that made me start thinking the Grindelwald- "for the greater good"- route was one he was considering as well.

Although, to be fair, the only difference in Grindelwald and Magneto is terminology and universe. (Magneto thought mutants, specifically powerful ones, should rule the world as they were obviously superior. Grindelwald thought the same thing about wizards.)

Oh my God. We agree on something! I think the Charles Manson comparison is right on.

"The Trick to villains...." Robert Knepper said in an interview, "is to keep them CHARMING." I'd agree. Knepper clearly has played Sammy the right way. First of all, despite the fact that he's being downright Machiavellan in his recruitment procedures, he may really think the Heroes "belong" in Sullivan Bros Carnival. It's his get-want-you-want-at-all-costs, Ben Linus - style manipulations to get there, behavior that is evil.

We now know that a lot of the crap being thrown on the daily lives of the Heroes is to manipulate them into joining Sullivan Bros not just wlliningly, but EAGERLY. And Sam has fewer morals than Classic Sylar about killing people. Perhaps most diabolical of all, he doesn't 'tell' people to kill, but seems completely unsurprised when they do....

vil·lain (vĭl'ən) n.
1.A wicked or evil person; a scoundrel.

People like you honestly terrify me.

What does it take to be considered evil?

Murder?
Torture?
Plotting to take over the universe?
Actually taking over the universe?


The Company was evil by the time we encountered it.

Linderman was evil.

Lex Luthor is undeniably evil.

Samuel es un bandido magnifico, y el agente hace un trabajo impresionante!!

vil·lain (vĭl'ən) n.

1. A wicked or evil person; a scoundrel.

2. A dramatic or fictional character who is typically at odds with the hero.

hero villian anti-hero what ever he considers himself he is great at it
that is just my opinion after the latest episode

Me too.

Yes he is, he emanates creepiness and also represents everything a true villain should be. In that they believe through their actions they are doing the right thing that benefits not only them but others.

The actor playing him is doing a very good job.

I am just HOPING that he does not get Sylar'd... if he ends up getting Sylar'd, that'll be it for me.

I agree. The actor is phenominal.
I'd classify him as an anti-hero. I haven't seen him doing anything villianous yet, at least not in comparison to other characters on the show consistently aligned with the shows heroes.

Certainly does have a mean streak though, ******* him off...not a good idea.

It's all a matter of perspective, and don't be ignorant enough to tell anybody otherwise. One persons hero could very well be another persons villian and vis versa.
As an American, I look at what people have done to this counrty as acts of terror and evil. But those people, and the people they feel they are doing it for, see them as heroes.

And no Lex Luthor is not evil. He is charicterized as a human that sees his races potential dieing at the hands of what he considers to be an alien threat.

vil·lain (vĭl'ən) n.

1. A wicked or evil person; a scoundrel.

2. A dramatic or fictional character who is typically at odds with the hero.

So if we don't know enough about Samual's motives to classify him as evil and he hasn't been at odds with any of the shows heroes, can we accurately call him a villian?

He is a very good villain, now, if only we could move on from Sylar.

Kinda early to decide for sure,But so far Yes I think he's f'n awesome!.

I think many of the characters have walked the villain/hero tight rope. Angela has walked it "darker" than most.
I agree we don't know Samuel's motives entirely and Angela could darker still, even joining Samuel's movement. (which gives off a creepy dark vibe, but as I said is not fully known)

That's crap, and anyone with any semblance of humanity knows it.

What you're saying is that I can do anything I want to, and nobody has a right to judge me, so long as it serves my personal view of what serves the greater good.

I can murder you because I feel you deserve it, and nobody has any right to judge me.

Evil is not relative. It is not a matter of perspective.

It's all about motive, and I'm glad someone else made the Magneto comparison because I thought about it as well and he is one of the best well-motivated (if radical and twisted) villains there is.

Sylar - wants more power, until he loses total focus and direction and doesn't know what he wants, if he weren't so complex, though, the motive for 'more power' would get boring
Linderman - had a radical (nigh-genocidal) view to change the world, with just enough self-interest thrown in that we enjoyed watching him die!
Adam - one of the oldest motives, revenge, which made him fun to watch but also short-lived
Arthur - also wanted more power, but also money, and to give the world superpowers. I was never really convinced about his plan, or his attachment to it, which was not bad acting but poor writing at the time.
Danko - grim determination to get his job done and eradicate a threat with his cold efficiency

Samuel, well, we don't know a lot about his motives, other than his sense of kinship and responsibility. Part of me is hoping he is bent on global domination, and the other part of me hopes he is content to just shelter wayward supers. I just hope they are going somewhere specific, because I am sick of vaguely laid out plots with some tenuous connection to a future threat that doesn't manifest.

I wasnt too sure at first but after watching the new episdoe and the last scene where he destroys the ******* redneck piggy department, i've decided he is a-ok in my book. I'm not sure if I even consider him a villian yet.

Agreed.