Totally agree with you here

season 1 nathan and nikki that was a pretty explicit scene that was ok with you?

Syler cutting off top of peoples skulls is ok for your kids to see?

Syler cutting of claires skull and seeing the brain is ok for your family?

its funny that you say your kids dont need to see this but there have been much worse stuff shown then the kiss between C + G, plenty of gory scenes people murdered, Peter shown being shot and dieing or Jeremy (although you dont see it happen) being murdered and you see his bloody dead body this is ok for you kids to see but a mild gay kiss it to much?

Its not like they just shoved the very mild gay kiss on us, since gretchen 1st appeared its was pretty much 99 pct certain eventual a kiss would occur so how was this a suprise?

Uhm aren't Gay people part of the general population?

I never read anywhere that Heroes would never have Gay content.

Syler was never meant to make it past season 1 (fact) but here he still is.

Its not said anywhere that Claire is gay atm she is just confused like lots of girls her age can be.

Why should it matter if claire was shown to be straight in earlier seasons? people change as they gow older and claire could just be confusing friendship for something else because its been so long since she had a close friend.

When we 1st meet Noah he is shown as a cold guy with no emotions but over the season you can see he is almost complete opposite of what he was in season 1 is this not the same as claire changing?

Tracy has changed so much since we 1st saw her yet i dont see you talking about that, she is not the same character she waswhen she 1st appeared.
Just funny how people get upset about some characters changing but dont seem to mind others doing exactly the same.

Uhm did we see the same episode because i remember claire looking very stunned and the sorority girls charging in the room, didn't really give claire a chance to react did it?

It does just seem to me that its because its a gay kiss people get so upset, cant help thinking if it was a boy kissing claire in exactly the same way we wouldn;t be hearing all these people crying over it.

Wow... I wanted to join some new Heroes forums, but looks like this one is quite hateful... I'm really shocked at some comments... I won't go as far as using the word that would describe what I've read, but for some, I'm really thinking it!

That makes me even happier that they did those in Heroes! 'looks like some mentality still needs to be changed, and good presentation of homosexual relationships in media is a way to do so!

Personnally, I love this! They are really cute and sweet together and have strong chemistry! The ''Strange Attractors'' episode showed that pretty well! I'm just afraid that kind of homophobic comments (there, I said it) won't give the writers cold feet and that they'll continue along with it!

Also, Gretchen is absolutely awesome as a new character, my favorite new one! She's funny and sarcastic, self-aware too... Like they said, Claire and Gretchen are quite opposites! And opposite attracts! As for Claire, well, it's not OOC at all, I saw this coming from last season! Not to mention she doesn't even know who she is, she never had the time to figure herself out, they made that fact pretty clear in the show since Season 1. She could be a lot of thing, and bisexual, or even lesbian, is not impossible! (actually, considering her excuse for rejecting Gretchy is not ''I'm not into girls'', I'd also say it's totally possible!).

I hope they'll continue on with that storyline, the worst thing that could happen is that they stop in the middle of the process because some of those hateful comments made them want to stop!

They are cute together, the best relationship Claire ever had, and 2nd best of the whole show, beaten only by Hiro and Charlie (but those were exceptionnally sweet together! Nothing'll beat them! ).

just out of curiosity how is a girl who's been struggling with her life choices from day 1 kissing another girl who is the only non family member close to her more innapropriate than self serving psychopath cutting skulls open or self hating teenager killing his parents in a hissy fit?heros is not an all ages show and if you think homosexuality is the only thing that needs to be censored for your daughters there's some priority issues there in my oppinion

I have a feeling millions of people would disagree with you on this point. There is a HUGE difference. Was it right to air it? I'm not sure.

You're right, they would think so. And as I said, this is actually the problem!

Is there a difference between a girl and a guy kissing vs two guys or two girls kissing? Yes there is: One of the protagonist is of different gender. Any other difference? Nope, nothing else. And this is not such a huge difference!

Like I said, mentality needs to be changed! (assuming this relationship goes all the way) This Claire and Gretchen thing, it's just two person who loves each other! So what if they are two girls? It might be somewhat unusual love compared to what we're used to see, but it's love nevertheless.

I read spoilers about Claire becoming a lesbian months before the season even started. In the same article It said that one of the reason's they were going this route was because the male audience hated seeing Claire with a boyfriend. Remember Wes? It does make sense. Anyway I don't see the big deal about it. I like Gretchen and I can't say the same about any of Claire's past love interests. I'm totally fine with Claire being bi, lesbian, or straight.

I'm not taking sides I just think its hypocritical that one sides opinion is accepted as "right" but when the other opinion chimes in then they are "wrong." If we are supposed to be all-accepting of things then what is wrong with millions of people having a problem with this?

Well, here's the thing, I have no problem with people not liking it because they think it's OOC for Claire or they don't like Gretchen, etc. I might even accept those who use the ''rating ploy'' argument to validate their view (even if it's kinda a logical fallacy, as it has nothing to do with the storyline). At least it stays in the subjective opinion of quality, and I have no problem with that. Some like it, some dislike it, it's ok.

What I have a problem with is people who have bad views of this for homophobic reasons. It happens, apparently, I even saw a few righ here, on this topic, which shocked me and push me into writing my own view. This bugs me a lot because we make a huge leap from subjective opinion of storyline quality to a much least subjective view of moral issues. I won't go further than that, because this has to stay a topic about Claire and Gretchen, not a topic on ethical and moral issues. But it can't be avoided, some people's comment seems to be that it's ''innacceptable'' to see two girls having romantic feelings for each other, in a fiction. So of course, I can't just shut my mouth, while I see people still having issues with homosexuality in 2009!

But I'll shut up now! Having this serious discussion, like I said, seems unavoidable, but this is also not the place, so let's minimize it, and go back to the main topic, which is the specific case of Claire and Gretchen! I'll do that with a question: Independantly of weither you like it or not (so no ''I hope so'' or ''I hope not'' for answers! ), do you think that Claire and Gretchen's friendship will indeed develop into a romance?

I think it will. Claire's excuse for not going for Gretchen was ''I don't want to mess up our friendship''. Name me one show where a character gived that answer to another and didn't ended up with that same character some times later!

I agree, and as others have said, there's been far worse things shown before this and to even compare the two is silly.


But....for the same reason I wouldn't like it any other show: pick a side of the fence and swing, don't bobble back and forth cause your not sure. A straight person would say "sorry, not into that---no offense" someone who isn't would say "hey, this is kinda nice" LOL.

So, they got to choose; maybe not yet, but soon and yes, it could go anywhich way cause some people don't find themselves into very later in life and Claire is still very much a kid.

I do have to say I didn't see this coming, but maybe they are trying to change her up---it wouldn't be the worst thing done to a character's motivation so far, but they got to make it good. Also, as long as her relationship in the show is well written, I don't care

Lets get this show back and running and stop talking about something so stupid as who is Claire kissing now and why.

You said alot, and I agree with what you're saying, but when you said this I thought back to the scene in V: For Vendeta, and the kiss between the two women in the field.....ahhhhhhhhhhhhh what a great scene; and not cause they were women, but because of the power behind the story. They could've been two men or a man and a woman and it would've been just as great and perfect.



----"All hail God Alan Moore" who by-the-by doen't like Tv or Movies and for many of the reasons posted all over this site.

Just had to say that.

To all of you defending "the kiss", first of all, not appreciating homosexual content on a tv show is not indicative or synonymous with being homophobic so stop throwing that phrase around. And secondly, since you all wanna be technical and accepting of homosexual lifestyles, that scene was indeed more extreme than any of the heterosexual content...why? Because all the other scenes involving sex were with 2 consenting adults. Gretchen walked up to Claire and kissed her on the mouth without asking or any type of warning, agreement or indication that Claire wanted her to do so. She basically pushed her sexuality and forced herself onto Claire. That was by definition sexual harassment in any college, work place, or professional establishment. What if it were a grown man that did this to your daughter (to those of you defending this that have daughters). What if it were a grown man that did this to your son (or YOU for that matter)? Would all you supporters think it was "cute" and "ok" then...?? If not then guess what? You are just as hypocritical and "homophobic" as everyone else...

And yes, I liked the scene when it happened. If I knew they were gonna ride it out then I would not have liked it as much...as a matter of fact, I am more and more disgusted and offended with it the more and more I think about it...

Okay so let me get this straight. You liked the scene when it happened but the more you think about it you don't? Its a freakin t.v. show.. get over it!! I liked the scene and hope to see more of Claire and Gretchen making out. Hopefully they will take it to the next level. Will that **** you off even more? It's great when a t.v. show can **** people off like this has.

I think I see what he's saying... at first he liked it for the obvious reasons... but as they proceeded to drag on the plot, obviously and purposefully keeping the question hanging over them, getting interrupted at every crucial juncture, making it look like it could be one way but keeping it open to the other... just seems like a cheap plot stunt the longer it drags out.


Homophobe is a bad word, because it implies fear. Dislike and fear are not the same.

Why can someone have the opinion that it is okay, and that must be respected, but if someone has the opposite opinion, and for whatever reason, does not personal like it (not fear it, just a personal dislike), which is an opinion just as valid to that person as another person's opinion is to them - that is a double standard.

Ummm, its only harassment if Claire minds it, which doesn't mean she has to like it----just that she's not bothered by it, able to move on without making a big deal of it; cause, well, it was really just the "first move"

When a guy leans in to kiss a girl, or a girl to guy, or a guy to guy or girl to girl, its the "first move" He (the guy kissing the girl) is not harassing her, he's going for the kiss first---0if she doesn't like it, bothered by it and he keeps doing it, then its harassment.

Ok, I'll bite: I'd act like an adult, which is what you should be by the time your reach college, and I'd tell the person "Not for me, but thanks" I wouldn't as someone else said, "punch Gretchen in the mouth" Cause ya, we are all taught not to hit and that includes over getting kissed by someone way may not want to----although a woman could hit a man and that's fine though *Im not saying it is, its just excepted*

Um, actually Wade you are wrong...sexual harassment describes the action, not how it is perceived by the victim. That means that any type of sexual conduct in a professional institution constitutes itself as sexual harassment. If I were to walk up to a woman at my job and grope her, it is sexual harassment regardless of whether she wanted me to or not. In fact any observer of such an act can be considered a victim regardless of how the recipient responds. What Gretchen did was indeed sexual harassment and is grounds for immediate dismissal in some establishments...and you are absolutely correct samael, I would definitely be more and more offended if this were to continue. I am sick and tired of being forced to watch homosexual content which has now flooded our media as of late. I am heterosexual but I have never forced my preferences on anybody...but lately everywhere I go there is some kind of homosexual message everywhere...it's sickening not because of what it is but because it is being forced on the general hetero public...

Thank you Pyramyd. You said more eloquently what I wanted to say in my previous posts. I couldn’t agree with you more. I was just way to irritated to write more clearly at the time. Claire was assaulted by Gretchen. If a guy lunged at her and planted an unsolicited kiss on her I would expect her to defend herself. I would expect nothing less from Claire when the same thing happens with a girl. The fact that they chose to do this with a girl adds a whole other level of political issues. It has nothing to do with being “homophobic”. People need to stop throwing that word around. I don’t care what you do in your personal life. I just don’t want it thrown in my face, in my living room, when I am trying to watch T.V. with my kids. I’m just tired of getting someone else’s value system forced upon me. It seems like Hollywood is trying to include at least some homosexual content in every primetime television show these days. Are they trying to make some political statement or are they just trying desensitize people to this stuff? I don’t know. All I do know is that I am tired of it.

Interesting, why aren't you complaining about the Sylar taking over Matt's body to have sex with Janice incident? Sylar's consciousness took over Matt's body and sexually harassed Janice, right? Even though Sylar did it through Matt's body, he still asserted his will over an unknowing Janice. That surely can be twisted into sexual harassment and just as worthy, if not more so, of your complaints.

Gretchen just gave Claire a kiss. How many times have we seen a boy do this to a girl in movies or other tv shows? A lot. Movies often depict the shy boy finally getting over his shyness by kissing the girl, and often times she is not expecting it.

Nobody is forcing a homosexual lifestyle on anybody. When Season 2 took us to feudal Japan, they weren't forcing Japanese history or lifestyle on us. When Sylar kills someone they aren't forcing a murderous lifestyle on us. The Claire/Gretchen storyline is not forcing homosexuality on anybody, it is just presenting a different lifestyle.

Rather you agree with homosexuality or not, you have to admit that they exist. And if they exist in the real world then why shouldn't they exist in a show that attempts to present ordinary people with extraordinary abilities?

Wow, so I guess the "serious moral discussion" is unavoidable, right...

Anyway, Vardel's point out basically what I'm saying! I get if people don't like the Claire+Gretchen relationship for plot reasons and all. I'd disagree with you, but I won't see a moral issue with your opinion, and wouldn't mind at all. However, the argument that seems to appear again and again now is "we don't want to see that on our T.V. show". That, enters in the homophobic category!

Homophoby is described as fear or hatred of homosexuality. And such, hating an homosexual relationship in a T.V. show because it is an homosexual relationship, it falls into this category!

As for it being harassment, I'd disagree... Considering that Claire was accusing her of killing any and all, I'm sure in Gretchen's mind she just thought that "well, in comparison, me having a crush on her isn't that bad", so she went for it. It might have been impulsive, sure, but not "harrasing" at all.

this public agenda coment is getting more frustrating to me than the "homophobic" comment is getting to all the ignorant people saying it's not suitable for prime time.I'm tired if this arguement getting played out as long as it has for peoples moral views on sexuality so here are the FACTS

Claire has been confused about who she is from the begining of s1

Claire is a strong independant girl who couldve attacked Gretchen if she felt sexually assaulted;and didn't

gays regardless of being a majority or minority are still part of the population and there for have a right to be on primetime tv especially on a show that shows murder on a frequent basis

with those facts aside here's my opinion.
I hated Gretchen at first because I thought she was a pour attempt at adding new characters to s4 but after seeing how she developed as a character I think she needs to stay at least for awhile.I don't care if Claire ends up having a romantic relationship or not but Gretchen is the only non family character Claire has close to her right now and that helps keep her story going.and for all the people who see this as morraly unacceptable or a political agenda to get people to accept gays can watch another show because I'm 100% sure there's enough people who can look past thier personal opinions to enjoy the well writen show and can keep the seires going.and to all the people who see the current developements as bein ooc for Claire your ignorance amazes me.Claire has been the self confused girl trying to find her place in life since the very first episode of heroes!

So ManiaK, who are you to have the audacity to call somebody ignorant? Did I insult anyone in my comments? No, I merely stated my opinion which I have every right to do. Your opinion is that it is well written and mine is that it is not. My opinion is that it is offensive to MY particular set of morals (which I have not once tried to push on anybody else), and that it is a ratings stunt as well as a plot to push homosexual acceptance. Your opinion is the opposite of mine. So how dare you call me ignorant because I have a different thought pattern than you do...I do not care if Claire felt assaulted or not. It was still harassment. If the term sexual harassment confuses anyone out there then go look it up before you say that it wasn't. BTW, the word ignorant refers to someone who has a lack of knowledge or understanding. So your comment, which I presume to be an implication that Gretchen did not sexually harass Claire was clearly a true testament to ignorance considering the fact that you are unaware of what sexual harassment is. And lastly, how can you insult me for stating my personal opinion and then turn right around and state your opinion? Especially when you have no comprehension of what I was saying in the first place. That action defines an ignorant hypocrite.

I don't think this show is for you then. I feel this show tries to insert diversity whenever possible. Acting like gay people don't exist or shouldn't be dramatized on TV is a little narrow sighted. I actually agree that there always seem to be a token gay in shows now but they have been doing this for years. They wouldn't even let blacks on TV for awhile and when they did they were servants or groundskeepers.

I'm sure someone many years ago(and some still do) complain that they have to keep seeing these black people all over the place. Because I'm sure you don't have anything against black people but "[You] just don’t want it thrown in [your] face, in my living room, when I am trying to watch T.V. with my kids. I’m just tired of getting someone else’s value system forced upon me. It seems like Hollywood is trying to include at least some [black person]in every primetime television show these days. Are they trying to make some political statement or are they just trying desensitize people to this stuff? I don’t know. All I do know is that I am tired of it."

Which makes me feel like if you are not used to it and don't relate to these people then Hollywood is shoving something down your throat not trying to show how diverse this country really is. Let's take that show 'Friends' for example. Never liked it simply because I find it hard to believe that 5 friends in NEW YORK have no ethic friends at all. NONE. In New York? Not realistic. This is why I've been in love with Heroes since V1. Diversity. Not, we all have to fit into 'this' mold. The kiss itself didn't bother me. I hope they figure out which way they are going to go with this becasue waffling only makes it seem like it was a ploy instead of character development.

My point is unless that person doesn't like what your doing, getting introuble for it isn't going to happen.

I do suppose your right, if someone were to see it happen, and was bothered by it, the two people invovled could get in trouble: thats the problem with uptight people, just my opinion. I know its not P.C, but I don't care.

To something else you said, I just have to say:
Ofcourse you never forced your preference on anyone----you don't have to, society does it for you and you don't see it cause you agree.

You do realize that people who think differently then you get your value system forced upon them daily...but I guess you don't see that as a problem?

Very nicely said.

I love talking to people like you(not sarcastic).because I try not to be a hard headed person.if I'm wrong I will admit it.and people like you make me question myself about what I said why I said it and how much justification it holds.when I stated the facts that was the only time I said I was stating facts.everything else I said was my opinion just as everything u said in response to me was yours.so in the future I will make sure it is more apperent that it's my opinion and not fact.I am not going to get worked up over the harassment arguement because it's irrelevant to me considering Claire didn't react negatively twards it and no one else was around them to b offended by it.what I am going to get worked up over is this "shoving opinions down throats" issue.with public tv opinions are goin to be in your face weather you agree with them morally or not.if you personally find it offensive there are plenty other prime time shows to watch.I was wrong to imply others opinions are less valid then mine I was simply trying to say was that I think it's odd that people are getting so worked up about a show like heroes showing I diverse view point.they bring up controversial topics such as murder religion sex or race just about every episode.I personally don't agree with alot of topics on heroes but I continue watching and enjoying the show based on my acceptance of the fact that this is a show that expresses all view points not just my own and that makes it alot more like life.they could easily sugar coat things so people don't get offended but then it wouldn't b heroes it would unrelatible and in my opinion significantly less enjoyable.it gets me thinking just like this convorsation.which is why I watch the show and reply to forums.

Claire and Gretchen as a couple would be so cute. I don't care if it's for the ratings or not.. I think it's about time that Heroes touched on this.

Here is my one beef with this.... After all these seasons, the characters on this show should know who they are by now. Every season, some one does a 360. Sylar is bad... then good... then bad... then good... Peter is a hero, Peter is a Villian, Peter afraid, Peter is courageous. Hiro loves his power, Hiro is scared of his Power, Hiro is confident of his power. Nathan is alive, Nathan dies, Nathan is Alive, Nathan is Sylar....

I hope they don't do the same thing here. Make a choice, stand by it. Once a character has been established, stay true to the character.

I have been a loyal fan of 'Heroes' since episode 1. It has always had very clear lines regarding good and evil, right and wrong. I have never had any problems recommending this show to family or friends.

Until now. If the story continues with the (quite frankly) disgusting lesbian angle, I and at least 10 of my friends and family who watch regularly will abandon the show. We have all had some very passionate discussions and are dedicated to booting this show to the curb if it continues down the road of sexual deviancy. Sure, there are only 11 of us. But how many '11s' are out there?

This kind of sexual crap doesn't need to be in 'Heroes'. It has managed to be an extremely good series this long without sexual gimmicks, which is one of the REFRESHING things about it. Please stop, now.

Why is it disgusting, we have had characters kissing and having strong sexual scenes before and you didn't mind them.

You have no problem with syler using matts body to have sex with his wife?

Nikki straddling nathan in season 1 was ok with you?

There are many more examples and its just so funny you haven't considered any of those before when it comes to sexual crap or gimmicks but bring on a few second kiss between same sex and you cant handle it.

By gimmicks i am guessing you mean for ratings, well correct me if i am wrong but isn't that what every story line is for? to get ratings?

If you and your friends are so afraid of a gay scene then maybe you should never leave the house again in case you go somewhere and see this apparently disgusting act in real life because if it upsets you so much on a tv show then seeing it in real life will proberly give you a heart attack or something

I agree with previous posters that Heroes is not for you, Pyramyd. I've seen countless shows with heterosexual kissing scenes (Friends, Star Trek, CSI, etc.) where the character doing the kissing doesn't know if the character receiving the kiss likes him or her. It might be a long time since you were university/college age, but young people at that age get passionate crushes and kiss each other. Perhaps when you were that age, you didn't spend time with people who were pushing their limits and trying things out. The Claire & Gretchen friendship/relationship is an aspect of what that stage of life is like for thousands of people.

I've said it before and I'll say it again... it amazes me where a lot of folks will draw the line in terms of what they'll let their kid watch and what they won't let their kid watch. You'll let them see all the blood and gore and heterosexual encounters that this show has produced over the years, but one short kiss on the lips between two women is crossing the line? I guess I just don't see the logic there. I don't wish to mock anyone's beliefs, so I hope nobody takes what I'm saying in that way, but it seems to me that there are worse things for kids to see than two people of the same sex sharing a kiss on the mouth for a few seconds and it's puzzling to me that people are more disgusted by that than some of the other things being depicted on this show. Someone is going to have to explain it to me, because I just don't get it.

One reason I view very little tv these days is because I don't like to watch explicit sex scenes. I don't want to watch a man and woman humping each other in bed. I don't want to watch homosexual relationships either. I started watching Heroes because it was similar (in some ways) to XMen. People with special powers were trying to save the world. Wow! Now, several season later, like so many other shows that run out of ideas, they are using sex to maintain ratings. However, sex is a 2-edge sword. You might gain some viewers but you will also lose some as well.

Yes, this is a moral issue that I have. If you don't have the same issue, then keep watching. I won't.

The word "worse" is used to compare bad things. Therefore I conclude that you agree with me that sex on tv is bad.




You are comparing sex to excessive violence and implying that both are bad. Again, I concur. But on re-reading this comment, perhaps I missed the point? Perhaps you are saying that excessive violence and heterosexual encounters are bad but homosexual encounters are good? If that is what you meant then I definitely don't agree!

HAHA sorry but your so childish

You realise you cant reply or defend what you have stated to this post so you try the only thing your mind is capable off and mock it and twist it to make it sound like he is agreeing to you, you really do need to grow up a bit.

What he is saying is that you let your kids watch syler cut open peoples heads and let them see same sex sexual scenes and scenes like Matt (actual syler) having a steamy embrace with matts wife but you dont seem to mind this and let them see it, when it comes to a 1-2 sec kiss between 2 woman then its crossing some homophobic line you seem to have its so pathetic to have this mind set.

Did you forget that in Season 1 Nicki was a single mom who worked as a stripper? And in that same season Nicki straddled Nathan and Nathan had an affair with her. If you don't want to watch a show with explicit sex scenes then why did you watch Heroes past season 1?

So...let me make sure I have this straight...they had Nikki stripping on the internet and that was fine, Tracey screwing her way up the political ladder and that was fine, but they have 2 girls kissing and THAT is what pushes you over that edge?? Are you kidding me right now? Wake up and smell the coffee, my friend. This is the year 2009 almost 2010 and homosexuality is real and it's out there! Trying to keep children ignorant of it is simply doing them a disservice.

/Rant

I admire bobo's attempt at spinning my words. It failed miserably, but I admire the attempt just the same.

Look, people can stop watching the show or stop their kids from watching the show for whatever reason they choose. It has no effect on my viewing or enjoyment of the show. I just find it funny that people would have this kind of reaction to a kiss that would, from a technical standpoint anyway, probably be the tamest kiss the show has portrayed in its entire series run. If it offended you, it offended you. I just figured that the point at which you forbade your kids from watching the show would have come a lot sooner than this given the content of previous episodes.

Best part about this post is the fact that the show centers around people that are different (read: have special powers) and how they are conistently shunned, persecuted, lynched, etc. because of it. If you've watched the show up to this point, then we all have to assume you are sympathetic to their plight.

But, whoa, throw some sexual diversity into the mix and all bets are off. Words like "disgusting", "inappropriate", and "wrong" start getting thrown around immediately and with much fervor.

We've got kids being blindfolded, grandmas with their whites in a twist and bible being thumped over something that has been going on since the dawn of man and will continue to go on until the twilight.

I was really bothered by the scene where one of the characters is dragged behind a truck to death...but it was fitting to the story and I admire the writers for how they presented that much hatred in that town. Throwing in some experimentation in a girl's dorm room as part of the plot just makes Claire's character that much more complex.

Bottom line: If you are against anything you see in any television show, it's cast, time slot, network, etc. go somewhere else. Fans that stay don't want to hear about it.

Oka, I'm tempted to close this topic down as it's veered, drastically, away from the actual point and turned into a bash/counter-bash about homosexuality and any moral viewpoints that don't want to watch it.

I'm going to keep it open temporarily but only if it stays on topic. Any more of this nonsense, and this thread gets locked down just as nearly every other one like it has.

I agree with everyone on this post that thought that the girl on girl kiss was weird. It was definitely an attempt to grab more of the "male 15-30yrs" viewer base. I know I'm not alone when I say that if NBC doesn't stop this "little fling," I'm not watching anymore. Yeah, I'm Christian and way, way, Hetero. No, I don't live in TX.

*headdesk*

A ratings stunt wouldn't have been a brief kiss followed by an uncomfortable silence and an even more uncomfortable conversation.

A ratings stunt would have been a full-fledged, barely safe for PG TV, sexual encounter.